How are people not good with money?

Shefwedfan

My biggest problem is not saving, fairly decent with that

Its when I have any sort of money save I will splash out, so last month bought Solar PV and as soon as I have that done I am looking at the next "gadget" to buy.....:-)

antimatterx

I'm about 18 months working as a software developer and I'm on 32K. I reckon I'll be bumped up to ~40K in the summer otherwise I'll move and look for close to 50k.

HamSarris

antimatterx wrote: »

I'm about 18 months working as a software developer and I'm on 32K. I reckon I'll be bumped up to ~40K in the summer otherwise I'll move and look for close to 50k.

Make sure to quote the 140K Boards.ie average salary during your negotiation.

antimatterx

HamSarris wrote: »

Make sure to quote the 140K Boards.ie average salary during your negotiation.

I'll use it as a benchmark

Shefwedfan

HamSarris wrote: »

Make sure to quote the 140K Boards.ie average salary during your negotiation.

Who quoted 140k?

dotsman

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Did you read the thread or just quote my post?

I was replying to a person who seemingly hires and fires, mentors and manages as well...excellent person, they said a person with 10-15 years experience is not even close to 100k

You don't seem to be following this thread and just arguing for the sake of it. This is the post where you started aggressively arguing with me.

dotsman wrote: »

Practically nobody "a few years experience in IT" is on a six figure salary. For most, they hit it around the 10-15 year mark. Some will get there earlier; a tiny few will get there after 5 years.

Ush1

kenmm wrote: »

You would think that, wouldn't you?

Yes I would. Being an IT contractor myself and having over 10 years experience in the industry including hiring people.

kenmm

Ush1 wrote: »

Yes I would. Being an IT contractor myself and having over 10 years experience in the industry including hiring people.

So then you know the vast amount of people who are complete blaggers, who know f-all but still get paid roughly the same as people with real experience then?

Elessar

dotsman wrote: »

Despite all the talk, there is no shortage of "IT people" in Ireland. There is, however, a massive shortage of companies that know how to attract, manage and retain IT staff.

Absolutely this.

I've heard it said before and I think it's also true: There's no shortage of skilled IT staff in Ireland. There is a shortage of skilled IT staff willing to work for the wages on offer.

I.e. not all positions offer good money. I was quite taken back by some offers I was approached with on LinkedIn the last while. 15-20k less than what I would consider the current range. Not all, but a decent amount. But I think you put it better.

As a matter of interest, what do you think is the biggest problem with attracting and retaining staff?

Ush1

kenmm wrote: »

So then you know the vast amount of people who are complete blaggers, who know f-all but still get paid roughly the same as people with real experience then?

There's no blagging. You come out of college you basically know nothing. You've literally no professional IT experience. What they gonna blah about, their final project?

Sounds great, have 100k.

dotsman

Elessar wrote: »

Absolutely this.

I've heard it said before and I think it's also true: There's no shortage of skilled IT staff in Ireland. There is a shortage of skilled IT staff willing to work for the wages on offer.

I.e. not all positions offer good money. I was quite taken back by some offers I was approached with on LinkedIn the last while. 15-20k less than what I would consider the current range. Not all, but a decent amount. But I think you put it better.

As a matter of interest, what do you think is the biggest problem with attracting and retaining staff?

All three are linked, attracting the right people and managing them well will make it very easy to retain people; likewise, managing and retaining good people will attract more, making recruitment easy.


In terms of what to improve:

Attracting:

• Avoid recruitment companies where possible. Similar to Estate Agents, in the 21st century, they, more often than not, end up adding layers of miscommunication and miss-selling, add tremendous cost and cause frustration to both sides.
• Look to your existing staff - they are your best recruiters. They will have worked with some great people over the years, and head-hunt from there when you can. If they can't convince those ex-colleagues to join your company - why not? That is surely some of the best feedback you can get as to what you need to do attract talent.
• Don't offer low salaries/benefits - you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. You also pay a lot more for your recruitment as you have to spend a long time sifting through a huge pile of "monkeys" to fin the "least-monkey".
• When writing a job description, be honest and try to describe the actual job, not trying to use as many generic "terms" as possible. The more BS on the job description, the more BS you can expect from those applying.
• Don't list a dozen different tech skills the person needs to have. Have a minimum of 1 or 2 core techs (Java/.NET etc) that are crucial. Every minimum requirement you add drastically reduces the pool of candidates, often excluding people who would be brilliant and leaving you with the bluffers and odd person who might specifically match that tech-stack, but is far from the best candidate. You can list everything else as a nice to have, but training will be offered along with the ability to learn on-the-job.
• Offer training on any gaps. Seriously. Make that clear on the job spec. The amount of talented people who have bypassed a job description because they fear they mightn't have enough experience/skills to live up to expectations is unreal. Meanwhile, the bluffers and egomaniacs have no problem applying (and subsequently hurting your org).
• Avoid code tests. They don't work. If you do want to have a test and a score, use a simple aptitude test etc to rate their intelligence/ability to problem solve/ ability to learn tech.
• State the salary range on the job offer, and be honest about it. If you are not stating it, the assumption is that it is low. Or, if you do actually end up offering the required salary, you are not stating it because it is far higher than existing staff, and will cause problems down the line (no pay increase as employee is already at the top of the pay scale, tension from other team members when they discover employee is being paid more etc).
• Offer flexible hours/work from home etc.
• CVs, Interviews/Tests all offer a very simple insight into how well the person will work out (and often misleading). A Strong endorsement from people who have worked with them well that you know (and trust) is far better.

Managing (some already covered above, but)

• Ensure frequent training and support.
• Ensure people are matched to project/roles that suit their abilities and excites them
• Remove any politicians, egomaniacs, a$$holes, bullies etc from the team immediately. It is crazy how one negative team-member can destroy the atmosphere for the whole team, especially if they are in a position of authority.
• Help poor performers, but also move them out if it is clear they will never be able to contribute in a meaningful way as they will, over time, also hurt the team.
• Don't expect people to work late/weekends regularly.
• Be as, if not more, flexible with your people than you expect from them. If people want to work from home, or different hours, accommodate as much as is feasible.
• Reward well and reward regularly. Even small, simple things like a random day off/half day, night out, or going out for lunch can go along way to keeping morale high.
• Promote a strong team-spirit. From buddies/mentors, to regular social nights, to ensuring quieter team-members feel included to just having a relaxed, fun environment.
• Do regular performance review/appraisal, but not the BS HR one that most companies go with. Keep it simple, unique and focused for the person on how they can realistically grow/improve in their role.
• Likewise, performance is not some SMART Objective that you wrote at the start of the year and forgot about. Performance should be simple - how valuable is this person to the team? How much do they contribute? How much do they help others? How much do they help the atmosphere on the team? How much to they help make the team. The real question is - if building a team to start a new project tomorrow, is this person someone you would absolutely need, very much want, happy to have, give or take, or refuse to have on the team. Because that is your real "ratings" just there.

Retaining

• If you are doing the above, then it should be very simple to retain!
• When reviewing pay/bonuses, don't give the absolute minimum you can get away with. Saving the company 2 grand right now, could cost you a skilled, experienced team-member in 6 months time, but you are now faced with the massive blow to the project, and hit with recruitment costs, and the new person likely costing as much, if not more.
• Ensure that people have clear career path to grow - where do they want to be in 1/3/5-years's time etc. Sometimes, the company simply doesn't have any roles in that area- and fine, be honest in the communications, and some people will always leave because they want to try something different. But if those roles are something org has or wants to have, have a clear path that this person grow in to them
• Unhappy staff breed unhappy staff. Don't have unhappy staff. While some people are natural complainers/miserable, most causes of unhappiness are down to bad management. Instead of denying or vaguely promising to address the issue next year etc, address it immediately.

The above is just a few quick things I would start exploring if I was the CEO/MD/Head of HR etc.

kenmm

Ush1 wrote: »

There's no blagging. You come out of college you basically know nothing. You've literally no professional IT experience. What they gonna blah about, their final project?

Sounds great, have 100k.

I am talking about the < 3 year experienced or worse the 10 year experienced that know feck all..

JustAThought

maybe people are shyte with money and spend like lunatics get into debt because they believe that someone is going to call them straight out of college, or next month, and offer them 100,000 euro to turn up for a day job.

Ush1

kenmm wrote: »

I am talking about the < 3 year experienced or worse the 10 year experienced that know feck all..

The post I responded to said you can get 100k starting coming out of college.

sligeach

Maybe if they fall for such blatant scams as this.

SPECIAL REPORT: Irish Are Listening To Businesswoman And Billionaire Mary Lou McDonald And They're Raking In Millions From Home

https://investing-review.com/en/os/24/

Just came across this now, and didn't know where exactly to put it. There is so much wrong with this. I'm sure Mary Lou McDonald wouldn't be happy about it either.

Potential-Monke

Elessar wrote: »

As a matter of interest, what do you think is the biggest problem with attracting and retaining staff?

I don't have as detailed an answer as above, but from my experience the problem with retaining is that a lot of management of IT don't have a clue about IT. My friend, who is a co-director of a small networking and security company (survey, install and maintain networks in businesses), and his boss is constantly selling packages that don't meet the requirements, simply because he doesn't know enough about it. My friend is always disagreeing with him as he does the follow up and install, and the price goes up for 100% due to his bosses lack of knowledge.

My friend also ends up having to explain why a task that the boss thought would take x hours takes more, due to unforeseen problems (usually as a result of a bad initial survey, again). I've seen it myself in other, lower end IT jobs. The people in charge don't know how IT works, or at least the specific part that employee is paid to cover, and as a result can't understand why it takes x amount of time, etc.

But as above, it's also because there are so many bluffers out there that nearly everyone has been stung by a 'specialist' who has somehow managed to blag their way into a high paid position without the skills or knowledge to complete the job.

veryangryman

I know this is borderline a bump but boy did that thread go Off Topic.

Eoin Magee has a new book out based on his show. Anyonoe read it, any decent tips that the average saver may have missed?