Who Watches the Watchmen (Our Chit Chat Thread)

banie01 · 19-02-2020 11:33am

Lads I got a little UV torch delivered this morning and have spent the last hour and a half UV irradiating my watches and giggling like a baby!

It's the simple things :pac:

Passenger · 19-02-2020 12:19pm

banie01 wrote: »

Lads I got a little UV torch delivered this morning and have spent the last hour and a half UV irradiating my watches and giggling like a baby!

It's the simple things :pac:

Been meaning to pick one up for same. Which one did you get?

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 19-02-2020 12:22pm

Passenger wrote: »

Been meaning to pick one up for same. Which one did you get?

Pick up the cheapest "tooth whitening" lamp on ebay. Wont do a damn thing to whiten teeth but will charge lume. About 3 euro delivered.

banie01 · 19-02-2020 12:27pm

Sky Helpful Fencer wrote: »

Pick up the cheapest "tooth whitening" lamp on ebay. Wont do a damn thing to whiten teeth but will charge lume. About 3 euro delivered.

You mean that those little yokes don't "super-activate" the 44% bleach!
Dammit!
I thought I'd found the one trick that dentists hate :P

I actually had one of those and it did make the lume glow...
But!

I bought one of these https://a.aliexpress.com/_shOUKB and it really does amp up the effect as well as allowing me to pretend I'm with CSI by zooming the beam into the distance :pac:

Passenger · 19-02-2020 12:30pm

We're easily pleased.

Pablo_Flox · 19-02-2020 1:32pm

banie01 wrote: »

You mean that those little yokes don't "super-activate" the 44% bleach!
Dammit!
I thought I'd found the one trick that dentists hate :P

I actually had one of those and it did make the lume glow...
But!

I bought one of these https://a.aliexpress.com/_shOUKB and it really does amp up the effect as well as allowing me to pretend I'm with CSI by zooming the beam into the distance :pac:

I ordered the sane one a few weeks ago. Might have it in time for summer!

banie01 · 19-02-2020 1:34pm

Pablo_Flox wrote: »

I ordered the sane one a few weeks ago. Might have it in time for summer!

I ordered on the 11/1 so even with CNY and Corona virus taken into account the wait wasn't too bad.

shutup · 19-02-2020 2:06pm

Do Dawson jewellers not mind people meeting up in their shop to do deals from Adverts?

OldBean · 19-02-2020 2:11pm

shutup wrote: »

Do Dawson jewellers not mind people meeting up in their shop to do deals from Adverts?

I'm sure they would mind if you were just going in there, but if they can make a few quid from a verification, they'll be more than happy. Otherwise I'd be saying a cafe that's secure and you feel comfortable in.

Wibbs · 19-02-2020 2:16pm

OmegaGene wrote: »

you cant meet in there just to do a deal lol
i know keanes in cork and limerick will not do verificatiosn as it is not in their interest and i have heard of some shops charging for a valuation rather than saying yes it is real or fake

And I can 100% understand their position. In their shoes I'd be saying no, or asking for a fee. Given how many high quality fakes are around and how expensive the real deal is, a small fee verify and save thousands seems a small price to pay.

19-02-2020 2:21pm

Does a fee include a guarantee or is that all but impossible because you could rock back up a week later with a fake?

OldBean · 19-02-2020 2:24pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Does a fee include a guarantee or is that all but impossible because you could rock back up a week later with a fake?

I'd imagine outside of sending back to the brand, you wouldn't be getting a guarantee, more a verification based on their experience.

19-02-2020 3:01pm

It's going to get very dicey in the next few years.

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 19-02-2020 3:28pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It's going to get very dicey in the next few years.

Its going to get hard alright, even a watchmaker taking the back off might find it difficult without the same calibre side by side. Its only the rotor and bridge they can see a lot of the time. ETA based watches are open season hence the move to inhouse with a lot of brands.

At the end of the day there is a certain faith involved. Some chap found a datejust behind a wall, no history selling high value items, wants to meet on his terms only...leave it.

Vintage watches kinds feel like fakes anyway a lot of the time even when genuine and you would need to be a lot more experianced than me to tell. If the high end fakes take over they will distroy the watch industry.

Dawson are always very accommodating, they know that you might sell to them the next time or buy off them.

19-02-2020 3:50pm

Sky Helpful Fencer wrote: »

Its going to get hard alright, even a watchmaker taking the back off might find it difficult without the same calibre side by side. Its only the rotor and bridge they can see a lot of the time. ETA based watches are open season hence the move to inhouse with a lot of brands.

Yes, that's exactly my line of thought. Superfakes get better every year. If that trend continues it'll have serious ramifications.

Right now a $600 superfake is not fooling a watchmaker or indeed an experienced owner/buyer. But most who have seen the progression are nervous about where it is going. Maybe the fakers will hit a brick wall and struggle with the finer details (particularly with regards to movement) but I wouldn't count on it.

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 19-02-2020 4:08pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, that's exactly my line of thought. Superfakes get better every year. If that trend continues it'll have serious ramifications.

Right now a $600 superfake is not fooling a watchmaker or indeed an experienced owner/buyer. But most who have seen the progression are nervous about where it is going. Maybe the fakers will hit a brick wall and struggle with the finer details (particularly with regards to movement) but I wouldn't count on it.

They say it costs Rolex about 1500k to make a submariner, the rest is marketing, advertising, branding, AD profit and Rolex profit. A 1500 euro fake could reach a technical level where its indistinguishable from the real thing. I could see anti piracy measures like on currency making it into watches, holographic etchings or some sort of technology to try make it easy identify.

Word of caution however. It is very much in Watchfinders and AD's interests to overplay the fakes. Its scares people and makes them more likely to pay the AD or Trusted Reseller margins for piece of mind. This Horology House fake Daytona is major news and everyone is crapping themselves that they own a fake.

banie01 · 19-02-2020 4:15pm

Sky Helpful Fencer wrote: »

They say it costs Rolex about 1500k to make a submariner, the rest is marketing, advertising, branding, AD profit and Rolex profit. A 1500 euro fake could reach a technical level where its indistinguishable from the real thing.fake.

IMO that level has been reached with some 16610 models already.
The TC version ( who if rumours are to be believed is the guy behind Ginault) is by all accounts with very little further input are near indistinguishable from Gen.
The Horology house Daytona sparked fear, and while an experienced dealer will spot the fake.
Even the movement on that watch can accept gen parts!
That's frightening, and other Rolex in house movements have been copied to the same extent.

We are approaching a point where one can end up buying a mishmash of fake and gen and not know until a service.

It really is a case now of buying the seller more than ever IMO.

Cienciano · 19-02-2020 10:21pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Right now a $600 superfake is not fooling a watchmaker or indeed an experienced owner/buyer. But most who have seen the progression are nervous about where it is going. Maybe the fakers will hit a brick wall and struggle with the finer details (particularly with regards to movement) but I wouldn't count on it.

It's simple, the biggest give away are whats worked on by the rep makers. So, over time they evolve into something very good.
This one below is a €430 fake.

https://imgur.com/a/gbwQo3k

oxocube · 19-02-2020 10:29pm

Cienciano wrote: »

It's simple, the biggest give away are whats worked on by the rep makers. So, over time they evolve into something very good.
This one below is a €430 fake.

https://imgur.com/a/gbwQo3k

Thats a very good fake. You would not notice the differences without a loupe.

banie01 · 19-02-2020 10:31pm

Cienciano wrote: »

It's simple, the biggest give away are whats worked on by the rep makers. So, over time they evolve into something very good.
This one below is a €430 fake.

https://imgur.com/a/gbwQo3k

Christ!!!
Fine detail finishing, engraving finish, being a bit heavy with the gilding and gem retainers are about all that stand out on the movement there.

Date wheel font particularly on double digits seems to be different between the gen and the fake, but honestly if they weren't side by side I wouldn't spot it.

Cienciano · 19-02-2020 10:45pm

In 3 months the engraving will be improved. Don't forget, this in a watch that doesn't have an exhibition caseback.

banie01 · 19-02-2020 10:51pm

Cienciano wrote: »

In 3 months the engraving will be improved. Don't forget, this in a watch that doesn't have an exhibition caseback.

Exactly, the detail and effort in actual 1:1 copying is gone so far beyond just slapping a "Ronex" dial in a similar looking case.
The omega display case back stuff is getting closer and closer to gen aswell.

I've been banging on for months that it's a scary hobby to spend money in.this only confirms it because I'd be honestly hard pressed to place trust in even a qualified watch Smith spotting something with a swapped train , balance and dial given the quality in the pics you shared.

Cienciano · 19-02-2020 10:54pm

Patek have cloned movements too, don't think they're out yet for proper review. Apparently the print is already upgraded to engraving

https://imgur.com/a/OztvrUX

Wibbs · 20-02-2020 10:19am

banie01 wrote: »

Christ!!!
Fine detail finishing, engraving finish, being a bit heavy with the gilding and gem retainers are about all that stand out on the movement there.

The bit that jumps out for me is the balance and balance bridge.

banie01 · 20-02-2020 10:23am

Wibbs wrote: »

The bit that jumps out for me is the balance and balance bridge.

From reading around a bit last night, depending on the version of the clone those can be swapped for genuine.

That is bloody scary!

eljono · 20-02-2020 11:39am

Cienciano wrote: »

It's simple, the biggest give away are whats worked on by the rep makers. So, over time they evolve into something very good.
This one below is a €430 fake.

https://imgur.com/a/gbwQo3k

Wow, that's scary

OldBean · 21-02-2020 8:39am

There's been a scammer on r/watchexchange outed - interesting read through. Some people noticed the red flags previously and held off.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WatchExchangeFeedback/comments/f6avrz/ugulfwang_is_a_scammer/

https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/f6dunw/four_redittors_scammed_big_time_on_reddit/

Horrible thing to happen to those involved but a good educational read if you're purchasing watches online.

banie01 · 21-02-2020 9:20am

OldBean wrote: »

There's been a scammer on r/watchexchange outed - interesting read through. Some people noticed the red flags previously and held off.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WatchExchangeFeedback/comments/f6avrz/ugulfwang_is_a_scammer/

https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/f6dunw/four_redittors_scammed_big_time_on_reddit/

Horrible thing to happen to those involved but a good educational read if you're purchasing watches online.

If anything that highlights the danger of trust in a username or online persona.

12yo account that some people treated as being as "worth" something to the scammer.

The scammer took advantage of people's faith in account and Reddit karma and seems to have duped at least 4.

Anyone purchasing watches online that isn't via a protected payment method or escrow service from an "influencer" really is leaving themselves wide open to being scammed.

Whatever happened to trust but verify?

oxocube · 21-02-2020 11:41am

OldBean wrote: »

There's been a scammer on r/watchexchange outed - interesting read through. Some people noticed the red flags previously and held off.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WatchExchangeFeedback/comments/f6avrz/ugulfwang_is_a_scammer/

https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/f6dunw/four_redittors_scammed_big_time_on_reddit/

Horrible thing to happen to those involved but a good educational read if you're purchasing watches online.

From this thread. Really good advice when buying a watch online.

A legitimate seller should not hesitate to provide any or all of the following information:

One or more social media profiles

Phone number

Full name and address

Pictures of the watch next to a note with your name and today's date

Live video chat to check out the watch

A selfie in front of their house/building which matches the pictures for their address on Google maps

References from other people they have traded with

Use an escrow service (at the buyer's expense, or split the cost)

Eoin · 21-02-2020 11:45am

oxocube wrote: »

From this thread. Really good advice when buying a watch online.

A legitimate seller should not hesitate to provide any or all of the following information:

One or more social media profiles

Phone number

Full name and address

Pictures of the watch next to a note with your name and today's date

Live video chat to check out the watch

A selfie in front of their house/building which matches the pictures for their address on Google maps

References from other people they have traded with

Use an escrow service (at the buyer's expense, or split the cost)

The seller would want to be buying the buyer too - not a hope I'd be giving half that info out to someone I wasn't 100% sure was a genuine buyer.

Who Watches the Watchmen (Our Chit Chat Thread)

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