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new coronavirus outbreak China, Korea, USA - mod warnings in OP (updated 24/02/20)

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    #7202
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Snow Garden wrote: »
    Pathetic, at least own what you are suggesting or stop waffling about being prepared.









    What is above if not stockpiling?

    May I please ask what is wrong with stockpiling? Am I missing something? Is it a crime? Thank you' see my next post …


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    #7203
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    charlietheminxx wrote: »
    First of all, even if we had a small outbreak here - which is certainly possible or even likely at this stage - some people have existing medical conditions which mean they are higher risk and may need to avoid hitting busy places like supermarkets or pharmacies where there may be sick people.

    We had a few days of snow less than 2 years ago which resulted in supermarket stock depletion and people being stuck for essentials for a few days. Where is the harm in people buying an extra inhaler or paracetamol or insulin or freezing a loaf of bread just in case?

    So much in life is outside our control that taking small measures of personal preparation makes some people feel better about such situations, what exactly is wrong with that?

    Excellent post. Thank you. And you are right. As I have posted before on this, as I am housebound and live in a very remote place, I keep good stocks of all essentials in; food, catfood, OTC meds etc and my prescription meds. If - or when - a bad storm comes, it would be sheerly irresponsible and stooopid of me to run out of food etc when the ferries cannot sail, so I take care not to. I keep enough in for at least a month. Rather then be a burden on anyone .

    Why is this seen as such a sin by some? What is wrong with stockpiling ? If we do not get an outbreak, what harm done? Tins and dry goods will get eaten, frozen bread will defrost.

    This is not panicking. just taking sensible measures.


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    #7204
    tromtipp
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭tromtipp


    Most of us who live in the country routinely keep about three weeks worth of food and other essentials (including paracetamol) in the house, particularly in winter. You only need to experience getting locked in by weather or illness once to realise it's good policy. I've made sure my usual store cupboard staples are stocked up and replenished the cat litter I'd bought in case of a Brexit gitch, then used during the shortage last autumn. I hope we don't all end up in voluntary curfew, but I could cope if we did. Nothing panicky about it, just normal prudence.


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    #7205
    tromtipp
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭tromtipp


    very nearly SNAP! Graces7


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    #7206
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Snow Garden wrote: »
    Pathetic, at least own what you are suggesting or stop waffling about being prepared.









    What is above if not stockpiling?

    What is so bad about it? For some people this virus is a valid concern and big danger, if I was elderly or had any serious underlying condition I would absolutely stockpile for at least a month or two worth of food


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    #7207
    Drumpot
    Registered Users Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    Snow Garden wrote: »
    Pathetic, at least own what you are suggesting or stop waffling about being prepared.









    What is above if not stockpiling?

    You really don’t appear to be able to engage people without reverting to insults.

    Do you understand what stock piling means?

    Stockpiling: accumulate a large stock of (goods or materials).

    You quoted me and highlighted words from my post “few things”, “small steps”, “prepared” and “taking some measures”. How does that equate to stock piling?

    It appears you can’t engage people who don’t interpret what’s going on in the exact same mindset you do , so you presume anybody who doesn’t think like you is automatically the same scaremongering panicked person you have imagined in your head.

    You are incapable of civil discussion on this , so I would prefer not to engage you any further. Please stop misinterpreting my posts and making presumptions you can’t explain.


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    #7208
    Drumpot
    Registered Users Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    wakka12 wrote: »
    What is so bad about it? For some people this virus is a valid concern and big danger, if I was elderly or had any serious underlying condition I would absolutely stockpile for at least a month or two worth of food

    I’ve said it already in this thread. I have a rhespiratory condition even as I’m typing this. I’ve had pneumonia, flu and bronchitis the last few years. But some randomer on a forum thinks trying to take some precautions to mitigate my risk is “scaremongering” or “panicking”.

    Even if I was just taking precautions (without the rhespiratory condition) , I dont really understand how taking measures yourself and not hurting anybody else is the concern of anybody else. People are sharing their stories and views on this. And then there are people effectively adding little to the discussion, instead just trying to insult people and spoil conversation.


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    #7209
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Drumpot wrote: »
    I’ve said it already in this thread. I have a rhespiratory condition even as I’m typing this. I’ve had pneumonia, flu and bronchitis the last few years. But some randomer on a forum thinks trying to take some precautions to mitigate my risk is “scaremongering” or “panicking”.

    Even if I was just taking precautions (without the rhespiratory condition) , I dont really understand how taking measures yourself and not hurting anybody else is the concern of anybody else. People are sharing their stories and views on this. And then there are people effectively adding little to the discussion, instead just trying to insult people and spoil conversation.

    It is likely just lashing out out of a fear of the unknown. Nobody knows how dangerous this virus is, and nobody wants a pandemic to happen, so seeing other people 'stockpile' automatically makes you think it might be actually be a credible danger and you dont want to admit it's a danger so they tell people preparing that they are wrong/stupid to assert their belief that it is not dangerous. But in reality it looks like it will be a dangerous virus for some of us but not all of us, and so it is obviously unfair to insult and criticise somebody like you, with an underlying illness and valid concerns, when it is less of a danger for somebody like Snow garden who I presume doesnt have the same worries


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    #7210
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Stockpiling supplies is a no-brainer for me, coronavirus or not. Should have been doing it since we moved here. Floods or heavy snow would render all routes here impassable.

    If you or someone you care about is in a high risk category then it's a normal reaction to be concerned. Also bad experiences with the health services in this country are common enough that not everyone has faith in them.

    Easy to be cavalier about it if you don't perceive much risk to anyone you care about.


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    #7211
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 11,614 ✭ [Deleted User]


    My facemasks arrived today. I've 5 for me and 5 for herself. Not as many as I'd like but fingers crossed they never get used.


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    #7212
    Snow Garden
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    Drumpot suggested he was stockpiling specifically because of the threat of corona virus and when I asked him why, he denied it. I don't care if people want to stockpile supplies but corona should not be a reason to start. And scaring other people into stockpiling is stupid. The risk is way too small.


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    #7213
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Snow Garden wrote: »
    Drumpot suggested he was stockpiling specifically because of the threat of corona virus and when I asked him why, he denied it. I don't care if people want to stockpile supplies but corona should not be a reason to start. And scaring other people into stockpiling is stupid. The risk is way too small.

    Coronavirus has killed many immune compromised people in China. It is highly infectious. Drumpot has health issues that place them in a highrisk group, so to them it is a valid reason to stockpile, and to me that seems perfectly valid. Again, why do you even care? You say you dont but clearly you do if youre interrogating them, nobody is telling you to do anything, dont be scared by what others do, assess the risks yourself based on the word of government and reputable health bodies and make up your own mind


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    #7214
    Snow Garden
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Its always better to err on the side of caution when facing what could be a once in a lifetime pandemic.

    I care because posts like this scare people in doing stuff that is not necessary. There is no need to scare people. People have lost the run of themselves.

    Did anyone stockpile for SARS? That was 17 years ago and infected people in 29 countries.

    I am off to invest in face mask companies and make some money from this madness.


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    #7215
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,778 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Snow Garden wrote: »
    I care because posts like this scare people in doing stuff that is not necessary. There is no need to scare people. People have lost the run of themselves.

    Did anyone stockpile for SARS? That was 17 years ago and infected people in 29 countries.

    I am off to invest in face mask companies and make some money from this madness.

    The recorded death toll is currently more than twice that of Sars and the infected rate at probably 20 times more at this rate.

    Also SARS is the very reason people are panicking as it seems china and many other governments learned absolutely nothing from it.


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    #7216
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    SARS is less infectious.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/comments/f6fz7r/posterior_estimates_of_basic_reproduction_number/
    A report showed the R0 may be as high a 7 in Wuahn.But still, I dont get your point, SARS had potential to be a devastating pandemic and was one of the most serious international health concerns of our time.


    I'm not scared of this. Im 24 and healthy. But Im scared for my grandparents who are all over 75 with underlying conditions. A recent report from China showed that over 50% of those over 70 hospitalised with coronavirus died. I think it is completely valid to be stockpiling if elderly or ill, it is novel virus that currently appears very infectious and quite a lot more dangerous than flu, thats just how it appears, it may well be wrong but thats how it appears and people prepare based on what is currently known. Judging by the way you speak about this, I assume you are also relatively young and healthy, so why criticise those with valid reason to stockpile? I would fully believe my grandparents should begin to gather some food to reduce the amount of time they need to leave the house if a numebr of cases began to crop up in Ireland.


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    #7217
    BanditLuke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭BanditLuke


    Still a lot of people underplaying how serious this could get. I am happy the virus doesn't seem to have carried over to manland Europe (yet) to the same degree it has in Wuhan. No problem with buying in extra supplies and facemasks etc.. i did this myself many weeks ago better to be prepared than be involved in a free for all panic if it does take hold here.


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    #7218
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,843 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Snow Garden wrote: »
    I care because posts like this scare people in doing stuff that is not necessary. There is no need to scare people. People have lost the run of themselves.

    Did anyone stockpile for SARS? That was 17 years ago and infected people in 29 countries.

    I am off to invest in face mask companies and make some money from this madness.




    I think you may be losing the run of yourself!


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    #7219
    megatron989
    Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭megatron989


    Snow Garden wrote: »
    I care because posts like this scare people in doing stuff that is not necessary. There is no need to scare people. People have lost the run of themselves.

    Did anyone stockpile for SARS? That was 17 years ago and infected people in 29 countries.

    I am off to invest in face mask companies and make some money from this madness.

    Maybe if you could give a reason why we shouldn't stockpile some supplies, then we could all measure your position against everyone else's. Then we can all finally move on with the discussion and not have to read this same dribble page after page.
    Exactly what are the downsides, what harm would it do to us should we buy 2 extra cans of peas every once in a while?


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    #7220
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Snow Garden wrote: »
    I am off to invest in face mask companies and make some money from this madness.
    That boat set sail weeks ago.


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    #7221
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,145 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    From what I can gather, masks for the average person are pretty much a waste of money tbh. Most people dont get the correct one, dont know how to fit them properly or dont change them enough. Plus the increased demand is leaving healthcare workers and others in the actual affected areas without enough supplies.

    Much better planning for an extended period at home with enough food, toiletries and cleaning supplies for a couple of weeks if you feel better being prepared. That doesn't mean buying up a shops whole supply of water and toilet paper, just enough to not cause problems for anyone else if lots of people decided to do it.


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    #7222
    Snow Garden
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    megatron989 wrote: »
    Maybe if you could give a reason why we shouldn't stockpile some supplies, then we could all measure your position against everyone else's. Then we can all finally move on with the discussion and not have to read this same dribble page after page.
    Exactly what are the downsides, what harm would it do to us should we buy 2 extra cans of peas every once in a while?

    Simple. Stockpile for valid reasons. Corona isn't a reason to start.


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    #7223
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    From what I can gather, masks for the average person are pretty much a waste of money tbh. Most people dont get the correct one, dont know how to fit them properly or dont change them enough. Plus the increased demand is leaving healthcare workers and others in the actual affected areas without enough supplies. Much better planning for an extended period at home with food, toiletries and cleaning supplies if you feel better being prepared.

    Yes if these average person really wants to make a difference the best thing to focus on would probably be washing their hands correctly and frequently.
    It's a good habit to get in to even if this virus never makes it to Ireland.


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    #7224
    BanditLuke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭BanditLuke


    On a wider scale and going off on a tangent from the thead (sorry mods) i don't see a problem with stockpiling certain items tbh. All it takes is a major cyber attack or some other unseen event to send us back years. Seen a poster a while back tell us we are a net producer of food so we'll be alright whilst not realising that logistics and the transportation of produce is what will have us all starving not a lack of food.


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    #7225
    BloodBath
    Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    wakka12 wrote: »
    SARS is less infectious.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/comments/f6fz7r/posterior_estimates_of_basic_reproduction_number/
    A report showed the R0 may be as high a 7 in Wuahn.But still, I dont get your point, SARS had potential to be a devastating pandemic and was one of the most serious international health concerns of our time.


    I'm not scared of this. Im 24 and healthy. But Im scared for my grandparents who are all over 75 with underlying conditions. A recent report from China showed that over 50% of those over 70 hospitalised with coronavirus died. I think it is completely valid to be stockpiling if elderly or ill, it is novel virus that currently appears very infectious and quite a lot more dangerous than flu, thats just how it appears, it may well be wrong but thats how it appears and people prepare based on what is currently known. Judging by the way you speak about this, I assume you are also relatively young and healthy, so why criticise those with valid reason to stockpile? I would fully believe my grandparents should begin to gather some food to reduce the amount of time they need to leave the house if a numebr of cases began to crop up in Ireland.

    Where are you pulling these statistics out of?

    The R0 is falling daily. At no point was it anywhere near 7. It's estimated to be between 1.4 and 2.0 currently but probably lower. If it was anywhere near 7 the rate of infected would be growing exponentially.

    50% of those over 70 died? Again where are you getting these stats from. It's around 8% for 70-79 year olds and 15% for over 80's from the stats I can see.

    This is exactly the kind of scaremongering fake news we're talking about here and it's the same handful of people doing it no matter how many times they get called out on it.

    There's people coming to this thread looking for actual information.


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    #7226
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    BanditLuke wrote: »
    On a wider scale and going off on a tangent from the thead (sorry mods) i don't see a problem with stockpiling certain items tbh. All it takes is a major cyber attack or some other unseen event to send us back years. Seen a poster a while back tell us we are a net producer of food so we'll be alright whilst not realising that logistics and the transportation of produce is what will have us all starving not a lack of food.

    I'm not really sure what kind of cyber attack would disrupt the food chain in such a serious way.
    If you look into it you can see what a minuscule amount of calories the human body can survive on for several months.


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    #7227
    littlemac1980
    Registered Users Posts: 1,073 ✭✭✭littlemac1980


    What's with all this non-sense about people panicking? The vast majority of the posts I've read on this forum have been very sensible and reasonable. The only ones that strike me as dumb are those that are insisting that Covid-19 is no worse than the flu. That position has been clearly incorrect from the outset and anyone trying to maintain that at this stage is either trolling or needs to have someone help them understand the fundamental metrics - which even based on the "official" Chinese numbers are very easy to interpret vis-a-vis a comparative analysis. I wouldn't even be bothered responding to those posters at this stage. It's just mindless repetition without any rational basis.

    A previous poster mentioned MSM has been very slow to publish meaningful articles about the virus/outbreak/potential pandemic. I agree!

    The current situation has shown up the true nature of our now "Big Brother" global cyber community where information can now be rationed out via major Techological corporations and seemingly at their entire discretion.

    With how little MSM attention this is getting one might almost begin to wonder if the economic impact of the outbreak in China might somehow have a negative impact on Google/Facebook et al. share prices, how might that ever be possible? That would surely require the Chinese economy to be an integral (& sizeable) part of the Global economy. But even if that was the case, then there would also need to be some weird market mechanism whereby share prices could somehow fluctuate based on consumer/purchaser confidence. What a weird world that would be to live in, huh? People could get rich (and poor) simply through speculation... of course only in so far as the major Internet players could control the dissemination of information. It would make no sense to allow those type of companies to also be publicly floated companies right?


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    #7228
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    BloodBath wrote: »

    This is exactly the kind of scaremongering fake news we're talking about here and it's the same handful of people doing it no matter how many times they get called out on it.

    There's people coming to this thread looking for actual information.


    There are also those who dismiss the actual information when it's presented to them


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    #7229
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    wakka12 wrote: »
    SARS is less infectious.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/comments/f6fz7r/posterior_estimates_of_basic_reproduction_number/
    A report showed the R0 may be as high a 7 in Wuahn.But still, I dont get your point, SARS had potential to be a devastating pandemic and was one of the most serious international health concerns of our time.


    https://www.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/ is the sub reddit for wild speculation.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/ is the sub reddit for posts based on facts.


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    #7230
    wadacrack
    Registered Users Posts: 4,172 ✭✭✭wadacrack


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    There are also those who dismiss the actual information when it's presented to them

    You shared inaccurate data im sure.

    The confirmed case fatality ratio, or CFR, is the total number of deaths divided by the total number of confirmed
    cases at one point in time. Within China, the confirmed CFR, as reported by the Chinese Center for Disease Control
    and Prevention,9
    is 2.3%. This is based on 1023 deaths amongst 44 415 laboratory-confirmed cases as of 11 February.
    This CFR does not include the number of more mild infections that may be missed from current surveillance, which
    has largely focused on patients with pneumonia requiring hospitalization; nor does it account for the fact that
    recently confirmed cases may yet develop severe disease, and some may die. As the outbreak continues, the
    confirmed CFR may change. Outside of China, CFR estimates among confirmed cases reported is lower than reported
    from within China. However, it is too early to draw conclusions as to whether there are real differences in the CFR
    inside and outside of China, as final outcome data (that is, who will recover and who will die) for the majority of
    cases reported from outside China are not yet known.


    source: WHO situation report


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    #7231
    BloodBath
    Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    There are also those who dismiss the actual information when it's presented to them

    Like yourself?

    You are 1 of the people who has been called out for misrepresenting the numbers several times already saying the death rate was 12% or higher when in fact it's 2.3% of "confirmed cases" only at the moment with no estimate of unconfirmed recoveries accounted into that figure at all which means it's far below 2.3%


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