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What have we come to

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,464 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Bowie wrote: »
    You're changing tac now Bren.
    The buck stops with the Ministers. How much money and what it's spent on etc.

    Not changing anything Bee, it’s just your incorrect inference of my stance which is changing.

    You don’t seem to be able to understand the issue.


    And I’m getting a small bit tired of trying to explain it to you.:D


    It’s there in black and white and if you can’t figure it out.... I cannot help you, pal


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,012 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Exactly, so SF have got a big chuck of vote and now are running away from forming a government. It is on their onus to pull a government together....


    What have they done so far? they talked more to the press than to any of the parties

    Don't worry yourself, what SF do or don't do doesn't excuse FG/FF record on health.

    I believe they are speaking to everyone. They even got on the blower to MM.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,012 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Not changing anything Bee, it’s just your incorrect inference of my stance which is changing.

    You don’t seem to be able to understand the issue.


    And I’m getting a small bit tired of trying to explain it to you.:D


    It’s there in black and white and if you can’t figure it out.... I cannot help you, pal

    We were discussing what a new government might do and criticising the outgoing. You railed in with talk on managers and staff holding responsibility. We've clarified that now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15,752 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Bowie wrote: »
    Don't worry yourself, what SF do or don't do doesn't excuse FG/FF record on health.

    I believe they are speaking to everyone. They even got on the blower to MM.


    She rang MM and then ran out to tell the press all about it. I hope if she does get into power they dont send her into any negotiations in Europe or anywhere.



    Can you not actually see through the bulls**t? we are now how long since the vote and apart from press conf run by majority of SF on an hourly basis they have talked to none of the parties, not to Labour, Greens, FF or FG. If they really wanted to be in government they would get them all into a room and hash it out, so FG dont want to be in then FF and whoever.....that is what FF/FG done last time


    SF have no intention of going into government and Mary Lou is making sure none of the other parties will be able to deal with him when you see that messing going on.


    Why she not come out and say "yes rang MM, had a good call, we will talk again soon".....not a load of bulls**t and bluster


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,464 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Bowie wrote: »
    We were discussing what a new government might do and criticising the outgoing. You railed in with talk on managers and staff holding responsibility. We've clarified that now.

    In regard to the HSE?

    I didn’t ‘rail in’ I pointed out that discussing what might be done about the HSE without including all the stakeholders roles would be extremely foolish.


    You can understand that?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,875 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    She rang MM and then ran out to tell the press all about it. I hope if she does get into power they dont send her into any negotiations in Europe or anywhere.



    Can you not actually see through the bulls**t? we are now how long since the vote and apart from press conf run by majority of SF on an hourly basis they have talked to none of the parties, not to Labour, Greens, FF or FG. If they really wanted to be in government they would get them all into a room and hash it out, so FG dont want to be in then FF and whoever.....that is what FF/FG done last time


    SF have no intention of going into government and Mary Lou is making sure none of the other parties will be able to deal with him when you see that messing going on.


    Why she not come out and say "yes rang MM, had a good call, we will talk again soon".....not a load of bulls**t and bluster


    You should watch the news and read a decent newspaper sometime.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,012 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    She rang MM and then ran out to tell the press all about it. I hope if she does get into power they dont send her into any negotiations in Europe or anywhere.



    Can you not actually see through the bulls**t? we are now how long since the vote and apart from press conf run by majority of SF on an hourly basis they have talked to none of the parties, not to Labour, Greens, FF or FG. If they really wanted to be in government they would get them all into a room and hash it out, so FG dont want to be in then FF and whoever.....that is what FF/FG done last time


    SF have no intention of going into government and Mary Lou is making sure none of the other parties will be able to deal with him when you see that messing going on.


    Why she not come out and say "yes rang MM, had a good call, we will talk again soon".....not a load of bulls**t and bluster

    So what? You said they weren't talking to anyone.
    The SD's are out today talking on FG acting the maggot as regards talks. Politicians tell the public what they are at. That's part of their job.

    Both SF and the SD's are right. Any government with FF or FG is not any meaningful change.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,012 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    In regard to the HSE?

    I didn’t ‘rail in’ I pointed out that discussing what might be done about the HSE without including all the stakeholders roles would be extremely foolish.


    You can understand that?

    That's not true. We spoke on government you introduced Management and staff as (later clarified as 'part of') the problem.
    I didn’t realise Michael Mc Dowell, Bertie, Noel Dempsey, Enda Kenny, The Ringer,etc...etc... all worked in hospitals..........verrry interesting.


    Were there no medical staff and managers and Unions,and consultants and stuff?

    Had they no input into anything?

    Strange the private hospitals by a and large seem to work tickety boo?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,464 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Tony EH wrote: »
    Yes, it will take a long time to fix the problems that the PDs, FF, FG have caused in the health service over the years.

    One thing's for sure though. FFG certainly aren't going to bother their arses trying. ;)
    Bowie wrote: »
    That's not true. We spoke on government you introduced Management and staff as (later clarified as 'part of') the problem.

    The reply was to TonyEH, pal, nothing to do with your input


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15,752 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Bowie wrote: »
    So what? You said they weren't talking to anyone.
    The SD's are out today talking on FG acting the maggot as regards talks. Politicians tell the public what they are at. That's part of their job.

    Both SF and the SD's are right. Any government with FF or FG is not any meaningful change.

    Do you call a 15 min call talking?

    I would classify talking as sitting down in a room Nd trying to form a government ....she spent longer talking to the press today than the main person she need to talk to

    Has she talked to the Greens? Labour or anyone ?

    SF can’t form a government talking to RTÉ, someone should telL them or we will be here for years


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15,752 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    You should watch the news and read a decent newspaper sometime.

    Hahaha, you popped back up with more ideas how to cripple the country? :-)

    It’s all on a website called RTÉ.ie....Ps on the Mary Lou article see the only bit that made any sense was the FF politician at the bottom

    No shouting, no bluster just sense....maybe SF could learn something


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,012 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Do you call a 15 min call talking?

    I would classify talking as sitting down in a room Nd trying to form a government ....she spent longer talking to the press today than the main person she need to talk to

    Has she talked to the Greens? Labour or anyone ?

    SF can’t form a government talking to RTÉ, someone should telL them or we will be here for years

    You're coming across as desperate.

    No, idea, hopefully she announces it to the media.

    Gas.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,396 ✭✭✭Higgins5473


    I’d implement Slaintecare which all parties signed up to. It’s a FG based policy, but ye can have it.

    Where would you have built the hospital and what would it have saved? Don’t be a moaner.

    John, I haven’t been in office nor tried to be, so I don’t see the point in responding to your questions where a hospital should be built as your masters made the decision. You’re defending the health budget and minister and of those you have your tongue firmly up their sphincter muscle so I think you should be responding to my original query about throwing additional money does not achieve anything. You respond with some ignorant muck about how much was spent in health, defend it with some results in that spending not the money that was spent. You should think about joint the Healy Rae campaign.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15,752 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Bowie wrote: »
    You're coming across as desperate.

    No, idea, hopefully she announces it to the media.

    Gas.

    It’s ok, I was expecting a childish response


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,012 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    It’s ok, I was expecting a childish response

    I can see why.
    You asked me who SF were talking to after complaining they tell the media who they're talking to.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15,752 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Bowie wrote: »
    I can see why.
    You asked me who SF were talking to after complaining they tell the media who they're talking to.


    You seem to have some problem reading. Not just my posts but a few others so will leave you to it....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,012 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    You seem to have some problem reading. Not just my posts but a few others so will leave you to it....

    Show me what I'm misunderstanding. Thanks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,046 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    The reply was to TonyEH, pal, nothing to do with your input

    Bowie's point still stands though. When the party you shill for is criticised for their failings, you start looking for someone else to blame.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,464 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Tony EH wrote: »
    Yes, it will take a long time to fix the problems that the PDs, FF, FG have caused in the health service over the years.

    One thing's for sure though. FFG certainly aren't going to bother their arses trying. ;)
    Tony EH wrote: »
    Bowie's point still stands though. When the party you shill for is criticised for their failings, you start looking for someone else to blame.

    Incorrect Tony, in my posts I consider everyone with skin in the game to have some responsibility.

    If you consider a football team who go out and make a poor effort do you put all the blame on the manager or coaches?

    Unless you have an agenda you don’t.

    Most sensible and pragmatic folk include the effort of everyone in the analysis.

    You would do well to actually read my posts properly....... unless.... unless you have,like the football analogy ...an agenda:cool:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,046 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Incorrect Tony, in my posts I consider everyone with skin in the game to have some responsibility.

    I'm sure you do Bren. ;)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,464 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Tony EH wrote: »
    I'm sure you do Bren. ;)

    Took you a long time to come to that conclusion, Tony.

    But hey, better late than never.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,046 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Took you a long time to come to that conclusion, Tony.

    But hey, better late than never.

    It's taking a lot longer for it to reflect in your posts Brendan.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    i think a lot of the problem is the expectations millenials have. They seem to have this entitlement to live in a nice apartment in the centre of the city, probably because they grew up watching shows like Friends. Why should they? If others have more money and want to live there, they will do so. The rent reflects aggregate demand and aggregate supply for living in that area. I read that Niamh Horan in the independent complain about the cost of rent, turns out she's living in Grand Canal Dock! Why "must" a journalist live in one of the most expensive parts of town?



    If i was a young millennial (and i'm in my 30's so i'm not that old), i would rent a room out in Kildare at 600 per month rather than try to pay 1800 per month for an apartment in the city centre. Save diligently the difference, month after month until i have my deposit. Then, buying in the city is relatively cheap compared to renting, there are plenty of apartments around for 250k to 350k. Two people earning the average wage of 40k could buy an apartment in Dublin city quite easily. But it requires discipline, saving. The millennials want a sugar daddy taxpayer to take care of them. That mentality needs to change!

    Missed this comment last week so only replying to it now: The problem you're missing is that you're asking people to accept a massive drop in living standards over time. Most of the young people who are struggling now actually had an easier time making rent during the recession on part time incomes sharing with their fellow college students, those same people are now in full time careers and are being forced to move back home because rent growth has simply outstripped wages in every possible vector.

    Nobody is going to accept a decline in living standards, such as being asked to pay far more for the same apartment after several years without a corresponding rise in income, or being asked to moved away from their locality and social circle in order to afford rent at a similar level to what they've been paying for years, without kicking up a serious an very justified fight about it. The reason rents were more affordable back then vs now is down to a downturn in the property market and a wave of emigration among the generation which preceded this one, but it doesn't change the fact that people accept living standards to remain the same or improve over time and will never "just accept" that they have to get worse. And this should have been seen from a mile away by anyone in a position to make government policy.

    When I was in college, a duplex apartment in the city centre with three bedrooms was rented by a few of my friends for approximately €1,000 per month. Today, you're lucky to even get a one bedroom shoebox in a similar location for anything less than 150% of that at €1,500 (I know because many of my friends are actively looking). This is a level of inflation over a short period of time which is simply unacceptable in terms of how it impacts individual quality of life, and to put it bluntly, young people don't give a f*ck why it's happening, they just want a government to do something about it. FFG, by routinely blocking measures to reduce the cost of housing and increase the supply of affordable housing, have made themselves the enemies of that generation. And I know this personally because several of the apartments I'd be referencing here were in Stoneybatter, the same area in which the FG government explicitly blocked DCC from increasing the amount of social and affordable housing in the O'Devaney Gardens redevelopment by threatening to block the whole project if the majority of the new units didn't go to enriching the developer instead.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,464 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Tony EH wrote: »
    It's taking a lot longer for it to reflect in your posts Brendan.

    Hoy up any posts which have driven you to that conclusion,Tony and we can have a conversation.


    :confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,046 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Hoy up any posts which have driven you to that conclusion,Tony and we can have a conversation.


    :confused:

    If you think I'm going to waste time trawling through your posts Brendan, you've another thing coming. :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,464 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Tony EH wrote: »
    If you think I'm going to waste time trawling through your posts Brendan, you've another thing coming. :pac:

    Good man Tony, you got a bit of sense in the end.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,111 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Missed this comment last week so only replying to it now: The problem you're missing is that you're asking people to accept a massive drop in living standards over time. Most of the young people who are struggling now actually had an easier time making rent during the recession on part time incomes sharing with their fellow college students, those same people are now in full time careers and are being forced to move back home because rent growth has simply outstripped wages in every possible vector.

    Nobody is going to accept a decline in living standards, such as being asked to pay far more for the same apartment after several years without a corresponding rise in income, or being asked to moved away from their locality and social circle in order to afford rent at a similar level to what they've been paying for years, without kicking up a serious an very justified fight about it. The reason rents were more affordable back then vs now is down to a downturn in the property market and a wave of emigration among the generation which preceded this one, but it doesn't change the fact that people accept living standards to remain the same or improve over time and will never "just accept" that they have to get worse. And this should have been seen from a mile away by anyone in a position to make government policy.

    When I was in college, a duplex apartment in the city centre with three bedrooms was rented by a few of my friends for approximately €1,000 per month. Today, you're lucky to even get a one bedroom shoebox in a similar location for anything less than 150% of that at €1,500 (I know because many of my friends are actively looking). This is a level of inflation over a short period of time which is simply unacceptable in terms of how it impacts individual quality of life, and to put it bluntly, young people don't give a f*ck why it's happening, they just want a government to do something about it. FFG, by routinely blocking measures to reduce the cost of housing and increase the supply of affordable housing, have made themselves the enemies of that generation. And I know this personally because several of the apartments I'd be referencing here were in Stoneybatter, the same area in which the FG government explicitly blocked DCC from increasing the amount of social and affordable housing in the O'Devaney Gardens redevelopment by threatening to block the whole project if the majority of the new units didn't go to enriching the developer instead.


    Anyone who has ever bought a house faced a drop in living standards as they sacrified to buy a home.

    What is different is that the current generation want to keep the holidays, the Netflix subscription, the latte in the mornings etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,449 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Anyone who has ever bought a house faced a drop in living standards as they sacrified to buy a home.

    What is different is that the current generation want to keep the holidays, the Netflix subscription, the latte in the mornings etc.

    Agree about the lattes and wasterful expenditure, you have to sacrifice during the saving process. My brother just bought a house and the mortgage is significantly lower than the market rent on a virtually identical house!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,046 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Good man Tony, you got a bit of sense in the end.

    So not trawling through your gibberish makes sense to you as well Brendan. Good lad. :D


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,464 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Tony EH wrote: »
    So not trawling through your gibberish makes sense to you as well Brendan. Good lad. :D

    Yep, when you know you can’t find any proof of your accusations, it certainly does..

    It would indeed be a waste of time.

    Top man, Tony.


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