What have we come to

lawrencesummers · 18-02-2020 11:59AM

is_that_so wrote: »

The road to Health is paved with good intentions!

The road to power is paved with lies.

FrancieBrady · 18-02-2020 12:00PM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

While everyone here bemoans the ability of SF to deliver on their manifesto, therefore justifying why they shouldn’t be given an opportunity to change things I’m just going to leave this Here.....

https://img2.thejournal.ie/inline/2358184/original/?width=630&version=2358184

Didn't you know that fulfilling manifesto's is for the little people Lawrence, sure 'who reads manifesto's' as Regina might say?

Shefwedfan · 18-02-2020 12:03PM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

While everyone here bemoans the ability of SF to deliver on their manifesto, therefore justifying why they shouldn’t be given an opportunity to change things I’m just going to leave this Here.....

https://img2.thejournal.ie/inline/2358184/original/?width=630&version=2358184

Ahh the SF way, throw mud

The only reference we can show for SF in any sort of power is in Northern Ireland. It was over 1,000 days without a government in Northern Ireland mostly due to petty tactics by SF.....

I am no fan of FG and they wasted the opp they had but instead of firing mud why don't you stick up an image of something good SF have done?

Brendan Bendar · 18-02-2020 12:44PM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The road to power is paved with lies.

More auld hackneyed doggerel.

Everybody is a ‘liar, or ‘corrupt’ except of course those with the bullhorns and the placards.

lawrencesummers · 18-02-2020 12:51PM

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

More auld hackneyed doggerel.

Everybody is a ‘liar, or ‘corrupt’ except of course those with the bullhorns and the placards.

Do you use hackneyed in every post?

lawrencesummers · 18-02-2020 12:52PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ahh the SF way, throw mud

The only reference we can show for SF in any sort of power is in Northern Ireland. It was over 1,000 days without a government in Northern Ireland mostly due to petty tactics by SF.....

I am no fan of FG and they wasted the opp they had but instead of firing mud why don't you stick up an image of something good SF have done?

You are very badly read on politics.

FrancieBrady · 18-02-2020 01:03PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ahh the SF way, throw mud

The only reference we can show for SF in any sort of power is in Northern Ireland. It was over 1,000 days without a government in Northern Ireland mostly due to petty tactics by SF.....

I am no fan of FG and they wasted the opp they had but instead of firing mud why don't you stick up an image of something good SF have done?

:D:D Petty tactics?

Brilliant! The Indo will be marking you as a successful convert anyhow.

Brendan Bendar · 18-02-2020 01:20PM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Do you use hackneyed in every post?

Only when it’s hackneyed,a chara.

Tony EH · 18-02-2020 01:55PM

Nonoperational wrote: »

I've worked in health for many years now. The notion that SF, or indeed anybody else, can make any sort of discernible difference in a short timeframe is so completely out of touch it's crazy. It will take 10 years of joined up thinking to even start to make any change. 1000 extra consultants? From where? We badly need a broadly agreed plan like Slaintecare that is signed up to by all and makes a proper 10 year plan.

Yes, it will take a long time to fix the problems that the PDs, FF, FG have caused in the health service over the years.

One thing's for sure though. FFG certainly aren't going to bother their arses trying.

jimmycrackcorm · 18-02-2020 02:32PM

Tony EH wrote: »

Yes, it will take a long time to fix the problems that the PDs, FF, FG have caused in the health service over the years.

One thing's for sure though. FFG certainly aren't going to bother their arses trying.

And how is SF going to fix it?
Especially to fill empty consultant paid with their plan to tax consultants even more.

Shefwedfan · 18-02-2020 02:43PM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

You are very badly read on politics.

Yes the original issue was the wood pellets

But shutting down the government for 3 years and arguing over the Irish language, what else would you classify it but petty?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/10/pressure-mounts-northern-irish-parties-restore-power-sharing-sinn-fein-dup

At the core of the deal proposed by the British and Irish governments is the creation of two new “language commissioners” as part of a cultural plan to put Gaelic on a par with English while protecting Ulster British culture.

James Brown · 18-02-2020 02:53PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Yes the original issue was the wood pellets

But shutting down the government for 3 years and arguing over the Irish language, what else would you classify it but petty?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/10/pressure-mounts-northern-irish-parties-restore-power-sharing-sinn-fein-dup

At the core of the deal proposed by the British and Irish governments is the creation of two new “language commissioners” as part of a cultural plan to put Gaelic on a par with English while protecting Ulster British culture.

The tax payer being ripped off might not mean much to Fine Gael, but it ain't petty.

James Brown · 18-02-2020 02:54PM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

And how is SF going to fix it?
Especially to fill empty consultant paid with their plan to tax consultants even more.

You accept FF/FG have zero intention. Welcome on-board.

Shefwedfan · 18-02-2020 02:56PM

Bowie wrote: »

The tax payer being ripped off might not mean much to Fine Gael, but it ain't petty.

Did I say FG done a good job

I would like some of SF supporters instead of slinging mud to post something good SF has done, anything.

What have they done in Northern Ireland or the South that has made a difference?

James Brown · 18-02-2020 03:01PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Did I say FG done a good job

I would like some of SF supporters instead of slinging mud to post something good SF has done, anything.

What have they done in Northern Ireland or the South that has made a difference?

Not a supporter, prefer them to FF/FG.
They've not been in here. I like their intent to build social housing.
No mud in calling out FF/FG.
In the North they represented people without a voice and fought to get them that voice. They did more than FF/FG or Lab etc. for the Irish up there.

Brendan Bendar · 18-02-2020 03:03PM

Tony EH wrote: »

Yes, it will take a long time to fix the problems that the PDs, FF, FG have caused in the health service over the years.

One thing's for sure though. FFG certainly aren't going to bother their arses trying.

I didn’t realise Michael Mc Dowell, Bertie, Noel Dempsey, Enda Kenny, The Ringer,etc...etc... all worked in hospitals..........verrry interesting.

Were there no medical staff and managers and Unions,and consultants and stuff?

Had they no input into anything?

Strange the private hospitals by a and large seem to work tickety boo?

Tony EH · 18-02-2020 03:08PM

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I didn’t realise Michael Mc Dowell, Bertie, Noel Dempsey, Enda Kenny, The Ringer,etc...etc... all worked in hospitals..........verrry interesting.

Were there no medical staff and managers and Unions,and consultants and stuff?

Had they no input into anything?

Strange the private hospitals by a and large seem to work tickety boo?

What's the health situation like in Australia Brendan. Or did you move back to Ireland?

James Brown · 18-02-2020 03:09PM

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I didn’t realise Michael Mc Dowell, Bertie, Noel Dempsey, Enda Kenny, The Ringer,etc...etc... all worked in hospitals..........verrry interesting.

Were there no medical staff and managers and Unions,and consultants and stuff?

Had they no input into anything?

Strange the private hospitals by a and large seem to work tickety boo?

So if whom ever gets in does f*** all regards health you'll be cool with that? I suppose that's the kind of thinking gets FF/FG the vote.

Shefwedfan · 18-02-2020 03:13PM

Bowie wrote: »

Not a supporter, prefer them to FF/FG.
They've not been in here. I like their intent to build social housing.
No mud in calling out FF/FG.
In the North they represented people without a voice and fought to get them that voice. They did more than FF/FG or Lab etc. for the Irish up there.

They got dragged to the Good Friday agreement table, seemed to be happy with those people without a voice getting killed. Even to this day they have continued to lie

The US was the major player but FF had a huge part in the Good Friday, or is saving people's lives not counted anymore?

Brendan Bendar · 18-02-2020 03:18PM

Bowie wrote: »

So if whom ever gets in does f*** all regards health you'll be cool with that? I suppose that's the kind of thinking gets FF/FG the vote.

No,buddy, but I’m not thick enough to pump out the rhetoric that the problems of the health sector are all due to the politicians, that the hundreds and thousands of staff have nothing at all to contribute as to the running of the service.

I suppose that’s the kind of thinking that gets the bullhorn crews out with the placards knowing the horns will be blown by clowns who won’t look at the full picture.

Tony EH · 18-02-2020 03:25PM

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

No,buddy, but I’m not thick enough to pump out the rhetoric that the problems of the health sector are all due to the politicians, that the hundreds and thousands of staff have nothing at all to contribute as to the running of the service.

No, you're just thick enough to constantly shill for a political party from 9000 miles away and try to shift the blame onto nebulous factors, while calling everyone else with a different political POV from yours silly names.

Whether you like it or not, governments are responsible for putting in place measurements and methods that shape our services and they aren't immune from criticism for their decisions.

Idbatterim · 18-02-2020 03:29PM

lads given that it would be so easy to solve health , housing with just one competent person leading the department, why hasnt this been done here? :rolleyes:

You are up against an entire system and civil service that are entirely resistant to change is the answer!

People complaing about the housing , "oh we dont want development near us" . we dont want to pay LPT etc. you'd need a small dictator to get something done in this country and look what we have, our Taoiseach sees himself as a celebrity first and foremost! I dont blame him for wanting to sit on the opposition benches! Because this term for whoever forms government, is about results or obliteration!

Tony EH · 18-02-2020 03:30PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

lads given that it would be so easy to solve health , housing with just one competent person leading the department!

Nobody has said that however.

Idbatterim · 18-02-2020 03:34PM

Tony EH wrote: »

Nobody has said that however.

I see the journal full of these comments about harris, eoghan murphy etc. I am not saying they are great or even acceptable. But they are blatantly not the core problem and the core problem might not ever be addressed, but until the public identify who that is and start putting pressure on that area, rather than a single minister , in a system designed to benefit those that have created it, we go around in circles!

RTE that farce, is great at getting in ministers and pointing all the blame on them. please invite the unions and other key players responsible on, they would never do that though, would they?

Tony EH · 18-02-2020 03:40PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

I see the journal full of these comments about harris, eoghan murphy etc. I am not saying they are great or even acceptable. But they are blatantly not the core problem and the core problem might not ever be addressed, but until the public identify who that is and start putting pressure on that area, rather than a single minister , in a system designed to benefit those that have created it, we go around in circles!

RTE that farce, is great at getting in ministers and pointing all the blame on them. please invite the unions and other key players responsible on, they would never do that though, would they?

The ministers invite blame. They put themselves at the forefront and their decisions are rightfully called into question. There's nothing wrong with this and they don't deserve easy rides just for the sake of it.

But nobody is saying that our problems, especially re: housing and health, are going to be fixed easily. There's been too many years of damage going all the way back to Mary Harney for that happen.

What people are asking for, however, is for some party to at least attempt to alleviate some of the issues we find in the upper most important items that were listed in the exit poll. This would be preferable to the majority of people, rather than see the same old nonsense of riding the bike in circles until the tire goes pop.

James Brown · 18-02-2020 03:44PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

They got dragged to the Good Friday agreement table, seemed to be happy with those people without a voice getting killed. Even to this day they have continued to lie

The US was the major player but FF had a huge part in the Good Friday, or is saving people's lives not counted anymore?

Hardly dragged. In talks people have demands and all sides negotiate. I would argue their whole point was trying to get recognised and invited to the table.
Never said it was all SF, did I? You specifically asked about SF. SF played a major role.
It's been very troubling, regardless of anyone's politics, to have major political parties such as FF/FG continually attack the role of one side in a successful peace negation decades after it concluded. There's your petty and spiteful. I guess the pats on the back and photo ops are over.

James Brown · 18-02-2020 03:49PM

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

No,buddy, but I’m not thick enough to pump out the rhetoric that the problems of the health sector are all due to the politicians, that the hundreds and thousands of staff have nothing at all to contribute as to the running of the service.

I suppose that’s the kind of thinking that gets the bullhorn crews out with the placards knowing the horns will be blown by clowns who won’t look at the full picture.

You seem to let government off the hook. Therefore the next shower won't need to achieve anything and you'll accept that. That's my read Bren.
Who you blame is a side issue.

citysights · 18-02-2020 03:50PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

lads given that it would be so easy to solve health , housing with just one competent person leading the department, why hasnt this been done here? :rolleyes:

You are up against an entire system and civil service that are entirely resistant to change is the answer!

People complaing about the housing , "oh we dont want development near us" . we dont want to pay LPT etc. you'd need a small dictator to get something done in this country and look what we have, our Taoiseach sees himself as a celebrity first and foremost! I dont blame him for wanting to sit on the opposition benches! Because this term for whoever forms government, is about results or obliteration!

That made me smile the bit about the small dictator but you know what you might be right ( not that we want one of course) because someone is always moaning about something here in this country and some times it’s small unimportant stuff

BluePlanet · 18-02-2020 04:29PM

The reality is that people will hold SF and the SD to a much higher standard of public service than they have for any party hereto.

And when and IF they get into government and only half the programme for government (whatever that will look like) gets underway, those same posters and media personalities will be jumping up and down about it.
They should expect a YUGE roll eyes from me and anybody paying attention today.

James Brown · 18-02-2020 04:41PM

BluePlanet wrote: »

The reality is that people will hold SF and the SD to a much higher standard of public service than they have for any party hereto.

And when and IF they get into government and only half the programme for government (whatever that will look like) gets underway, those same posters and media personalities will be jumping up and down about it.
They should expect a YUGE roll eyes from me and anybody paying attention today.

That's the advantage FF/FG always have over every other party, (specifically junior coalition parties). FF/FG have bigger core bases who will vote for them no matter what and a floating voter that will not expect much of anything from either of them except keeping the lights on, most of the time.

What have we come to

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