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Discrediting old irish legends

2

Comments

  • #32
    Duchamp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 353 ✭✭Duchamp


    biko wrote: »
    They started work this morning down at city square
    They're pulling down the statues of our great grandfather's hero
    The new books said he wasn't such a great man after all
    And anyway remember that the times they are a-changing
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_bcoStFk4s


    Class album & band :cool: My first thought when I read Faces comment


  • #33
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,401 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    elefant wrote: »
    Both of these are extremely well publicised.
    This. I'm not sure what "legends" the OP thinks he is discrediting. Has anybody anywhere ever heard a story that Kavanagh was polite, gentlemanly and a pleasure to spend time with?


  • #34
    veryangryman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    elefant wrote: »
    Both of these are extremely well publicised.

    I don't recall the Yeats/daughter story being mentioned in school while we analysed his themes of unrequited love for Gonne Senior. Guess there's no marks going for it in English Paper 2. As for Kavanagh, yeah a little publicised but again, his poetry is what people discuss


  • #35
    elefant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,697 ✭✭✭elefant


    veryangryman wrote: »
    I don't recall the Yeats/daughter story being mentioned in school while we analysed his themes of unrequited love for Gonne Senior. Guess there's no marks going for it in English Paper 2. As for Kavanagh, yeah a little publicised but again, his poetry is what people discuss

    It was certainly discussed when I did the leaving, particularly as 'Easter,1916' directly names the man Maud Gonne chose to marry ahead of Yeats.

    The way we were taught the English LC course wasn't exactly revolutionary, but Yeats's quirks around his personal life and whacky spiritual beliefs were definitely covered.


  • #36
    Marcos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 716 ✭✭✭Marcos


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    Wasn't James Joyce a bit of a bollocks on the beer too? Starting fights and the like?

    When he was in Paris he'd be out drinking with Hemingway, then he'd start fights and get Hemingway to finish them!

    When most of us say "social justice" we mean equality under the law opposition to prejudice, discrimination and equal opportunities for all. When Social Justice Activists say "social justice" they mean an emphasis on group identity over the rights of the individual, a rejection of social liberalism, and the assumption that unequal outcomes are always evidence of structural inequalities.

    Andrew Doyle, The New Puritans.



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  • #37
    EmmetSpiceland
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,991 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    As for that member’s name change after “closing” their account, I have no idea why that happened.

    Possibly it’s to scramble any searches for their original “handle”? I wouldn’t expect any explanations to be forthcoming anytime soon.

    “It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be” - A. Dumbledore

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



  • #38
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    There's a bit of chicken-and-egg stuff when it comes to artists and substance abuse issues.

    The lifestyle of being a full-time artist lends itself to lots of downtime and socialising...and drinking.

    People with more stable 9-to-5 jobs don't really have the free time to be going to the pub every night, or the freedom to be getting out of bed at 11am hungover on a Wednesday.

    This was as true in 1850 and 1950 as it is today.


  • #39
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,704 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    EmmetSpiceland wrote: »
    As for that member’s name change after “closing” their account, I have no idea why that happened.

    Possibly it’s to scramble any searches for their original “handle”?


    Mod

    This is what happens once a GDPR request has been processed.

    I've removed a number of off topic posts from this thread now move on from this please

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



  • #40
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    I think Shane McGowan claimed that Kavanagh mooned after his mother, a model, in a slightly creepy way. He does seem to have been a fairly abrasive guy, but that's people from Monaghan for you.

    John B Keane came off as a good natured drunk, there's footage on the internet.

    From memory the Rocky Road to Dublin, the film from the 60s has footage of some of our literary or artistic figures from the time taking a piss in the street, probably the worse for wear. I can't remember who it showed though.


  • #41
    Lollipops23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,420 ✭✭✭Lollipops23


    CrankyHaus wrote: »

    John B Keane came off as a good natured drunk, there's footage on the internet.

    There's a wonderful piece somewhere showing his wife saying how they hate when he quits drinking and that they beg him to take it back up again as he was so unbearable off the gargle.


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  • #42
    veryangryman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    Lollipops23 wrote: »
    There's a wonderful piece somewhere showing his wife saying how they hate when he quits drinking and that they beg him to take it back up again as he was so unbearable off the gargle.

    A sad reflection of how life was at the time that one would be encouraged/coerced to keep on the substance.


  • #43
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    veryangryman wrote: »
    It's not well publicised that Yeats proposed to Maud Gonnes daughter as well.

    Or that Kavanagh could be a bowsie at times to get his work out.

    James Joyce hardly ever got caught fingering a young wan in the jacks or the likes?

    I heard Phil Lynott was on heroin. Am I doing it right??


  • #44
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,365 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    veryangryman wrote: »
    A sad reflection of how life was at the time that one would be encouraged/coerced to keep on the substance.

    Nothing to do with life at the time more that he was an awful grumpy bollix when he wasn't drinking.


  • #45
    Lollipops23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,420 ✭✭✭Lollipops23


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Nothing to do with life at the time more that he was an awful grumpy bollix when he wasn't drinking.

    It certainly seemed like that tbh; his wife seemed very good humoured about it all.


  • #46
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Another fact that often gets overlooked is the hard work and intelligence behind the drink, drugs, dissolute lifestyles.

    Shane McGowan won a literature scholarship to Westminster school, he fused punk and trad music to invent a new genre of music.

    Mike Scott of the Waterboy went to Edinburgh University to study English literature and philosophy, in the 1970s you would have needed to be at the top academically to offered a place, he is also a multi-instrumentalist and successful musician.


    There are hundreds of examples like that.


  • #47
    housetypeb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭housetypeb


    When I was younger I always thought a bit less of Cuchuliann for using the the Gae Bolga to defeat Ferdia at the ford, it smacked of dishonor, and desperation.
    Now that's how you discredit an old legend.


  • #48
    the purple tin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,943 ✭✭✭✭the purple tin


    housetypeb wrote: »
    When I was younger I always thought a bit less of Cuchuliann for using the the Gae Bolga to defeat Ferdia at the ford, it smacked of dishonor, and desperation.
    Now that's how you discredit an old legend.
    Ah like he had to do something, the fight would have went on forever otherwise.


  • #49
    ShamNNspace
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,192 ✭✭✭ShamNNspace


    CrankyHaus wrote: »
    I think Shane McGowan claimed that Kavanagh mooned after his mother, a model, in a slightly creepy way. He does seem to have been a fairly abrasive guy, but that's people from Monaghan for you.

    John B Keane came off as a good natured drunk, there's footage on the internet.

    From memory the Rocky Road to Dublin, the film from the 60s has footage of some of our literary or artistic figures from the time taking a piss in the street, probably the worse for wear. I can't remember who it showed though.

    I've never heard of John B being described as a drunk.. Whether of the good natured type or otherwise


  • #50
    farmchoice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭farmchoice


    veryangryman wrote: »
    I don't recall the Yeats/daughter story being mentioned in school while we analysed his themes of unrequited love for Gonne Senior. Guess there's no marks going for it in English Paper 2. As for Kavanagh, yeah a little publicised but again, his poetry is what people discuss


    well, we learned all about it in junior cert english in 1992, the poem yeat's wrote about maude gonne's daughter isult was on the junior cert syllabus.


  • #51
    SnazzyPig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 327 ✭✭SnazzyPig


    CrankyHaus wrote: »
    From memory the Rocky Road to Dublin, the film from the 60s has footage of some of our literary or artistic figures from the time taking a piss in the street, probably the worse for wear. I can't remember who it showed though.

    I think that's Kavanagh, Flann O'Brien and Anthony Cronin after a night on the town.


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  • #52
    Marcos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 716 ✭✭✭Marcos


    SnazzyPig wrote: »
    I think that's Kavanagh, Flann O'Brien and Anthony Cronin after a night on the town.

    Sounds like the first ever Bloomsday to me. They started it by going off on a literary pub crawl around areas mentioned in the book. There's even some footage online

    .

    When most of us say "social justice" we mean equality under the law opposition to prejudice, discrimination and equal opportunities for all. When Social Justice Activists say "social justice" they mean an emphasis on group identity over the rights of the individual, a rejection of social liberalism, and the assumption that unequal outcomes are always evidence of structural inequalities.

    Andrew Doyle, The New Puritans.



  • #53
    SnazzyPig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 327 ✭✭SnazzyPig


    Marcos wrote: »
    Sounds like the first ever Bloomsday to me. They started it by going off on a literary pub crawl around areas mentioned in the book. There's even some footage online

    .

    Yes, it was the first Bloomsday, celebrated on a whim. I think it is mentioned in Anthony Cronin's memoir 'Dead As Doornails'.


  • #54
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    In this account of life in post-war literary Dublin, Anthony Cronin writes of the frustrations and pathologies of this generation: the excess of drink; the shortage of sex; the insecurity and begrudgery; the limitations of cultural life in mid-century Ireland, and the bittersweet pull of exile.

    Ireland sounds like a delightful place in the 1950s


  • #55
    Conall Cernach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,999 ✭✭✭Conall Cernach


    housetypeb wrote: »
    When I was younger I always thought a bit less of Cuchuliann for using the the Gae Bolga to defeat Ferdia at the ford, it smacked of dishonor, and desperation.
    Now that's how you discredit an old legend.
    One version I heard is that he was disarmed and called for a spear from his charioteer, Laeg, who tossed him the Gae Bolga. It was only when he had cast it at Ferdia that Cú Chulainn realised it was the Gae Bolga.


    Mind you I am an Armagh man originally who was reared near Dundalk so there could be some bias involved there.


  • #56
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    mariaalice wrote: »
    In this account of life in post-war literary Dublin, Anthony Cronin writes of the frustrations and pathologies of this generation: the excess of drink; the shortage of sex; the insecurity and begrudgery; the limitations of cultural life in mid-century Ireland, and the bittersweet pull of exile.

    Ireland sounds like a delightful place in the 1950s

    Sounds like the lives of some of the current affairs regulars.


  • #57
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    Conall Cernach wrote: »
    One version I heard is that he was disarmed and called for a spear from his charioteer, Laeg, who tossed him the Gae Bolga. It was only when he had cast it at Ferdia that Cú Chulainn realised it was the Gae Bolga.


    Mind you I am an Armagh man originally who was reared near Dundalk so there could be some bias involved there.

    There was a second charioteer who was spotted on the grassy knoll nearby, there are a lot of outstanding questions that were never answered about that day.


  • #58
    Hangdogroad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,906 ✭✭✭Hangdogroad


    Marjorie Chubby Sodium wrote: »
    I was 23 when he died. Shared the Inniskeen bus with him many times in my youth.

    He spent at least the last thirty years of his life in Dublin.


  • #59
    Rufeo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 503 ✭✭✭Rufeo


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    I heard Phil Lynott was on heroin. Am I doing it right??

    You're supposed to add in, "but that's people from Dublin for you".

    Seriously what is the point of this thread. Typical begrudging tripe.


  • #60
    fryup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    how about that mad nutter Matt Talbot walking the streets wrapped in chains and kittens in his coat pockets....saintly man? he was in need of professional help ffs!

    only in Ireland would they name a bridge after such a person


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  • #61
    Esel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,808 ✭✭✭✭Esel
    Not Your Ornery Onager


    fryup wrote: »
    how about that mad nutter Matt Talbot walking the streets wrapped in chains and kittens in his coat pockets....saintly man? he was in need of professional help ffs!

    only in Ireland would they name a bridge after such a person
    I think you need to build a bridge... :)

    Not your ornery onager



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