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Discrediting old irish legends

veryangryman

It's not well publicised that Yeats proposed to Maud Gonnes daughter as well.

Or that Kavanagh could be a bowsie at times to get his work out.

James Joyce hardly ever got caught fingering a young wan in the jacks or the likes?

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Duchamp

biko wrote: »

They started work this morning down at city square
They're pulling down the statues of our great grandfather's hero
The new books said he wasn't such a great man after all
And anyway remember that the times they are a-changing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_bcoStFk4s

Class album & band :cool: My first thought when I read Faces comment

Peregrinus

elefant wrote: »

Both of these are extremely well publicised.

This. I'm not sure what "legends" the OP thinks he is discrediting. Has anybody anywhere ever heard a story that Kavanagh was polite, gentlemanly and a pleasure to spend time with?

veryangryman

elefant wrote: »

Both of these are extremely well publicised.

I don't recall the Yeats/daughter story being mentioned in school while we analysed his themes of unrequited love for Gonne Senior. Guess there's no marks going for it in English Paper 2. As for Kavanagh, yeah a little publicised but again, his poetry is what people discuss

elefant

veryangryman wrote: »

I don't recall the Yeats/daughter story being mentioned in school while we analysed his themes of unrequited love for Gonne Senior. Guess there's no marks going for it in English Paper 2. As for Kavanagh, yeah a little publicised but again, his poetry is what people discuss

It was certainly discussed when I did the leaving, particularly as 'Easter,1916' directly names the man Maud Gonne chose to marry ahead of Yeats.

The way we were taught the English LC course wasn't exactly revolutionary, but Yeats's quirks around his personal life and whacky spiritual beliefs were definitely covered.

Marcos

Wompa1 wrote: »

Wasn't James Joyce a bit of a bollocks on the beer too? Starting fights and the like?

When he was in Paris he'd be out drinking with Hemingway, then he'd start fights and get Hemingway to finish them!

EmmetSpiceland

As for that member’s name change after “closing” their account, I have no idea why that happened.

Possibly it’s to scramble any searches for their original “handle”? I wouldn’t expect any explanations to be forthcoming anytime soon.

seamus

There's a bit of chicken-and-egg stuff when it comes to artists and substance abuse issues.

The lifestyle of being a full-time artist lends itself to lots of downtime and socialising...and drinking.

People with more stable 9-to-5 jobs don't really have the free time to be going to the pub every night, or the freedom to be getting out of bed at 11am hungover on a Wednesday.

This was as true in 1850 and 1950 as it is today.

Ten of Swords

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

As for that member’s name change after “closing” their account, I have no idea why that happened.

Possibly it’s to scramble any searches for their original “handle”?

Mod

This is what happens once a GDPR request has been processed.

I've removed a number of off topic posts from this thread now move on from this please

CrankyHaus

I think Shane McGowan claimed that Kavanagh mooned after his mother, a model, in a slightly creepy way. He does seem to have been a fairly abrasive guy, but that's people from Monaghan for you.

John B Keane came off as a good natured drunk, there's footage on the internet.

From memory the Rocky Road to Dublin, the film from the 60s has footage of some of our literary or artistic figures from the time taking a piss in the street, probably the worse for wear. I can't remember who it showed though.

Lollipops23

CrankyHaus wrote: »

John B Keane came off as a good natured drunk, there's footage on the internet.

There's a wonderful piece somewhere showing his wife saying how they hate when he quits drinking and that they beg him to take it back up again as he was so unbearable off the gargle.

veryangryman

Lollipops23 wrote: »

There's a wonderful piece somewhere showing his wife saying how they hate when he quits drinking and that they beg him to take it back up again as he was so unbearable off the gargle.

A sad reflection of how life was at the time that one would be encouraged/coerced to keep on the substance.

weldoninhio

veryangryman wrote: »

It's not well publicised that Yeats proposed to Maud Gonnes daughter as well.

Or that Kavanagh could be a bowsie at times to get his work out.

James Joyce hardly ever got caught fingering a young wan in the jacks or the likes?

I heard Phil Lynott was on heroin. Am I doing it right??

ohnonotgmail

veryangryman wrote: »

A sad reflection of how life was at the time that one would be encouraged/coerced to keep on the substance.

Nothing to do with life at the time more that he was an awful grumpy bollix when he wasn't drinking.

Lollipops23

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Nothing to do with life at the time more that he was an awful grumpy bollix when he wasn't drinking.

It certainly seemed like that tbh; his wife seemed very good humoured about it all.

[Deleted User]

Another fact that often gets overlooked is the hard work and intelligence behind the drink, drugs, dissolute lifestyles.

Shane McGowan won a literature scholarship to Westminster school, he fused punk and trad music to invent a new genre of music.

Mike Scott of the Waterboy went to Edinburgh University to study English literature and philosophy, in the 1970s you would have needed to be at the top academically to offered a place, he is also a multi-instrumentalist and successful musician.

There are hundreds of examples like that.

housetypeb

When I was younger I always thought a bit less of Cuchuliann for using the the Gae Bolga to defeat Ferdia at the ford, it smacked of dishonor, and desperation.
Now that's how you discredit an old legend.

the purple tin

housetypeb wrote: »

When I was younger I always thought a bit less of Cuchuliann for using the the Gae Bolga to defeat Ferdia at the ford, it smacked of dishonor, and desperation.
Now that's how you discredit an old legend.

Ah like he had to do something, the fight would have went on forever otherwise.

ShamNNspace

CrankyHaus wrote: »

I think Shane McGowan claimed that Kavanagh mooned after his mother, a model, in a slightly creepy way. He does seem to have been a fairly abrasive guy, but that's people from Monaghan for you.

John B Keane came off as a good natured drunk, there's footage on the internet.

From memory the Rocky Road to Dublin, the film from the 60s has footage of some of our literary or artistic figures from the time taking a piss in the street, probably the worse for wear. I can't remember who it showed though.

I've never heard of John B being described as a drunk.. Whether of the good natured type or otherwise

farmchoice

veryangryman wrote: »

I don't recall the Yeats/daughter story being mentioned in school while we analysed his themes of unrequited love for Gonne Senior. Guess there's no marks going for it in English Paper 2. As for Kavanagh, yeah a little publicised but again, his poetry is what people discuss

well, we learned all about it in junior cert english in 1992, the poem yeat's wrote about maude gonne's daughter isult was on the junior cert syllabus.

SnazzyPig

CrankyHaus wrote: »

From memory the Rocky Road to Dublin, the film from the 60s has footage of some of our literary or artistic figures from the time taking a piss in the street, probably the worse for wear. I can't remember who it showed though.

I think that's Kavanagh, Flann O'Brien and Anthony Cronin after a night on the town.

Marcos

SnazzyPig wrote: »

I think that's Kavanagh, Flann O'Brien and Anthony Cronin after a night on the town.

Sounds like the first ever Bloomsday to me. They started it by going off on a literary pub crawl around areas mentioned in the book. There's even some footage online

SnazzyPig

Marcos wrote: »

Sounds like the first ever Bloomsday to me. They started it by going off on a literary pub crawl around areas mentioned in the book. There's even some footage online

.

Yes, it was the first Bloomsday, celebrated on a whim. I think it is mentioned in Anthony Cronin's memoir 'Dead As Doornails'.

[Deleted User]

In this account of life in post-war literary Dublin, Anthony Cronin writes of the frustrations and pathologies of this generation: the excess of drink; the shortage of sex; the insecurity and begrudgery; the limitations of cultural life in mid-century Ireland, and the bittersweet pull of exile.

Ireland sounds like a delightful place in the 1950s

Conall Cernach

housetypeb wrote: »

When I was younger I always thought a bit less of Cuchuliann for using the the Gae Bolga to defeat Ferdia at the ford, it smacked of dishonor, and desperation.
Now that's how you discredit an old legend.

One version I heard is that he was disarmed and called for a spear from his charioteer, Laeg, who tossed him the Gae Bolga. It was only when he had cast it at Ferdia that Cú Chulainn realised it was the Gae Bolga.

Mind you I am an Armagh man originally who was reared near Dundalk so there could be some bias involved there.

JohnnyFlash

mariaalice wrote: »

In this account of life in post-war literary Dublin, Anthony Cronin writes of the frustrations and pathologies of this generation: the excess of drink; the shortage of sex; the insecurity and begrudgery; the limitations of cultural life in mid-century Ireland, and the bittersweet pull of exile.

Ireland sounds like a delightful place in the 1950s

Sounds like the lives of some of the current affairs regulars.

Ipso

Conall Cernach wrote: »

One version I heard is that he was disarmed and called for a spear from his charioteer, Laeg, who tossed him the Gae Bolga. It was only when he had cast it at Ferdia that Cú Chulainn realised it was the Gae Bolga.

Mind you I am an Armagh man originally who was reared near Dundalk so there could be some bias involved there.

There was a second charioteer who was spotted on the grassy knoll nearby, there are a lot of outstanding questions that were never answered about that day.

Hangdogroad

Marjorie Chubby Sodium wrote: »

I was 23 when he died. Shared the Inniskeen bus with him many times in my youth.

He spent at least the last thirty years of his life in Dublin.

Rufeo

weldoninhio wrote: »

I heard Phil Lynott was on heroin. Am I doing it right??

You're supposed to add in, "but that's people from Dublin for you".

Seriously what is the point of this thread. Typical begrudging tripe.

fryup

how about that mad nutter Matt Talbot walking the streets wrapped in chains and kittens in his coat pockets....saintly man? he was in need of professional help ffs!

only in Ireland would they name a bridge after such a person

Esel

fryup wrote: »

how about that mad nutter Matt Talbot walking the streets wrapped in chains and kittens in his coat pockets....saintly man? he was in need of professional help ffs!

only in Ireland would they name a bridge after such a person

I think you need to build a bridge...