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new coronavirus outbreak China, Korea, USA - mod warnings in OP (updated 24/02/20)

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Comments

  • #6782
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    Funny till you consider the economic knock on impacts; and you wonder what else China produces that perhaps we can’t live without so much of.

    Fewer products means fewer shipments. Supply chain jobs. Means fewer sales. Service jobs. Means less VAT. Public jobs.

    In Korea half of one of the worlds largest car plants has shut down for lack of parts. Workers without hours in both China and Korea now. How does this affect us? Well, lots of these people travel for their holidays or send their kids to study abroad. Bye bye to that revenue.

    The economic impacts of this will be ginormous. And if China insists on going for their 6% growth target they could put everyone back to work before the virus is controlled.

    Simply too many eggs in the one basket, especially when the basket is a communist dictatorship where some people have bad habits that can cause bat soup fever to turn global pandemic

    I hope a lesson is learned!


  • #6783
    Nijmegen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Simply too many eggs in the one basket, especially when the basket is a communist dictatorship where some people have bad habits that can cause bat soup fever to turn global pandemic

    I hope a lesson is learned!

    Joys of living in a globalised world. That trade dependency also brings relative peace and prosperity. This is the downside.


  • #6784
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Nonoperational wrote: »
    The interesting data is from Europe where the first cases are a few weeks old now. Those predicting disaster here may have been a touch premature. Who would have thought.

    Its always better to err on the side of caution when facing what could be a once in a lifetime pandemic. Those who got masks early were smart, its much harder to get the right kind of mask now. Stocking up has no real penalty as youll eat the stuff sometime. Anyway here is how you dont err on the side of caution:

    https://www.sbs.com.au/news/fears-as-cruise-ship-passengers-scatter-take-cambodia-bus-tours-without-full-health-checks

    Send a load of potentially infectious people out on bus tours


  • #6785
    silverharp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,854 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    It will add weight to the idea that the US should decouple from China. The US could focus on South America and India

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • #6786
    Nonoperational
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Its always better to err on the side of caution when facing what could be a once in a lifetime pandemic. Those who got masks early were smart, its much harder to get the right kind of mask now. Stocking up has no real penalty as youll eat the stuff sometime. Anyway here is how you dont err on the side of caution:

    https://www.sbs.com.au/news/fears-as-cruise-ship-passengers-scatter-take-cambodia-bus-tours-without-full-health-checks

    Send a load of potentially infectious people out on bus tours

    Some people here weren't erring on the side of caution. I have no issue with that. We should of course be cautious. They were presenting clueless nonsense as fact and portraying themselves as exerts, quoting youtube videos and opinion pieces with absolute certainty as to their veracity. Those youtubers have made a pretty penny feeding on it.


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  • #6787
    ardinn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,246 ✭✭✭ardinn


    This guy who was on sky a lot is now confirmed - he is a diabetic too - They seem like a lovely couple, hope they will be ok.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1229666495564787715?s=20
    images.jpg
    http://slaneyfishing.com




  • #6788
    SeaBreezes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    Nonoperational wrote: »
    Some people here weren't erring on the side of caution. I have no issue with that. We should of course be cautious. They were presenting clueless nonsense as fact and portraying themselves as exerts, quoting youtube videos and opinion pieces with absolute certainty as to their veracity. Those youtubers have made a pretty penny feeding on it.

    Funnily enough that's exactly why I come here, to a forum, of anonymous people, on the internet....

    There's sooo much more info/theories/updates /sources than the usual news outlets. For peer reviewed stuff go to the lancet etc..
    For everything else, check out the Internet forums. Of COURSE there will be many many points of view! I've leaned LOADS here.

    If you don't want variety, don't come to an anonymous forum on the internet. Stick to the published peer reviewed studies :-)


  • #6789
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I had been harbouring secret thoughts of wanting to get this dose over and done with, but so far I’m reading that you don’t benefit by immunity from a recurrence of exact same virus, and indeed like the case in Dengue a Fever, the second dose kills you :(:(:(
    This is why that happens> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibody-dependent_enhancement

    Below is about SARS, not Covid19. But bear in mind it is in the same family. No evidence of this happening with Covid19 at this point anyway.
    We found that higher concentrations of anti-sera against SARS-CoV neutralized SARS-CoV infection, while highly diluted anti-sera significantly increased SARS-CoV infection and induced higher levels of apoptosis. Results from infectivity assays indicate that SARS-CoV ADE is primarily mediated by diluted antibodies against envelope spike proteins rather than nucleocapsid proteins. We also generated monoclonal antibodies against SARS-CoV spike proteins and observed that most of them promoted SARS-CoV infection. Combined, our results suggest that antibodies against SARS-CoV spike proteins may trigger ADE effects. The data raise new questions regarding a potential SARS-CoV vaccine, while shedding light on mechanisms involved in SARS pathogenesis.
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006291X14013321

    If it turns out that Covid19 is like that then its a game changer and something you dont want as part of your yearly cold and flu circulation.

    oh and the WHO:

    https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1179882.shtml
    A World Health Organization (WHO) expert team, including American experts, has arrived in Beijing and will visit South China's Guangdong Province and Southwest China's Sichuan Province to research China's prevention and control work on the novel coronavirus.

    The epidemic-stricken Hubei is not included in the international expert team's destinations, which, according to experts, is because the province is at a vital time combating the epidemic, and cannot spare time and people to receive the experts

    https://twitter.com/business/status/1229551360904966144?s=19

    Australian government offer to fly people back on condition of 14 days quarantine....all but 20 of the 200 accept:
    “We flew business class and had business class baggage allowance. We called the embassy and said we would not be ditching any baggage for this aircraft."
    Sydney couple Ellis and Kimberly Vincent said on Tuesday they had been given no information about the flight’s departure time or the baggage limits for the journey, and had little faith in the government.
    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/coronavirus-diamond-princess-australian-passengers-sceptical-of-evacuation-efforts/news-story/ea998ca0f0a9ec7c89e28e02709236db

    LOL


  • #6790
    SeaBreezes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    From an article in nytimes:

    Westerdam... (cruise ship that docked in Cambodia)

    The (former) passenger, 83, is now hospitalized along with her husband, 85, who is showing symptoms of the disease and has twice tested negative but he has pneumonia.The husband case might show that after testing multiple times the virus still isn't detectable...


  • #6791
    YFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    bmcc10 wrote: »
    Tokyo marathon has been cancelled pretty big deal now considering it was a chance for competitors to qualify for the Olympics.

    Elite athletes will be racing.


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  • #6792
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,375 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    SeaBreezes wrote: »
    Funnily enough that's exactly why I come here, to a forum, of anonymous people, on the internet....
    There's sooo much more info/theories/updates /sources than the usual news outlets. For peer reviewed stuff go to the lancet etc..
    For everything else, check out the Internet forums. Of COURSE there will be many many points of view! I've leaned LOADS here.
    If you don't want variety, don't come to an anonymous forum on the internet. Stick to the published peer reviewed studies :-)

    Plus, some of the stuff coming out from 'official' Ireland on this stuff is just garbage, it's not even up to date with the WHO (who finally seem to be cottoning onto China's dodgy figures) recommendations or even the NHS.

    Whatever about Youtube, the information on international news sites about this versus what is available in Ireland is the difference between sending something by email and by post on a sailing ship.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #6793
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,637 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    SeaBreezes wrote: »
    From an article in nytimes:

    Westdam... (cruise ship that docked in Cambodia)

    The (former) passenger, 83, is now hospitalized along with her husband, 85, who is showing symptoms of the disease and has twice tested negative but he has pneumonia.The husband case might show that after testing multiple times the virus still isn't detectable...

    Or he has something else. He's 85 after all.

    Edit: By the way, is he the guy who said he was a staunch Tory voter and had supported Boris J but had no faith in him to deal with this crisis? If so, that reduces my sympathy for him, as he seemed to be saying that when he voted for them he knew they were useless but didn't think then that he himself would find himself vulnerable to their recklessness/incompetence so he didn't mind tol much. I'd say Karma to that.

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



  • #6794
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    If they can send army rangers to Syria to pick up that waste of space Lisa Smith then the Irish government can go and get however many Irish citizens are stuck on that cruise ship.


  • #6795
    GooglePlus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭GooglePlus


    Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »
    If they can send army rangers to Syria to pick up that waste of space Lisa Smith then the Irish government can go and get however many Irish citizens are stuck on that cruise ship.

    Was she not in Turkey?


  • #6796
    pc7
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 14,272 Mod ✭✭✭✭pc7


    Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »
    If they can send army rangers to Syria to pick up that waste of space Lisa Smith then the Irish government can go and get however many Irish citizens are stuck on that cruise ship.

    Hopefully they’ll tag onto English rescue like they did for Ben Kavanagh in Wuhan.


  • #6797
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    GooglePlus wrote: »
    Was she not in Turkey?

    She could have been. But you get the gist of what I’m trying to say. All the stops should be pulled out to help them.


  • #6798
    YFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    1800_Ladladlad wrote: »
    Im not sure whether this was about but they came on and took two women off the plane after texting? no other info it , does anyone know anything about it ?

    https://twitter.com/MattieGriffin32/status/1229492618234454016

    The guy was asked about two girls taken off the plane, 'were they Chinese or not (paraphrasing). He said I don't know their nationality but they're definitely not Chinese. How would he know?


  • #6799
    Zenify
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 864 ✭✭✭Zenify


    Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »
    If they can send army rangers to Syria to pick up that waste of space Lisa Smith then the Irish government can go and get however many Irish citizens are stuck on that cruise ship.

    She came back on a commercial flight (Turkish airlines).wouldn't want to be sitting next to the cruise ship passengers on a commercial flight.


  • #6800
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ADE does not mean its impossible to create a vaccine which is good news. Lets hope its not like Dengue fever!
    How do you go about creating a vaccine against a new virus?
    Every virus has its unique challenges. In the case of n-coronavirus, the vaccine challenges are 2-fold. First, you have to interfere with the virus’s ability to dock with a specific receptor in the lungs called ACE2.

    Then, you need to reduce the problem of antibody-dependent enhancement. ADE means that some respiratory virus vaccines can actually make things worse. There are multiple ways to solve this problem. One option is creating a vaccine that only uses parts of the pathogen to stimulate the immune system. One approach is to do this by producing recombinant protein subunit vaccines.

    We have found that these vaccines that use a part of a protein of the virus (the spike protein) and known as the receptor binding domain (RBD) are optimal for 2 reasons: Recombinant proteins are a standard technology that has resulted in other licensed vaccines, including the hepatitis B and HPV vaccines; and it’s possible to produce this vaccine in abundance and at low cost.

    Moreover, this approach, unlike many others, reduces ADE and has a potential for being safe.

    Peter Hotez, MD, PhD, is dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine and Co-Director, Texas Children’s Hospital Center for Vaccine Development.
    https://www.globalhealthnow.org/2020-02/coronavirus-expert-reality-check
    Nonetheless, like other coronaviruses, vaccine-induced disease enhancement is also a concern in MERS-CoV vaccine development. MERS-CoV preexisting antibodies have been recently shown to contribute in disease enhancement.
    ....................
    SARS It was also shown in the same study that ADE response was dependent on antibody titers, as sera with high antibodies concentration neutralized the virus, while diluted sera significantly enhanced the infection and induced more apoptosis (Wang et al., 2014)
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6290032/

    The above would mean if you dont maintain high enough levels of anti bodies then the second exposure and subsequent infection would be nasty


  • #6801
    MD1990
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,740 ✭✭✭✭MD1990


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Even though the numbers are going down a lot, I still dont understand, how can anyone even still be getting infected by this virus seeing as nobody in Wuhan can even go outside or go to work or do anything? What possible way could the infection still be being spread from person to person? In addition to people probably being scared out of their mind to touch anybody else in public and probably always washing their hands and surfaces and wearing masks. Shoudnt the number of new cases since such a harsh lockdown be extremely small?

    Would make you wonder how crazy high the number of infected people would be if there was no big government intervention, or if it was ignored or undetected for a lot longer, or if people were less afraid and just took less care to isolate and wash hands/surfaces, probably would be in the millions

    Probably still paying the cost of going nearly 2 months of no quarantine in Wuhan


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  • #6802
    Rvsmmnps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 151 ✭✭Rvsmmnps


    Zenify wrote: »
    She came back on a commercial flight (Turkish airlines).wouldn't want to be sitting next to the cruise ship passengers on a commercial flight.

    So maybe they can lease an aircraft to bring them home..A ryanair 737 with one stop either way to refuel :)


  • #6803
    bmcc10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭bmcc10


    YFlyer wrote: »
    Elite athletes will be racing.

    It may aswell been cancelled. To reduce an event from 38'000 to a few hundred is significant especially with the olympics fast approaching.


  • #6804
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    Another senior doctor has died in Wuhan, reports of stricter protocols for residents locally.

    I just wonder how long they can keep a city of that size under lock down before there is major civil unrest.

    How are cases still increasing if such strict rules are being enforced? Is it because of the delay between the initial outbreak and the restrictions?

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/feb/18/senior-wuhan-doctor-dies-from-coronavirus-as-authorities-start-to-round-up-patients


  • #6805
    SeaBreezes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    volchitsa wrote: »
    Or he has something else. He's 85 after all.

    Edit: By the way, is he the guy who said he was a staunch Tory voter and had supported Boris J but had no faith in him to deal with this crisis? If so, that reduces my sympathy for him, as he seemed to be saying that when he voted for them he knew they were useless but didn't think then that he himself would find himself vulnerable to their recklessness/incompetence so he didn't mind tol much. I'd say Karma to that.

    They are American, so no.
    I have deepest sympathy for ANYONE who gets this horrible virus.

    Bit coincidental his wife has the virus, and he has similar symptoms but tests negative, no?


  • #6806
    tara73
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,358 ✭✭✭tara73


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI-iFiV1jns

    so this couple is now tested positive too?? That's shocking, great couple, their youtube videos were always very interesting and informative and also entertaining.

    and he also talked about the couple they befriended on the ship being tested positive, than brought to hospital and twice tested negative there..


  • #6807
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    volchitsa wrote: »
    Or he has something else. He's 85 after all.

    Edit: By the way, is he the guy who said he was a staunch Tory voter and had supported Boris J but had no faith in him to deal with this crisis? If so, that reduces my sympathy for him, as he seemed to be saying that when he voted for them he knew they were useless but didn't think then that he himself would find himself vulnerable to their recklessness/incompetence so he didn't mind tol much. I'd say Karma to that.

    Jeez christ. They are an elderly couple stuck on a boat where the virus is now rampant - and you reckon smack it to them because of some expressed political opinion? Glad I dont live in your universe :mad:


  • #6808
    tara73
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,358 ✭✭✭tara73


    tara73 wrote: »

    so this couple is now tested positive too?? That's shocking, great couple, their youtube videos were always very interesting and informative and also entertaining.


    have to quote myself here... if it is like that David Abel said, they want to silence him and have not put him in a hospital but in a hostel with no access to wifi, that's more shocking than having the virus..why or who wants to silence him?? he didn't do anything wrong, never spoke bad of the cruise ship, the opposite, he was informing the world very objectively about everything. Stuff of nightmares for them.


  • #6809
    givyjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,287 ✭✭✭givyjoe


    bmcc10 wrote: »
    It may aswell been cancelled. To reduce an event from 38'000 to a few hundred is significant especially with the olympics fast approaching.

    It may happen but with no crowd. I can see something similar happening with premier league if it takes hold in the UK.


  • #6810
    Drumpot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    Does anybody know who is responsible for Ireland crisis management?

    I found http://emii.ie/emii-committee-members/ but I’m not sure if it is our main crisis management community.

    I wouldn’t mind going to some of the meetings (if there are any) to see what are the protocols and thinking behind how they manage these situations. Poor communication seems to be a serious deficiency (as Highlighted in https://www.ghsindex.org/country/ireland/ ) and all we got was a copy and paste (NHS) website from the HSE.

    I’d love to understand the thought process behind this. I haven’t gotten any answers here as you got people just telling people to stop panicking. I didn’t read to many posts panicking, but there does seem to be an issue with people wanting to be educated on it being considered as troublesome.

    Some day there will be a crisis in this country. I don’t mean a day or two of ice that caused the great Brennan’s bread crisis, I mean something serious. I suppose if I’m somebody that likes to understand it, I just want to see if there is a forum or open meeting I can attend to get more educated on it.


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  • #6811
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Not far off 100 more people on the ship infected. 542 total, more than one in 8 passengers now confirmed positive


This discussion has been closed.
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