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"None of our children on the list are getting these houses"

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    #62
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,816 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    If don't have your own place to live or can't provide them with the living conditions you'd like then why have kids?

    Sure why not bring in Classist Eugenics and compulsory sterilise every council house tenant in the country?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #63
    Fiery mutant
    Registered Users Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Fiery mutant


    CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

    These homes should be going to Irish WORKING people.
    .

    I’ve always understood that working meant paying your own way, not getting a house handed to you. I gave up nights out, buying fancy stuff, holidays and anything I could so I could save to get my home.

    I then did it all again so I could give a life to my kids.

    The only thing these people seem to want to give up in Order to get a home, is their virginity.

    We should defend our way of life to an extent that any attempt on it is crushed, so that any adversary will never make such an attempt in the future.



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    #64
    smelly sock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    Huntergonzo wrote: »
    The thing is most of the time people are housed in their own area anyway because most housing applications ask you to state your areas of preference and councils do their best to accommodate people so they don't even have to commute.

    It may sound ridiculous but a lot of the time these people expect a house right beside their parents house (handy to dump the kids when they're heading out).

    I seen somebody refuse a house on the grounds that it was 'is too far away from the parents house'.......it was 1km away!!

    Now in a sane world that person should lose all their years and have to re-apply but that didn't happen. They caused so much trouble that management couldn't handle it anymore and they got their years back.

    Yeh i have of people failing to fill out the application form accurately. Well they lied about means etc. Still kept there place on the list.


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    #65
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    neonsofa wrote: »
    I've been working full time since my childs father left. Gained another qualification, and did multiple evening courses along the way. After years of paying childcare and rent from one wage, my savings for a deposit are laughable. And chances of getting mortgage approval are slim anyway. I still technically qualify for social housing based on my current wage.

    So I'm not sure how they will get out of the ditch by doing a bit of part time work and night school? Not defending them in the slightest btw, just genuinely don't see how they will be self sufficient from doing so, when a person with multiple third level qualifications and years of professional experience is no better off.

    I dont know what the solution is, not claiming to, just the system right now is obviously broken.

    That sucks alright, the banks are especially hard if you have a kid and your looking for a mortgage. You understand though that nothing comes for free and the system itself is broken and letting you down because there isn't a decent enough supply that you can qualify for a mortgage. I also assume that your getting screwed on the rent at the moment because the market right now is basically investor heaven.

    The other valid and legitimate question to be asked is should producing guarantee you a house and a house in an area of your choosing? Thats what the impression seems to be given from the article.


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    #66
    zerosugarbuzz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭zerosugarbuzz


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    If don't have your own place to live or can't provide them with the living conditions you'd like then why have kids?

    Not all pregnancies are planned and not all people are prepared to have an abortion. I would have thought that was common knowledge.


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    #67
    smelly sock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    zerosugarbuzz wrote: »
    Not all pregnancies are planned and not all people are prepared to have an abortion. I would have thought that was common knowledge.

    Not everyone thinks they are entitled to a free house when they have a baby.


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    #68
    neonsofa
    Registered Users Posts: 5,476 ✭✭✭neonsofa


    Calhoun wrote: »
    That sucks alright, the banks are especially hard if you have a kid and your looking for a mortgage. You understand though that nothing comes for free and the system itself is broken and letting you down because there isn't a decent enough supply that you can qualify for a mortgage. I also assume that your getting screwed on the rent at the moment because the market right now is basically investor heaven.

    The other valid and legitimate question to be asked is should producing guarantee you a house and a house in an area of your choosing? Thats what the impression seems to be given from the article.

    Yeah, it is what it is. Many people are in a similar situation to me.

    My post wasn't about how tough i have it. I was more pointing out that even if these people work part time and do an evening course like some suggest on the thread, they will still not be self sufficient. They will still qualify for social housing, like many working professionals do. People are very quick to say "get a job", which is fair, everyone should earn their living, but even a full time job wouldn't have them off the list in many cases.

    Nobody should be guaranteed a house. And nobody should feel entitled to choose where their social housing should be, especially if they are not working.

    The system is broken. And it acts as a disincentive to work in many cases. But those working- many of which still qualify for social housing- are no better off due to the factors you outline in your post- was the only point i was making.


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    #69
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    strandroad wrote: »
    I read the entire article and not a father in sight. It's a whole multi-generational subculture where women keep having kids while on waiting list and fathers just disappear.

    yes, its total insanity! Why isnt the system being changed?


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    #70
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    zerosugarbuzz wrote: »
    Not all pregnancies are planned and not all people are prepared to have an abortion. I would have thought that was common knowledge.

    once is an oversight. several times is a strategy.


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    #71
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    once is an oversight. several times is a strategy.

    look at their choice though! Rip off housing, child care, commute, the stress, trying to get deposit togehter OR let the state pay for everything, the madness here, is the system, not people availing of the system (the system is ****ed) but that is the politicians doing


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    #72
    smelly sock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    look at their choice though! Rip off housing, child care, commute, the stress, trying to get deposit togehter OR let the state pay for everything, the madness here, is the system, not people availing of the system (the system is ****ed) but that is the politicians doing

    Yeh. And we have two "centre right" parties responsible for it. Joke.

    We the workers should really protest at this point. A national strike for cheaper interest rates, shorter cummutes and abolition of the USC.


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    #73
    terrythomas474
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭terrythomas474


    If you contribute nothing you should be entitled to same.generations of wasters and now the dregs of Africa is added to the list


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    #74
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    look at their choice though! Rip off housing, child care, commute, the stress, trying to get deposit togehter OR let the state pay for everything, the madness here, is the system, not people availing of the system (the system is ****ed) but that is the politicians doing

    oh i 100% understand the lifestyle choice, i'm just not keen on paying for it.


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    #75
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Ive been saying this for years on boards, surprised it has taken this long for people to see the obvious, handing out lotto wins to many wasters and a life sentence of huge debt, if they can even achieve that (to get a mortgage) after living in kips or at home into their thirties and forties for the rest, while paying a marginal rate of tax of FIFTY percent!!! LOL!!!

    To hell with the LPT, introduce a council tax! Every adult in your local council area pays it! Start reducing the insane marginal rate of tax. Stop depriving hard working people of their own roof over their head!

    This is being foisted on us, by primarily FG, the party of the "early risers" this situation, wouldnt even be deemed believable, in any other country! They bend over backwards for people that will never vote for them and fcuk many of the working people in the process and lose influence because of it! Absolute insanity! Its why you need a leader, not Varadkar, who sees himself as a celebrity first and foremost!


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    #76
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    oh i 100% understand the lifestyle choice, i'm just not keen on paying for it.

    the system has to be changed, its rotten and corrupt to the core and unfortunately benefits many of the wasters, who have been on it for years. How many hard working people had the foresight years ago, to see the government would be handing away free housing to some , while at the same time, trying to jack prices up as high as possible and you (no homeowner) you are the collateral damage


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    #77
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    strandroad wrote: »
    I read the entire article and not a father in sight. It's a whole multi-generational subculture where women keep having kids while on waiting list and fathers just disappear.

    The women know well who the fathers are, and many of the fathers have relationships with the kids.

    But listing fathers on birth certs or formally cohabiting are understood, in welfare entitlement culture, to be rookie mistakes that lessen the entitlement to the foreva home.

    We have an entire subculture of fractured families because of perverse welfare incentives that penalize couples for cohabiting and raising their kids together.


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    #78
    smelly sock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    Edith Deafening Wheelbarrow wrote: »
    The women know well who the fathers are, and many of the fathers have relationships with the kids.

    But listing fathers on birth certs or formally cohabiting are understood to be no-nos because that lessens the entitlement to the foreva home.

    We have an entire subculture of fractured families because of perverse welfare incentives that penalize couples for cohabiting and raising their kids together.

    Imagine your child looking at their birth cert and asking " why isnt my dads name on it?"

    Cretins.


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    #79
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    I think we are blending allot of issues together. We live in a social democratic system and we have a system with built in support for difficult times.

    In the area of housing the problem is that people have forgotten that over time and felt entitled to housing, where and when they wanted it. The service provider (government) has then decided to essentially reduce the expense by essentially making it harder to provide.

    The system needs to be relooked at from top-down. The government should have to provide shelter but they should be able to manage their own stock based on need and housing provided should be where its available and nowhere else. Finally any anti-social and the person should be cut off completely.


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    #80
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    all the time invested in protesting outside the building site they could spend it looking for jobs


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    #81
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    all the time invested in protesting outside the building site they could spend it looking for jobs

    They don't need to look for jobs until the youngest turns 7 which is when you have another one.


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    #82
    AdrianG08
    Registered Users Posts: 905 ✭✭✭AdrianG08


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    Where did I say that?

    Just asking a genuine question.

    Youre not allowed ask this question. Off limits.

    Didnt you know 100% of 27 year olds with 3 kids worked 40 hours per week but still cant catch a break.

    Government got them pregnant when living in a house with 10 others.


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    #83
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    plenty of poor people dont sign on the housing list at 18. plenty of poor people dont have multiple children without the means to raise them. poverty is a circumstance. scrounging is a lifestyle. the circumstance can be overcome. the lifestyle is a choice.

    So you agree there's wealthy scroungers.now we're getting somewhere.so if there's loopholes do you agree we need to close off the ones the rich and the poor are exploiting?


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    #84
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    One thing is for certain, housing has become the most toxic political and social issue in the country, and brings out the very worst in people when it gets brought up.

    I have my own pet theories why it went so badly wrong and the possible road out of the hole we're in, but someone would probably fly off the handle if I introduced them.

    Until the Irish people are ready to sit down and seriously discuss the layers of problems leaving their emotions aside, it will I predict get worse. Then there are those would deny there is any problem at all - and I honestly think those people should leave the debate and get on with their lives if they feel so strongly that there isn't an issue here.


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    #85
    LoughNeagh2017
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭LoughNeagh2017


    Men who live with parents are one of the most hated groups in society, I never noticed this until i became an adult living with parents myself. You often notice the jibes on tv and the Internet about basement dwellers. Society hates on us but never shows empathy for our poverty or mental health difficulties. Society has shown me nothing but contempt for being a failed man so I show it nothing but contempt.


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    #86
    MakingMovies2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 199 ✭✭MakingMovies2


    Westwood wrote: »
    Brand new build here in Ratoath co Meath 400 houses, 10% given to foreign nationals as council houses, not 1 Irish family, these houses start at 310k-500k, call it what you like racism or whatever but it's sickening to the stomach

    And? What's wrong with that? They're entitled to come to Ireland and start new lives. Or are only white Irish people allowed to live here?


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    #87
    MakingMovies2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 199 ✭✭MakingMovies2


    Westwood wrote: »
    Brand new build here in Ratoath co Meath 400 houses, 10% given to foreign nationals as council houses, not 1 Irish family, these houses start at 310k-500k, call it what you like racism or whatever but it's sickening to the stomach

    And? What's wrong with that? They're entitled to come to Ireland and start new lives. Or are only white Irish people allowed to live here?


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    #88
    zerosugarbuzz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭zerosugarbuzz


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    once is an oversight. several times is a strategy.

    No one should have to go to that extreme measure to get a home.


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    #89
    MakingMovies2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 199 ✭✭MakingMovies2


    LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »
    Men who live with parents are one of the most hated groups in society, I never noticed this until i became an adult living with parents myself. You often notice the jibes on tv and the Internet about basement dwellers. Society hates on us but never shows empathy for our poverty or mental health difficulties. Society has shown me nothing but contempt for being a failed man so I show it nothing but contempt.

    Aww another sad entitled whiny white male crying at his evaporating privilege. There's these things called jobs. Go get one and stop crying on the internet.

    Mod


    Banned.


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    #90
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,075 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Perhaps its time grown adults started to live the lives that suits their means?

    If you are on the waiting list 5 years, 10 years, stop churning out kids.
    Maybe say "its time I upskilled and try to work my way out of this mess I'm in"

    I also notice a lack of fathers being mentioned in a lot of these stories. Its always "mum with X children". Its time people started to look after the kids they produce. Its not the taxpayers job.

    If you rely on handouts all your life, your lot isn't going to improve much.
    The State can only do so much. It can never house everyone who wants housed, especially if its in a location they won't move away from.

    People aren't realistic.


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    #91
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »
    Men who live with parents are one of the most hated groups in society, I never noticed this until i became an adult living with parents myself. You often notice the jibes on tv and the Internet about basement dwellers. Society hates on us but never shows empathy for our poverty or mental health difficulties. Society has shown me nothing but contempt for being a failed man so I show it nothing but contempt.

    I had to move home for a few months a few years ago after a relationship ended to get back on my feet and out there again.

    Please remember that those who say things like that are deeply unhappy and judgemental people themselves. You have value as a person, it doesn't matter who owns the roof over your head.


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