GE Exit Poll 10 pm

L1011 · 16-02-2020 03:36AM

efanton wrote: »

No I have been a member for eight years. Eight years ago after having some health issues I was looking for some locations that had easy access locally for trout fishing.

I then rarely if at all used the forum until this election.
I realised that this election was going to be somewhat different. I did not realise how different as it turned out, but posted a thread asking people what they though about voting SF and whether there was a swing in their direction and whether people that had never voted for them before were considering that.

I have only recently posted on this political forum in the hopes of being more informed and getting some answers to questions that I have not seen answered elsewhere.
Had you bothered to look up my post history that would have been plainly evident.
It seem you are well able to weed out information when it suits you.

But asserting that others are jumping to assumptions when in fact you yourself plainly are, strikes me as ironic.

I was not aware my constituency was the only constituency SF did not field a candidate.

But enough deflecting, why am I having to defend myself when you neither answered one of my questions or commented relevantly to them.

It is basically impossible to figure out what your questions are; from the extensive rambling posts they are apparently within.

I also doubt they have any relevance to me that would require me to answer; considering how limited our interactions have actually been.

charlie14 · 16-02-2020 03:56AM

Just saw a tweet from Micheál Lehane saying Micheál Martin phoned Mary Lou after the Fianna Fáil parliamentary party meeting and left a message saying they could meet or talk, but not about a coalition.

Jinglejangle69 · 16-02-2020 03:58AM

charlie14 wrote: »

Just saw a tweet from Micheál Lehane saying Micheál Martin phoned Mary Lou after the Fianna Fáil parliamentary party meeting and left a message saying they could meet or talk, but not about a coalition.

Thanks for that groundbreaking news.

charlie14 · 16-02-2020 04:04AM

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Thanks for that groundbreaking news.

It`s okay if you do not like me. Not everyone has perfect taste:)

Jinglejangle69 · 16-02-2020 04:06AM

charlie14 wrote: »

It`s okay if you do not like me. Not everyone has perfect taste:)

I don't even know you let alone not like you!!

efanton · 16-02-2020 06:20AM

L1011 wrote: »

It is basically impossible to figure out what your questions are; from the extensive rambling posts they are apparently within.

I also doubt they have any relevance to me that would require me to answer; considering how limited our interactions have actually been.

in future please, if its not relevant to you, dont respond.

You have made a fool of yourself, trying to be clever and badly at that.

Brendan Bendar · 16-02-2020 10:19AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

But the 'oddball' Mick Barry actually represented his constituency and did the job he was paid to do (on the avg industrial wage) unlike Dara Murphy the FG TD who went missing off to Brussels double jobbing with the knowledge of his party and only showed in the Dail to fob in to claim his unvouched for expenses.

Give me an 'oddball' who works for his constituency over a money grabbing, grasping, spiv any day.

Was Barry just paid to attend picket lines?

Given how he just scraped in doesn’t appear he represented all his constituents equally and well.

is_that_so · 16-02-2020 10:23AM

Billcarson wrote: »

Which they probably wont, I have little or no faith in them.

Perhaps not, but the electorate on one score have delivered a message. Assuming they do a deal, from their perspective, it's a chance to pick off and nullify one major policy drive by SF. and that can only be good for support.

is_that_so · 16-02-2020 10:24AM

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Was Barry just paid to attend picket lines?

Given how he just scraped in doesn’t appear he represented all his constituents equally and well.

The scraping in doesn't matter, it's the "in" he has in his favour.

Brendan Bendar · 16-02-2020 10:32AM

is_that_so wrote: »

The scraping in doesn't matter, it's the "in" he has in his favour.

All it proves is there enough fools who are taken in by rhetoric and ‘policies’ which are ‘everything for everyone irrespective whether they are entitled or not’.

As the person who messaged RTÉ said “total anarchist.

is_that_so · 16-02-2020 10:37AM

McMurphy wrote: »

If they fix what's annoying people just to keep out the shinners well then that's a very serious flaw in our political system that needs to be taken out at the root.

Nah, it's what parties have always done here, stolen other people's clothes. The PDs were so utterly indistinguishable from FF by the end, it was no surprise at all they disappeared. SF need to convince people they are worth voting for as a potential party of government and not as undoubtedly has happened here, by just being the ABFFG.

Bannasidhe · 16-02-2020 01:03PM

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Was Barry just paid to attend picket lines?

Given how he just scraped in doesn’t appear he represented all his constituents equally and well.

Shock horror - TD appears on picket lines in support of his constituents. What ever next!

Much better to be in a locked car with a garda escort and have protestors arrested in dawn raids before being found not guilty after a complete waste of garda resources, court time, and taxpayers money.

That's how a proper politician represents the electorate is it?

Are you suggesting he should ignore issues that concern his constituents so much they go on strike/protest or that people are on picket lines just for the jollies?

Given how many FF and FG TDs scraped in without reaching the quota it's a bit rich trying to use that isn't it. Sad too. Scraping the bottom of the barrel indeed.

L1011 · 16-02-2020 01:05PM

efanton wrote: »

in future please, if its not relevant to you, dont respond.

You have made a fool of yourself, trying to be clever and badly at that.

I'm really not sure what thread you think you're reading/posting in.

Water John · 16-02-2020 01:19PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

But the 'oddball' Mick Barry actually represented his constituency and did the job he was paid to do (on the avg industrial wage) unlike Dara Murphy the FG TD who went missing off to Brussels double jobbing with the knowledge of his party and only showed in the Dail to fob in to claim his unvouched for expenses.

Give me an 'oddball' who works for his constituency over a money grabbing, grasping, spiv any day.

You're setting the bar very low. Dara was an embarrassment for FG for a long time and would also qualify for oddball list.

Bannasidhe · 16-02-2020 01:39PM

Water John wrote: »

You're setting the bar very low. Dara was an embarrassment for FG for a long time and would also qualify for oddball list.

Not an oddball - a spiv chancer on the make.
And FG weren't so embarrassed that they took action were they?
So yeah, embarrassed at finally being called out for allowing an elected TD to blatantly get away with not even pretending to make an effort to do his job while still claiming the overly generous expenses that were designed to help him do the job he wasn't even pretending to do.

Mick Barry, meanwhile, gets criticised for standing shoulder to shoulder with his constituents when they are aggrieved enough to take to the picket line. :rolleyes:

But sure what do frontline staff in the HSE, teachers who are paid less than their colleagues doing the exact same job, childcare workers on minimum wage, tenants in blocks of flats suddenly and simultaneously being given eviction notices have to complain about?

Our economy is doing so well here in Cork North Central that our last govt TD had 2 well paid jobs bai.

Water John · 16-02-2020 01:48PM

Not criticising Mick Barry for standing in any picket line. What annoys me is here offers no positive rational solutions. A hurler on the ditch.
BTW you're correct Dara was long known as a liability. Colm Burke might be a dour political plodder but CNC will be represented honestly by him.

CatFromHue · 16-02-2020 02:09PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

But the 'oddball' Mick Barry actually represented his constituency and did the job he was paid to do (on the avg industrial wage) unlike Dara Murphy the FG TD who went missing off to Brussels double jobbing with the knowledge of his party and only showed in the Dail to fob in to claim his unvouched for expenses.

Give me an 'oddball' who works for his constituency over a money grabbing, grasping, spiv any day.

If he draws down the full wage from the exchequer he doesn't work for the avg wage. He works for the full TD wage and then just chooses to spend half of it to further his own cause by giving it to his party.

Barry's solutions are on his party's website, take everything into govt control.

Bannasidhe · 16-02-2020 02:16PM

Water John wrote: »

Not criticising Mick Barry for standing in any picket line. What annoys me is here offers no positive rational solutions. A hurler on the ditch.
BTW you're correct Dara was long known as a liability. Colm Burke might be a dour political plodder but CNC will be represented honestly by him.

Who does offer rational solutions?
Serious question.

FG's policies on health, housing, and education (funding wise) are not working. The proof is on the trolleys, sleeping in doorways, and in envelopes of cash parents have to hand over to schools to help keep them going.

FF aren't offering much in the way of difference and, let's be honest, helped create a lot of the problems in the first place (not specifically talking about the crash - they took policy decisions that started us down this road).

The viability, or lack of, what SF have to offer will apparently have to wait a while longer before being put to the test.

But there is another aspect of democracy that is often undervalued in Ireland - perhaps because it is an aspect that we haven't really experienced. The truth is this country has lacked serious opposition for decades - could even say we have never had serious opposition to govt, we have had quibbles from across the floor of the Dail about how to implement what were essentially the same blasted policies.

We need mouthy opposition to govt - helps keep the feckers in line. It's how our system of democracy was designed to function.

I'm perfectly happy to have one of my TDs provide that mouthy opposition tbh.
I like having an alternative viewpoint being delivered from the opposition benches. I like having the guy I gave my #1 to standing on the picket line in the lashing rain, wearing a fleece top, giving it welly through a megaphone because I do not feel the bloke in the suit getting his assistant to promise that he will 'look into it' always 'gets it'. I am sure the people on the picket line appreciate having a TD there with them. Letting them see that someone in Dail Eireann is listening even if the govt isn't.
When the electorate feel no-one at all is listening then that's when democracy is in trouble.

We need the TDs who heed, believe, and support the whistleblowers and the disenfranchised and the just had enough more than we need yet another backbencher who votes with the whip and has feck all input into govt policy.

Mick Barry is that TD for CNC.

CatFromHue · 16-02-2020 02:24PM

Just looking at Solidarity's website

Public services
End church control of schools and hospitals. Separate church and state now. Nationalise church-owned land where public services reside with no compensation.
End the unjust, two-tier health service. For a public, secular national health service free at the point of use. Nationalise all privately owned hospitals and pharmaceutical companies.

It lacks any detail to be anyway credible.

There's nothing there to actually help improve the health services. Nationalising the private hospitals won't improve anything. Natioanlising pharma companies, i don't know where to even start with that.

devnull · 16-02-2020 02:39PM

CatFromHue wrote: »

There's nothing there to actually help improve the health services. Nationalising the private hospitals won't improve anything. Natioanlising pharma companies, i don't know where to even start with that.

The problem I found with most of the left wing parties who were canvassing in my area is they were obsessed with buzzwords, rhetoric and the ideology that public = good and private = bad but were unable to coherently back up their views with anything factual that backed up their viewpoints. There was lots of vague claims such as the ones that you have outlined without any meat on the bones.

For example, PBP in my area were saying Go-Ahead Ireland services should be run by Dublin Bus as GAI services were of a poor standard, yet figures on punctuality and reliability that have been independently recorded show that Dublin Bus services are of a similar performance and sometimes worse yet he didn't wish to acknowledge this because he was more concerned about ideology. If he really cared about public transport he would call out both operators rather than ignoring things which don't suit his argument and singling out those who do to try and present a false narrative.

As a centrist I've never been one to be swayed by blind faith to an ideology in any way or to allow me to allow it to influence my opinion. I judge things by how they have been managed without any built in prejudiced bias . The left in Ireland, for my view are still too driven by buzzwords and ideology rather than facts and this is why I didn't vote for Sinn Fein. The only left party that got a vote for me was the Social Democrats because they came across as being a little less driven by ideology and a little more grounded as to seeing the importance of the bigger picture and focused on outcomes and fixing problems.

The thing about being in opposition is you can put across simplistic sentences with what you are going to do without actually saying how you are going to do it or what that involves specifically. It's very easy to say the things like CatFromHue posted but not so easy in reality to implement them and everything be hunky dory.

Brendan Bendar · 16-02-2020 02:45PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Shock horror - TD appears on picket lines in support of his constituents. What ever next!

Much better to be in a locked car with a garda escort and have protestors arrested in dawn raids before being found not guilty after a complete waste of garda resources, court time, and taxpayers money.

That's how a proper politician represents the electorate is it?

Are you suggesting he should ignore issues that concern his constituents so much they go on strike/protest or that people are on picket lines just for the jollies?

Given how many FF and FG TDs scraped in without reaching the quota it's a bit rich trying to use that isn't it. Sad too. Scraping the bottom of the barrel indeed.

He might be better served trying either mediate the issues if appropriate instead of hawking himself around on every picket line going for photo ops.

And others might do well to remember that in disputes there are two sides to every story.

If the criteria for being a ‘proper politician’ is to appear on every picket line going, well there aren’t many proper politicians in Dáil Éireann.

I would respectfully suggest that ‘politicians’ realise that there are two parties in every dispute and that they would be much better employed and better value for money if they were less high profile on every picket line and more active behind the scenes trying to resolve the issues.

padd b1975 · 16-02-2020 02:55PM

charlie14 wrote: »

Just saw a tweet from Micheál Lehane saying Micheál Martin phoned Mary Lou after the Fianna Fáil parliamentary party meeting and left a message saying they could meet or talk, but not about a coalition.

Is it too much to expect her to be close to her phone at all times in the current political climate??

Don't get me started on the letter writing!!

Bannasidhe · 16-02-2020 03:01PM

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

He might be better served trying either mediate the issues if appropriate instead of hawking himself around on every picket line going for photo ops.

And others might do well to remember that in disputes there are two sides to every story.

If the criteria for being a ‘proper politician’ is to appear on every picket line going, well there aren’t many proper politicians in Dáil Éireann.

I would respectfully suggest that ‘politicians’ realise that there are two parties in every dispute and that they would be much better employed and better value for money if they were less high profile on every picket line and more active behind the scenes trying to resolve the issues.

Then don't vote for him.
You have that option because 100 years ago mouthy socialists took one side in a dispute.
They created the Irish Citizen's Army to protect the workers in a dispute with 2 sides where the other side had the forces of the State wielding truncheons.
That same Citizen's Army fought to create Dail Eireann that now has an awful lot of useless politicians in it.

I would respectfully suggest the Rising that led to the founding of this State owes a hell of a lot more to the likes of Mick Barry than anyone who saw two sides to the story and tried to mediate.

I will continue to vote for the mouthy guy on the Opposition benches and you can continue to vote for the useless bankbencher bound by a whip system who goes around every four years kissing babies for photo ops.

That's the beauty of democracy. We both get to be represented.

charlie14 · 16-02-2020 03:14PM

padd b1975 wrote: »

Is it too much to expect her to be close to her phone at all times in the current political climate??

Don't get me started on the letter writing!!

If she had spent the day talking to the likes of Mick Barry about forming a coalition of the left government, I could see the need for a little lie down in a quiet dark room.

Brendan Bendar · 16-02-2020 03:17PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Then don't vote for him.
You have that option because 100 years ago mouthy socialists took one side in a dispute.
They created the Irish Citizen's Army to protect the workers in a dispute with 2 sides where the other side had the forces of the State wielding truncheons.
That same Citizen's Army fought to create Dail Eireann that now has an awful lot of useless politicians in it.

I would respectfully suggest the Rising that led to the founding of this State owes a hell of a lot more to the likes of Mick Barry than anyone who saw two sides to the story and tried to mediate.

I will continue to vote for the mouthy guy on the Opposition benches and you can continue to vote for the useless bankbencher bound by a whip system who goes around every four years kissing babies for photo ops.

That's the beauty of democracy. We both get to be represented.

I think you are conflating a lot of stuff into a mishmash of an analogy which in which you seem to elevate Barry into some kind minor deity akin to
Daniel Cohen-Bendidt back in the day.

You misconstrue my points badly I’m afraid.

My point being that Barry instead of siding with one coterie of the electorate all the time would be better value for money to remember he needs to treat all the electorate fairly and look at both sides of the issues in dispute.

I will never vote for a “useless backbencher” as you describe it,and I will certainly never vote for a “mouthy guy” in opposition who as the texter to RTE said was only interested “in anarchy”.

That’s the real beauty of democracy.

You can make up your own mind...

Calhoun · 16-02-2020 03:56PM

I am loving the deflection from politicians on why they lost out.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/shell-be-taking-maternity-leave-no-point-electing-her-female-politicians-who-lost-seats-highlight-online-abuse-38960833.html

I am not doubting that their are neanderthals out there that abuse them because they are woman but allot of people couldn't give a **** what is between someones leg when voting or criticizing them.

Lisa Chambers got caught up in the Dimmy Tooley crap and wonders why people were reluctant to vote for her. She may have seemed like she was the brexit go to for MM but the voters didn't.

Regina Doherty is all that is smug and egotistical about FG, is on record saying that men would only use paternity leave for golfing. Then has the nerve in this article saying we need to look at how we deal with people. I mean come on you only have to look at the below to understand she is talking out of both sides of her mouth.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/blogger-considers-legal-action-over-garda-caution-at-airport-1.3145958

Bannasidhe · 16-02-2020 04:12PM

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I think you are conflating a lot of stuff into a mishmash of an analogy which in which you seem to elevate Barry into some kind minor deity akin to
Daniel Cohen-Bendidt back in the day.

You misconstrue my points badly I’m afraid.

My point being that Barry instead of siding with one coterie of the electorate all the time would be better value for money to remember he needs to treat all the electorate fairly and look at both sides of the issues in dispute.

I will never vote for a “useless backbencher” as you describe it,and I will certainly never vote for a “mouthy guy” in opposition who as the texter to RTE said was only interested “in anarchy”.

That’s the real beauty of democracy.

You can make up your own mind...

If my analogy is a mishmash surely you could have countered with something other than disingenuous hyperbole?
It is a historical fact that mouthy socialists kicked off the Irish revolutionary war. I stated that Mick Barry is in that tradition.
I made no comparison to event in France in the 1960s, I clearly referenced The Irish Citizen's Army, The Great Lock Out, and 1916. James Connolly was a mouthy socialist who placed a key role in the events that led to the formation of this Irish Republic. That may not sit comfortably with your personal political beliefs but it is true nonetheless. The mediators had been getting nowhere for decades. They were nothing but pawns in the Whig Vs Tory dance in the HOC.

I happen to believe mouthy socialists still have an important role to play in our democracy. You do not. We each get to make up our own mind as to whether our democracy is protecting all the citizens.
You may believe it does. I believe it doesn't. I am as entitled to have my viewpoint represented as you are. Obviously enough voters in CNC agreed with me.

When it is the government itself who is at fault then who is best placed to hold them to account than a member of Dail Eireann?

Congratulations on your impressive ability to only ever vote for members of a Cabinet before it is ever formed btw. An impressive skill.

.

Water John · 16-02-2020 04:28PM

padd b1975 wrote: »

Is it too much to expect her to be close to her phone at all times in the current political climate??

Don't get me started on the letter writing!!

MM did eventually get MLM on the phone and they spoke for 15 mins.

FrancieBrady · 16-02-2020 04:49PM

padd b1975 wrote: »

Is it too much to expect her to be close to her phone at all times in the current political climate??

Don't get me started on the letter writing!!

The 'letter writing' has to do with entering it into the public record I think. A way of having consultations recorded.

Brendan Bendar · 16-02-2020 04:53PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

If my analogy is a mishmash surely you could have countered with something other than disingenuous hyperbole?
It is a historical fact that mouthy socialists kicked off the Irish revolutionary war. I stated that Mick Barry is in that tradition.
I made no comparison to event in France in the 1960s, I clearly referenced The Irish Citizen's Army, The Great Lock Out, and 1916. James Connolly was a mouthy socialist who placed a key role in the events that led to the formation of this Irish Republic. That may not sit comfortably with your personal political beliefs but it is true nonetheless. The mediators had been getting nowhere for decades. They were nothing but pawns in the Whig Vs Tory dance in the HOC.

I happen to believe mouthy socialists still have an important role to play in our democracy. You do not. We each get to make up our own mind as to whether our democracy is protecting all the citizens.
You may believe it does. I believe it doesn't. I am as entitled to have my viewpoint represented as you are. Obviously enough voters in CNC agreed with me.

When it is the government itself who is at fault then who is best placed to hold them to account than a member of Dail Eireann?

Congratulations on your impressive ability to only ever vote for members of a Cabinet before it is ever formed btw. An impressive skill.

.

Mick Barry is no James Connolly, my friend.

GE Exit Poll 10 pm

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