Picard 1x04 - "Absolute Candour" [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]

Spear · 13-02-2020 1:18pm #1

And since the episode and it's spoilers are out and about.

It felt fairly flat, which again wasn't helped by the main throwbacks and surprises being long ago spoiled by the trailers/teasers.

fritzelly · 13-02-2020 6:18pm

Nothing to see here - move along now

Was expecting more and the space fight felt...very amateurish

Patrick Stewart does look very frail in a lot of scenes

Goodshape · 13-02-2020 8:11pm

Oh, that was much better!

Really enjoyed it. Felt a lot tighter than the previous episode or two. The crew are all together and they seem to get on fine.

Jonathan Frakes directed this one and he always seems to be good with the actors. Everything and everyone, finally, felt pretty comfortable.

A few of the scenes with Picard and the Romulans weren't the best, but it didn't really matter.

Borg stuff moving slowly – well, everything moving pretty slowly I guess – but that's fine. The roadtrip is pretty good in the meantime.

The ship seems cool and all the VFX were great. This show looks amazing. Class seeing the old warbird too, with the old beam weapons.

I was hoping this would feel almost like "Episode 2", after the three part opening, and I think it really did. Was worried after last week but looking forward to more again.

taytobreath · 13-02-2020 8:15pm

I enjoyed it too, it was slow and yeah a bit flat at first, but I really enjoyed the 3rd episode and I'm looking forward to more.

jim-jam · 13-02-2020 8:18pm

I enjoyed it more than last week's episode I must say but still not without it's flaws.

The JL thing is still utter nonsense.

13-02-2020 9:04pm

I enjoyed it, but for a ten part series we should be at the end of episode two. Not the end of episode four.

I don't deny the episodes fly by. I watched an early voyager episode last night and it felt like a slog.

Slydice · 13-02-2020 9:23pm

Oh that was so much fun!

Opposite to Vulcans! Wahey!

Of course the Romulans have opposite to Vulcans!
Though.. Yer man looks like a Legolas style elf from LOTR!

Anyway, enjoyed that finishing up battle and intro to Seven! Great Intro!

sioda · 13-02-2020 9:49pm

Yup enjoyed that. The holographic crew works for me tbh.
Still early days but get the feeling this will move a little quicker now we have a full crew.

TheValeyard · 13-02-2020 9:49pm

Great episode, far better than last week. I really enjoyed it. Love how we're discovering more about Romulan culture, and loved all the holograms!

Oh and the original Romulan BOP, magnificent!

Burty330 · 13-02-2020 10:50pm

Poory paced nonsequitur story-telling of punishing banality. Don't really care anymore to take my review further than that.

FutureGuy · 14-02-2020 12:50am

There are now glimpses of the Picard we knew coming through.

Much better episode and I think we now have our crew in place.

FutureGuy · 14-02-2020 12:51am

Burty330 wrote: »

Poory paced nonsequitur story-telling of punishing banality. Don't really care anymore to take my review further than that.

You clearly hate Picard, “Klutzmann” et al...

Why on earth are you even watching.

Evade · 14-02-2020 1:00am

This is painfully slow. Next week is the midpoint and it's still just getting started. I have to wonder if they changed from say 8 to 10 episodes on short notice. No doubt this is a really good looking series but I think the story could have done with a few more passes and some of the costume and set choices are odd to say the least.

I was prepared to drop this entirely if the Borg ritual bit had been serious.

Random thoughts as I watched the episode:

Prime thumbnail: The man from Chateaux Picard, he say yes
Planetary Shield?
I miss the grey Romulan aesthetic
Picard really rocking the white man's burden thing
Why does the Romulan refugee camp look so rustic, barely any technology?
Warp effect really has a sense of speed
Handy way to cheap out on sets
That first officer respect...
Jurati is the audience surrogate it is completely baffling
The Romulan secret police have an internal enemy...
Absolute candour sounds like hell
What's with this and STD's unnecessary alien language scenes?
JJ is that you? So much lens flare
Rafi's sass makes me miss Burnham's arrogance
Cash
Rapiers? What are they Klingons?
Romulan ale
Borg rituals? He better be pulling her leg
He was
Data can't be the only one to ever have saved him why is he so fixated?
How can he say bind your sword with a straight face it's so cheesy
Taking down the sign was so dumb. What ever happened to the Prime Directive?
Nice to see Emerson Gear have expanded their market to the former Romulan Empire
The Quark maneuver
Backswords
Is that Romulan banjo music in the background?
He's probably planted seed more than once
Human looking robots with an alleged plan? Not again
Space handbrake. Why can't they just go to warp?
Of all the things I expected Seven to be doing this wasn't one of them

fritzelly · 14-02-2020 1:06am

Weird most thought last weeks episode was slow and this week great and I'm the opposite
Really thought we would get to the story this week but it was just another set up episode
The whole recruiting took up too much of the episode and how did the they destroy the bird of prey so easy - just ripped thru its wing. Even in TNG that wouldn't haven't happened
Thought that whole part was very sloppy to just introduce Seven

AllForIt · 14-02-2020 5:24am

Seven of Nine looks well is about the best I can say.

This whole series so far has echos of other scifi/fantasy - The Matrix (green accents on Borg ship and especially the sweeping camera movements), LOTR's (Romulan's doing Elvish complete with swords and long hair style), Star Wars (Han Solo, procured ship).

This accents thing I don't get. Irish Romulan's and posh boy English? I mean, they are not from earth so it doesn't make much sense. They are supposed to be actors after all.

Oh and I was right, the hologram is changing characteristics from episode to episode.

silverharp · 14-02-2020 9:20am

The first 4 episodes should been an opening double episode. 4 episodes of The Orville would have been more fun. Still hoping it improves

14-02-2020 9:50am

silverharp wrote: »

The first 4 episodes should been an opening double episode. 4 episodes of The Orville would have been more fun. Still hoping it improves

I said something similar.

As far as story progression we should be at 2 of 10. Not 4 of 10. And I could write a more plausible way to introduce 7 of 9.

Maybe a few less sex scenes of Soji and the Romulan(who we already know is bad), and less JL-chick bemoaning her loss of career and there might be more room.

Visually, a Romulan Samurai bodyguard looks great, but I can't help think of the scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark, with the sword wielding attacker and Indy just shoots him.

silverharp · 14-02-2020 10:24am

Deleted User wrote: »

I said something similar.

As far as story progression we should be at 2 of 10. Not 4 of 10. And I could write a more plausible way to introduce 7 of 9.

Maybe a few less sex scenes of Soji and the Romulan(who we already know is bad), and less JL-chick bemoaning her loss of career and there might be more room.

Visually, a Romulan Samurai bodyguard looks great, but I can't help think of the scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark, with the sword wielding attacker and Indy just shoots him.

Im not really digging Swindon Spock. As for the Romulan Samurai

https://twitter.com/Trekkie_47_1701/status/1227215744859090944

Burty330 · 14-02-2020 10:52am

Narek introduced Sogey to an old Borg tradition of sliding across the oil slicked corridors without shoes. Silly me for expecting some expanded insight into Borg lore and history. I should have known better.

seamus · 14-02-2020 10:53am

Probably a bit too much of an elven/samurai thing going on with Elnor alright, but easily explained as being a kind of convergent development (sword warriors across cultures all tend to pick similar looks) or whatever.

I did enjoy that. Literally 30 seconds before I sat down a notification popped up on my phone with a headline saying that the episode sacrificed quality for more backstory, but I disagree.

The Romulan backstory is coming through in dribs and drabs. It seems Picard's grandstanding with Starfleet didn't go down well. Obviously plenty of people felt that he should have stuck with Starfleet and kept trying to help. His decision to quit and go sit in his vineyard was seen as abandonment. And that weighs heavily on Picard.

They're setting Elron up as the "Data" in this group. A boy, barely a man, with extraordinary talents and intelligence, fiercely loyal to Picard, but severely lacking in social and personal skills, that he will learn from Picard. I'm OK with that. He'll probably be a bit intense until they shake his character out.

I loved Seven's entrance. It seemed really odd for Picard to instantly recognise her, but I have to keep reminding myself that 20 years have passed. Seven would be infamous.

The Romulan kissy-face thing is grating on me a little bit. They don't really have any chemistry, and he comes across more like a "rabbit in the headlights" rather than a stone cold Tal Shiar agent. I am liking though that we get to see the characters more "humanised" than we ever did in the older series. We're seeing more of the humdrum day-to-day lives that we never saw before.

Still have a gut feeling that there's a tie-in with Discovery here. Soji being "The Destroyer", talk of the "end of all life", and Maddox has somehow magically created a biological android that the top expert believed was 1,000 years away. When is the last time we saw an AI that looked and acted completely human? Discovery.

TheIrishGrover · 14-02-2020 10:53am

Y'know, they were able to reissue "Cats" digitally in cinemas to improve CGI. Couldn't they just do a quick dub of "JL"?

Anyway, pretty good episode. Not the best in the world but pretty good.

I like all the Emergency Insert-requirement-here Hologram thing. I like the idea that they all came as a sort of package. The whole hospitality hologram being pretty much not required was pretty funny (I F*cking HATE that holgram).

I don't know if it's intentional or not (I hope it is) but I find it funny that each hologram is pretty much a stereotype: The posh, efficient Brit doctor. The "Farehaven" Oirish navigator. The surly, tattoed (Portugese?) weapons officer, the gay hospitality hologram.

I HOPE they are intended to be OTT cos if not then somebody really needs to have a word the writers about diversity

But I look at them as the current thinking of Cloud Technology. All the buzzwords are about "Agile": Create and destroy as requirements demand: Need a navigator? Not the whole time. Just spin him up as required. Need a weapons officer?

As for the rest of the episode. Pretty good but had its issues (IMHO of course)

The Good

Seven of Nine's ship scene (Initially I thought it was gonna be Orla Brady "Saved yer holes, ya feckin' eejits"). I forgot Jeri Ryan was in the credits this episode.
"I f*cking HATE that hologram"
The confrontation with the Romulan senator. Initially I thought their resentment of Picard was pretty unrealistic. None of them would have been there but for his efforts. But the senator's speech was pretty good. You can see how anger and mistrust could lead to people coming to that conclusion. Especially a people who so distrusted outsiders. They are not going to change their mind overnight. And, y'know, there may even have been some truth in it (From a Starfleet POV as opposed to Picard's POV)
The chat with Romulan Ronin: "Now you need me, you come back". Thought it was a good scene and fits with how he treated other characters by simply ignoring them for 14 years.

The Bad

JL
I find "Energetic younger flashback Picard" quite out of character. Picard was always quite reserved. TNG Picard (Only about 5 or 6 years before the flashbacks) would not have been as animated as he is in this episode's flashback.

The Meh

Romulan Ronin: While I liked his scene with Picard above I hope that's not going to be the only development of his character. I hope he's not just going to be there to just look cool with a couple of swords on his back and spouting trite way-of-the-warrior type philosophy.
I like Alison Pill but her character hasn't done much yet.
OK, now the band's together, get on with the story

seamus · 14-02-2020 11:02am

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

I like all the Emergency Insert-requirement-here Hologram thing. I like the idea that they all came as a sort of package. The whole hospitality hologram being pretty much not required was pretty funny (I F*cking HATE that holgram).

I don't know if it's intentional or not (I hope it is) but I find it funny that each hologram is pretty much a stereotype: The posh, efficient Brit doctor. The "Farehaven" Oirish navigator. The surly, tattoed (Portugese?) weapons officer, the gay hospitality hologram.

It's definitely intentional. In his boredom he has modified the emergency holograms to all look like him with different stereotype personalities.

He called this one "Emmett", which I assume is because it's called the EMErgency Tactical Hologram or something.

A nice touch in this case was the "lazy gringo" stereotype where he seems to be just sitting there and not doing anything. Of course, he doesn't need to touch anything, he's integrated into the ship's systems and can do whatever he wants without touching the controls. The purpose of the hologram is to provide an entity for the crew to talk to directly about tactical.

Evade · 14-02-2020 1:34pm

Gringo refers to non latinos, usually Americans.

Rawr · 14-02-2020 2:39pm

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

The Bad
JL

I find "Energetic younger flashback Picard" quite out of character. Picard was always quite reserved. TNG Picard (Only about 5 or 6 years before the flashbacks) would not have been as animated as he is in this episode's flashback.

This threw me off a little too. It felt less like Jean Luc Picard, and more like Patrick Steward himself who had gone to help the Romulans in those scenes. They were still good scenes...but that wasn't Picard.

All-round OK episode, with my main complaint being the scenes on the Cube. They teased us with a possible reveal of what the Borg had done to that transport ship, which hasn't paid off yet. Teased us with a Borg "ritual" which was just a setup. Instead we get a continuation of a romance angle that frankly is quite boring.

Also more of the cartoonishly evil double agent sister; who I'm also currently bored of:
"Get that information out of Soji, or I will use my *evil* to extract it from her!! MU HA HA HA HAAAA!"
It's just....I don't care....she's far too 2-Dimensional

Goodshape · 14-02-2020 3:26pm

various wrote:

get on with the story

I _really_ didn't mind that in this episode. I feel like arriving on $planet for $reasons and discovering / learning about $things is what I'd been waiting for.

They're obviously not going to conclude any big story points in episode four of a ten part series. They'll get there evenutally, or one piece at a time. That's just how TV works, isn't it?

In the meantime, $planet for $reasons and learning more about $things sounds good to me!

TheIrishGrover · 14-02-2020 4:53pm

Goodshape wrote: »

I _really_ didn't mind that in this episode. I feel like arriving on $planet for $reasons and discovering / learning about $things is what I'd been waiting for.

They're obviously not going to conclude any big story points in episode four of a ten part series. They'll get there evenutally, or one piece at a time. That's just how TV works, isn't it?

In the meantime, $planet for $reasons and learning more about $things sounds good to me!

I have concrete information from an inside source **

The last scene will see Picard at the artifact, quite traumatised given his history with The Borg. As he walks through the cube, all the ex-Borg will turn to him, looking at him like some kind of messiah. He will stop and turn to the sound of a voice. Data will appear, complete in his TNG-era uniform and say: "We have been waiting. Welcome, Captain. Or should I say: Welcome HOME Locutous"

Den den dennnnnnnn. Oh and the eeeeeevil sister will be... looped arm-in-arm with Data showing she's no problem with anatomically-correct synthetics. (It's Star Trek so evil means sexy times)

** this is a lie

Stark · 14-02-2020 5:47pm

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

** this is a lie

Damnit.

Anyway, you just described the plot to First Contact. (Just replace evil sister with Borg Queen).

Yester · 14-02-2020 6:26pm

As long as one good thing happens every episode, I'm happy enough. This week it was Seven of Nine.

pixelburp · 14-02-2020 6:53pm

I enjoyed that episode more than last week's. Though the feel of Tolkien coming off of that Romulan order was strong. All very mythological. The old war bird was a nice cameo and IMO had a good tie in with the canon; I can imagine a whole industry of mothballed tech being used by privateers (IIRC, the Mandalorian did the exact same thing with one of its episodes and an old ATST).

Yeah again the pacing could be better, but I enjoyed the story contained within so forgave the dithering. At least the twin is in one place so there won't be too much "shucks you just missed her!" nonsense. Though I'm prepared for season 1 ending with our heroes only just meeting the twin before making their escape.

Again minus points for the surprise at the end being completely blown by the trailers.

marcbrophy · 14-02-2020 9:53pm

Anyone catch the little head tilt thing that Soji did as she was walking with Narek to the "Borg Ritual"?
Was very reminiscent of Data when he would find thing "curious"

AMKC · 15-02-2020 12:51am

Just watched it there now.

I have to say that I struggled to get through that episode. It felt more like ''Lord of The Rings The Fellowship'' than Star Trek for most of it what with the recruiting and the swords and swordfights but that ending with the Romulan Bord of Prey and then Seven coming onboard was worth it. I had guessed it was her. I don't think Romulans would struggle. They had a whole planet there with lots of resources on it and they are a very resorceful people that have been through a lot. I think they would have thrived and started a new Romulas on that world. I thought the Romulan BOP looked stunning. I liked Sevens ship as well. It looked cooler than the ship they are on.

velo.2010 · 15-02-2020 12:56am

marcbrophy wrote: »

Anyone catch the little head tilt thing that Soji did as she was walking with Narek to the "Borg Ritual"?
Was very reminiscent of Data when he would find thing "curious"

A nice touch by Jonathon Frakes, I reckon!

McDermotX · 15-02-2020 1:11am

As bad as anything Discovery has produced.

Was hoping for a sign of immediate improvement, but it's just continuing its slide from its middling opener.

Highlights.....probably the reaction of Picard when transported back onboard, plus maybe seeing the Bird of Prey.
Lowlights.....everything else.

AMKC · 15-02-2020 1:18am

fritzelly wrote: »

Weird most thought last weeks episode was slow and this week great and I'm the opposite
Really thought we would get to the story this week but it was just another set up episode
The whole recruiting took up too much of the episode and how did the they destroy the bird of prey so easy - just ripped thru its wing. Even in TNG that wouldn't haven't happened
Thought that whole part was very sloppy to just introduce Seven

Yes I agree the BOP was destroyed to easy but otherwise I felt the space battle was the best part of this episode and was delighted vto see Seven.

Rawr wrote: »

This threw me off a little too. It felt less like Jean Luc Picard, and more like Patrick Steward himself who had gone to help the Romulans in those scenes. They were still good scenes...but that wasn't Picard.

All-round OK episode, with my main complaint being the scenes on the Cube. They teased us with a possible reveal of what the Borg had done to that transport ship, which hasn't paid off yet. Teased us with a Borg "ritual" which was just a setup. Instead we get a continuation of a romance angle that frankly is quite boring.

Also more of the cartoonishly evil double agent sister; who I'm also currently bored of:
"Get that information out of Soji, or I will use my *evil* to extract it from her!! MU HA HA HA HAAAA!"
It's just....I don't care....she's far too 2-Dimensional

I like her.

Deleted User wrote: »

I said something similar.

As far as story progression we should be at 2 of 10. Not 4 of 10. And I could write a more plausible way to introduce 7 of 9.

Maybe a few less sex scenes of Soji and the Romulan(who we already know is bad), and less JL-chick bemoaning her loss of career and there might be more room.

Visually, a Romulan Samurai bodyguard looks great, but I can't help think of the scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark, with the sword wielding attacker and Indy just shoots him.

And I could write a more plausible way to introduce 7 of 9.

I thought the way they introduced Seven was good and even do I guessed it was her there was still a big smile on my face when she came onboard.

It reminded me of ''Lord Of the Rings'' the first film.

Yester wrote: »

As long as one good thing happens every episode, I'm happy enough. This week it was Seven of Nine.

And the space fight. The rest of the episode was a slog but it was worth it for the spacefight and for Seven coming onboard.

15-02-2020 7:42am

That’s the first one that I’ve liked so far.

Also, 4 weeks in, there has never been a more needed ’skip intro’ button.

Sad Professor · 15-02-2020 1:10pm

I liked it more than last week's but that's not saying much. Raffi is still a bad actor. And she's been joined by the Australian samurai Romulan.

Chabon and Duff are terrible writers. But they haven't made it easy for themselves by pulling Picard out of Starfleet. I pointed out months ago that one of the biggest challenges this show faced was getting Picard right. Like most of the characters on the various shows, his character was defined by the uniform, the ship and its crew. Star Trek has always been a show about Starfleet officers. The fact that the post-Berman shows have frequently confused Starfleet and the Federation isn't really surprising given that we got little sense of what the Federation was really like. Anytime the shows/films tried to show us the non-Starfleet world of the 23rd/24th century the results have been mixed.

I admire this show for trying to build a fuller picture of the universe and exploring who Picard is out of the uniform/ship/crew of TNG, but it comes across less like the producers wanting to explore new territory and more like them simply not being particularly familiar with the previous shows and wanting to avoid the continuity as much as possible.

Sparko · 15-02-2020 1:31pm

fritzelly wrote: »

Weird most thought last weeks episode was slow and this week great and I'm the opposite
Really thought we would get to the story this week but it was just another set up episode
The whole recruiting took up too much of the episode and how did the they destroy the bird of prey so easy - just ripped thru its wing. Even in TNG that wouldn't haven't happened
Thought that whole part was very sloppy to just introduce Seven

Wasn't that Romulan ship the kind that was around during Kirk's era? So quite dated by the time of this show?

Evade · 15-02-2020 1:48pm

I think it was the clean cut through the wing, phaser damage used to be more indiscriminate vapourising.

TheValeyard · 15-02-2020 2:14pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

That’s the first one that I’ve liked so far.

Also, 4 weeks in, there has never been a more needed ’skip intro’ button.

There is a skip into

15-02-2020 2:16pm

TheValeyard wrote: »

There is a skip into

I know there is. I meant I thought the intro might grow on me but it’s horrendous.

Spear · 15-02-2020 2:49pm

Sparko wrote: »

Wasn't that Romulan ship the kind that was around during Kirk's era? So quite dated by the time of this show?

It's about a century old, and gets called out as an antique in the episode. Star Trek Online refers to them as a T'liss class, but that's isn't full canon.

TheValeyard · 15-02-2020 8:05pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

I know there is. I meant I thought the intro might grow on me but it’s horrendous.

It reminds me of the show 'Fringe'

velo.2010 · 15-02-2020 8:22pm

Sad Professor wrote: »

Anytime the shows/films tried to show us the non-Starfleet world of the 23rd/24th century the results have been mixed.

Like Insurrection!

Yeah, anything outside of Starfleet comes across as a little like fantasy than science fiction... the difference between Star Trek and Star Wars.

There is hope for some good character interaction as the show goes along. As mentioned previously, Dr. Jurati has been underutilised since episode one.

Haven't looked at next weeks promo, but we seem to be getting a new character each week for Picard to interact with. Teasing old character returns has been a feature and, IMO, is a disingenuous way of raising the anticipation of fans as we build towards the end of the series. I don't think viewers are invested enough in the actual storyline as they are with seeing old faces and nods to the Trek universe we know.

TBH though, it would just be nice to see a familiar looking starship.

Evade · 15-02-2020 8:53pm

velo.2010 wrote: »

TBH though, it would just be nice to see a familiar looking starship.

If it was going to be crewed by holgrams anyway not Han Solo could have acquired an old Starfleet ship, maybe even a constellation class.

15-02-2020 9:33pm

- why does everyone always play bach cello prelude 1 from the suites. Have you not heard how awesome the rest is

- jay ell

- 'tell central station it's me' 'yeah they weren't impressed' - they're really driving home this "picard isn't cool anymore" thing

- who's the romulan elf. Ahh it's the young lad. Hahaha he's an elf now

- really like soji's makeup
- not much candour going in with yer wan
- young lad is gona show up and save picard now.. There he is
- pls stop saying "bind yourself to my cause"

- ahhhhh seven of nine!!!

15-02-2020 9:39pm

TheValeyard wrote: »

It reminds me of the show 'Fringe'

Looooove the intro to fringe so much!i actually keep thinking bsg when i hear the picard intro

pixelburp · 15-02-2020 9:57pm

I did laugh at the unintentional hilariry that the big "Borg ritual", complete with an overblown romantic musical score, was sliding around on the floor in your socks

AMKC · 15-02-2020 9:57pm

Originally Posted by velo.2010 View Post
TBH though, it would just be nice to see a familiar looking starship.

Yes me too.

Evade wrote: »

If it was going to be crewed by holgrams anyway not Han Solo could have acquired an old Starfleet ship, maybe even a constellation class.

Or a Miranda class ship.

Even a Nova class ship would have been cool.

delly · 15-02-2020 10:12pm

I liked this week's episode and was in the dark regarding who would beam over, so that was some nice anticipation of which old face it would be.

My only issue is any scene that takes place on the Borg cube, as soon as it's on screen I cringe and zone out.

5uspect · 15-02-2020 10:49pm

Still finding it pretty meh. I had hopes of more exploration of the issues with the Romulan diaspora but this felt rushed.

Borg Cube stuff was awful this episode.

I just want some ****ing new Star Trek.

pah · 15-02-2020 11:20pm

Its poor overall IMO

Picard 1x04 - "Absolute Candour" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

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Picard 1x04 - "Absolute Candour" [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]