Picard 1x04 - "Absolute Candour" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

_Kaiser_

Thargor wrote: »

That LotR Elf they just introduced is a jump-the-shark moment. I hate their ship aswell, bland generic Mass Effect/videogame looking thing. How entertaining would it be to have had Picard and crew tearing off in an old mothballed Constitution Class or Bird of Prey? You could ge whole eps out of just keeping it flying. 4 eps in and we're well into dud territory Im afraid.

It would have been cool if he'd pulled the Stargazer out of mothballs - they did get it back from the Ferengi after all, and it was still flyable.

Evade

I would have liked to have seen how Picard would pull the Star Trek III heist.

_Kaiser_

Evade wrote: »

I would have liked to have seen how Picard would pull the Star Trek III heist.

Any excuse to post this scene

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkJ3--2K7yo

Definitely one of the best scenes in the franchise IMO. The music makes it!

Evade

Thinking about it a bit more stealing a ship could have had much more story potential. Have Rafi still be in Starfleet and throw her career away to help Picard do the right thing roping Rios in along the way. Then there could be the race between the legitimate Starfleet forces trying to recover the stolen ship and the Romulans in Starfleet Intelligence trying to take them out covertly. It would also mean the first four episodes wouldn't be dithering about because when you steal a ship you kind of have to act quickly.

Acosta

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Any excuse to post this scene

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkJ3--2K7yo

Definitely one of the best scenes in the franchise IMO. The music makes it!

James Horner's music for Star Trek 2 and 3 is the best of the lot.


This show doesn't feel like Star Trek at all. For all the bad writing I warmed to Discovery a lot quicker. Get Kurtzman away from Star Trek please.

The Megaphone

This is super petty but it really annoyed me - when Picard froze the programme in the holodeck; the birds stopped flying but the fire kept burning!! :eek:

AllForIt

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Any excuse to post this scene

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkJ3--2K7yo

Definitely one of the best scenes in the franchise IMO. The music makes it!

James Horner's score to that scene is simply magical. He worked on Wrath of Khan and Search for Spock. Up there with the likes of John Williams. Utter tragedy he died in a aircraft accident some years ago. His death was for me one of the biggest losses to the musical arts, which didn't get much of a mention in popular media.

Varik

The Megaphone wrote: »

This is super petty but it really annoyed me - when Picard froze the programme in the holodeck; the birds stopped flying but the fire kept burning!! :eek:

The other holographic Light sources also didn't stop, if they had room would have gone dark.

5uspect

Varik wrote: »

The other holographic Light sources also didn't stop, if they had room would have gone dark.

The light from the fire wouldn’t stop, it would just stop animating.

Johnny Storm

Stark wrote: »

The most gruesome moment for me had to be the transporter accident in Star Trek: TMP.

+ 1 big time

TheValeyard

Nah, the scene of Neelix in the bath tub is far worse

Stark

I always wondered wtf Kes was doing with him. That relationship had such a creepy grooming vibe to it.

Evade

Stark wrote: »

I always wondered wtf Kes was doing with him. That relationship had such a creepy grooming vibe to it.

Weird as it is at 1 year old she was an adult so it wasn't grooming, more like taking advantage of her naivety. And once she got a bit more broad experience she did dump him.

Harry Kim in one of the alternate futures was much, much, more groomy. Marrying Kes and Tom's daughter when he would have been uncle Harry for the first two or so years of her life.

odyssey06

*cough* all the talk of creepy stuff in Voyager is spoiling this Picard spoiler thread for me *cough*

I'm declaring this space a Neelix free zone.

TheValeyard

odyssey06 wrote: »

*cough* all the talk of creepy stuff in Voyager is spoiling this Picard spoiler thread for me *cough*

I'm declaring this space a Neelix free zone.

Wait until you see episode five of Picard!

Stark

http://nooooooooooooooo.com/

I'm confident he's the reason all knowledge of quantum slipstream and transwarp technologies were destroyed immediately after Voyager's return.

odyssey06

TheValeyard wrote: »

Wait until you see episode five of Picard!

You have just spoiled episode five on MULTIPLE LEVELS.

Stark

The reason he appears in the episode is because he and 7of9 are an item now.

TheValeyard

Stark wrote: »

The reason he appears in the episode is because he and 7of9 are an item now.

He teams up with Michael Burnham in Discovery S3. Neelix gets frozen in time to be revived by the crew of the Discovery, to help rebuild the Federation.

H3llR4iser

Pretty much the same as I said before - could be better, can't complain considering the state of TV productions these days - "best quality ever" my arse - it's just a constant influx of "oh we're all so bad and we're all gonna die" crud for years now. You'd wonder exactly when emo kids took over productions .

It's a sad state really when people look back at Star Trek TOS/TNG and go like "oh that wouldn't work today, too optimistic, too NAIVE". It's not like these came out when a twitchy, nervous mess of a CO, in a base somewhere in Ohio or Siberia, could trigger an ICBM launch leading to the end of the world in mere minutes.

My guess - the pace is going to accelerate a bit from now; Afterall, we're learning there is already a LOT of stuff in motion, happening while Picard sat quietly in his vineyard..."waiting to die", in his own words.

As for the "fantasy / medieval" looks, I don't like it either but I can't deny it's been a theme in Star Trek since TOS; Many times we've been shown realities outside of Starfleet, we've seen stuff that looks like it's out of a Talkien tale or "Arabian Nights". That doesn't just apply to the "alien planet of the week": Qo'nos, Bajor and even Vulcan itself were shown as being relatively low-tech; Romulus and Cardassia Prime were given mixed treatments - you'd see very "Starfleet-esque" offices and HQs, then cut to a street market that looks like 12th century Earth.

Evade wrote: »

Prime thumbnail: The man from Chateaux Picard, he say yes

:D:D I had the exact same thought; The idea - I think - was that he was on shore leave. He says he's gonna stay a few days.

Evade wrote: »

What's with this and STD's unnecessary alien language scenes?

I hate these too - but I guess it's to avoid the internet dim-dums going "doh, it's silly, the aliens speak English, duh!".

Evade wrote: »

Rafi's sass makes me miss Burnham's arrogance

Never.

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe a few less sex scenes of Soji and the Romulan(who we already know is bad), and less JL-chick bemoaning her loss of career and there might be more room.

Yeah we all know - he's gonna be the "turn around" character. Probably gonna kill his "sister" as well.

Rawr wrote: »

Also more of the cartoonishly evil double agent sister; who I'm also currently bored of:
"Get that information out of Soji, or I will use my *evil* to extract it from her!! MU HA HA HA HAAAA!"
It's just....I don't care....she's far too 2-Dimensional

Mmm...can't say I dislike her IN THE SLIGHTEST, to be honest, 2-Dimensional or not, I'll take that, many thanks

Aside, there's probably a bit of a reference to the unnamed "Romulan Commander" from TOS in her.

AMKC wrote: »

Originally Posted by velo.2010 View Post
TBH though, it would just be nice to see a familiar looking starship.

Yeah, it was nice to see the old relic of a Bird of Prey, but I'm still waiting to see a full-fledged Starfleet cruiser...and boy would I love to see a refitted/updated D'Deridex Warbird (I'm sure the Tal Shiar kept a stash of these). Maybe even a Valdore/Norexan.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

After a strong opening episode, it's fast dropping into familiar Discovery territory in regards look, tone and "complex" characters that don't seem particularly likeable - they even have their own "science geek" version of Tilly!

I see what you're saying, and agree to a point - but to me it's still way ahead of Discovery; Four episodes in, we know pretty much a bunch of characters, their backstories, their motivations. Not bad for a show that, literally, is titled with the name of its main character; It took discovery nearly two seasons to even name some characters, as it was too busy telling us how great Wesley Crusher II Burnham was.

Stark

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Yeah we all know - he's gonna be the "turn around" character. Probably gonna kdrill his "sister" as well.

FYP

Evade

The scene between the Alabaman Romulans about Soji was bad. We know Soji will be fine because only Cersei Romulan threatened her. Had Jaime Romulan cut Cersei off and threatened Soji it might have seemed like she was in some actual danger but no she'll be fine because he caught feelings.

Did anyone else smirk at the seed planting line? No? Am I the only juvenile one here?

coffee_cake

Evade wrote: »

The scene between the Alabaman Romulans about Soji was bad. We know Soji will be fine because only Cersei Romulan threatened her. Had Jaime Romulan cut Cersei off and threatened Soji it might have seemed like she was in some actual danger but no she'll be fine because he caught feelings.

Did anyone else smirk at the seed planting line? No? Am I the only juvenile one here?

no i defs did :pac:

FutureGuy

I’m greatly annoyed after 4 episodes, even though i have reviewed them pretty favourably.

It’s been average fare with them cramming real world politics down our throats and eviscerating everything about what we know of the federation and Picard himself to tell that story that Patrick Stewart clearly wants told.

I forgave Discovery for a lot of things because they weren’t screwing with the “present era” of TNG, DS9 and VOY. Thats MY trek.

But the writing and character choices are so bloody awful, I’m dreading what happens next.

Picard has become this greedy, self-indulgent man. You might say “but 20 years have passed”, but there is no way in any universe that Picard ever abandons Elnor for 14 years and only comes for him when he is needed. And remember, that’s just after Nemesis when all is as is ok the Federation so little would have changed in that time.

It’s also such poor writing when we have to read comics and watch actor interviews to get more an understanding of it.

Myself and my brother are lifelong fans and we’re are both deeply disappointed as we reflect on 4 eps as a whole. I’ve watched each one at least 3 times and all 4 in one. There are good momens but the writing, some acting and the respect for this era is so poor, its laughable how it gotten to screen.

Im currently watching the Expanse (mid series 5) and its is everything I wish Picard was in terms of acting, writing and World-building.

silverharp

This is the problem with a non episodic format versus a series long story or more, unless its top drawer its going to feel like a chore to watch whereas getting a neatly packed parcel every episode gets you an instant pay off and if you miss one big deal.

H3llR4iser

FutureGuy wrote: »

Im currently watching the Expanse (mid series 5) and its is everything I wish Picard was in terms of acting, writing and World-building.

That's quite interesting - I quit The Expanse after season 2 (or whichever was the one ending with the ship being "disassembled" in Venus' atmosphere) as I found it to be an incoherent, confusing, jumbled mess with an inconclusive plot - I actually struggle to remember any of it. The whole thing looks to me so much more "magic & religion" than Sci-Fi.

silverharp wrote: »

This is the problem with a non episodic format versus a series long story or more, unless its top drawer its going to feel like a chore to watch whereas getting a neatly packed parcel every episode gets you an instant pay off and if you miss one big deal.

Can't agree more - TBH, I kinda hate the "overarching story" series have these days - they're all, essentialy, 10+ episodes movies. You can have a "main theme" going on while still doing self-contained episodes; DS9 pretty much did this with the Dominion war and even Discovery improved a little bit when they started having "sub-stories" spanning a single episode.

Evade

The other problem with the 10 episode arc is that if you don't like the premise you're out of luck. If you didn't like the premise of an episode of Star Trek before you'd probably get one you liked more the next week.

Johnny Storm

FutureGuy wrote: »

... there is no way in any universe that Picard ever abandons Elnor for 14 years ...

+1
Same with the way he appears to have treated Ralphie (or whatever her name is)

AllForIt

silverharp wrote: »

This is the problem with a non episodic format versus a series long story or more, unless its top drawer its going to feel like a chore to watch whereas getting a neatly packed parcel every episode gets you an instant pay off and if you miss one big deal.

Totally agree. I had a hectic lifestyle in the late 90's so I could only pop into DS9 and Voyager now and again. Although I was a little bit lost with DS9 at times I did enjoy the occasional self contained episode's, but Voyager was better for that.

Discovery had only one episodic episode I can recall, the one where an antagonist went round in circles in a time loop hoping to get a different result each time. I enjoyed that episode. That was more like the Trek I enjoy.

And no matter how better Picard could possibly become, you can't just pop back and watch the odd episode like you can with Voyager or DS9. I know Voyager was not that popular in the Star Trek community but I do have my favorites like 'Counterpoint' and others that weren't particularly highly rated.

The Megaphone

AllForIt wrote: »

And no matter how better Picard could possibly become, you can't just pop back and watch the odd episode like you can with Voyager or DS9.

This is what surprises me with the format of Picard; given that it is being released on streaming services, in my opinion there would be greater repeat viewing and longevity to the show on the likes of CBS All Access & Amazon Prime if people could just pop in and watch their favourite 'everything neatly wrapped up' hour long standalone episodes!