American vs Irish police officers

mr_fegelien · 05-02-2020 6:57am #1

I've never understood the stereotype of police in the U.S. being donught eating pigs when in fact, they are in some ways more effective than Irish police officers in terms of policing.

Now, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want a harsh judicial system like that here but when you watch a show like Live PD on YouTube, you see how they make the Gardai look like kids with batons.

How many guards would run a mile to chase a suspect. But I suppose from their point of view, there's no need when you don't even have any weapons.

Samuel T. Cogley · 05-02-2020 6:59am

The US cops are such a diverse bunch. Some of the rural lads make our average guard look like a genius.

olestoepoke · 05-02-2020 7:02am

I lived in NY for 15 years and the difference I noticed is that you never see the Garda in Ireland compared to their presence in the US. Are we under policed? It could be weeks before I catch a glimpse of a Guard.

1o059k7ewrqj3n · 05-02-2020 7:03am

mr_fegelien wrote: »

How many guards would run a mile to chase a suspect. But I suppose from their point of view, there's no need when you don't even have any weapons.

Guards have been shot and run over in this country, and regularly punched, kicked and are spat at in the face.

The_Kew_Tour · 05-02-2020 7:12am

You don’t even need to go as far as America. Look at England. The English Police force are on another level compared to Garda here. Their Presence, Professionalism, Manner, are on a way different level.

Say a fight breaks out on Saturday night in nightclub for example. Here you be lucky to get 2 Garda here in space of 30 minutes and situation could last how long, over in UK they are at the scene within minutes, in big numbers and situation is dealt with in swift and professional manner and no passengers taken

Peregrinus · 05-02-2020 7:18am

US policing is hugely decentralised, and professional and training standards vary enormously. You can take it for granted that a show like Live PD, which is made with the co-operation of the police departments involved, is highly selective and is only showing you material that the police departments would like you to see.

The US is more heavily policed than Ireland - 298 police officers per 100,00 people in the US, as opposed to 265 in Ireland - but that statistic tells us nothing about the relative effectiveness or efficiency of US and Irish officers. Crime rates in Ireland are generally lower than in the US, which might suggest that Irish policing is more efficient, but of course that statistic is affected by a great many factors other than efficiency of police operations.

Montage of Feck · 05-02-2020 7:20am

Thankfully I don't to worry about being shot 23 times by the Guards after being pulled over for something innocuous. But anyway wikipedia states there are 17,985 different police agencies in the USA.

Peregrinus · 05-02-2020 7:21am

Montage of Feck wrote: »

Thankfully I don't to worry about being shot 23 times by the Guards after being pulled over for something innocuous.

Like I say, "professional and training standards vary enormously". That's kind of a problem if police officers are to be armed.

Salary Negotiator · 05-02-2020 7:31am

I wouldn’t be a fan of the shoot first, lie and cover-up second policy that many US PDs seem to operate under.

We have our own issues, too much depends on getting a decent or interested Garda when reporting less serious crimes but I wouldn’t want to replace our force with a US type force.

Except maybe on the roads, flood the motorways with traffic police and adopt a zero tolerance attitude to help improve driving standards.

Woke Hogan · 05-02-2020 8:15am

The Guards in Ireland are far from perfect themselves but at least we don’t suffer from the kind of despicable and evil institutionalised racism you see in the US.

What’s funny to me, though, is that you can slag off the Guards to your heart’s content here but any comparison with them and those jackbooted fascists over in the States can only be negative in casual conversation.

There was an “ask me anything” discussion on this website a few months ago where an American policeman fielded questions from the users. Any dissent and the bootlickers came out in force with their pathetic “we’re just having a bit of craic” bleating.

I wonder how many people here fantasise about implementing some of the tough policing from the States: having to call policemen “sir” like a serf to his lord, praising their shooting of a fleeing suspect in the back for having a trace of melanin in his pigmentation, turning another cheek to their police going home and viciously beating their wives. American police are scum.

KaneToad · 05-02-2020 8:22am

mr_fegelien wrote: »

I've never understood the stereotype of police in the U.S. being donught eating pigs when in fact, they are in some ways more effective than Irish police officers in terms of policing.
..

What's your measure of effectiveness? How good the US cops look on TV and in the movies??

Graces7 · 05-02-2020 8:30am

Would not live in or even visit the US if you paid me. Trigger happy police. I have almost always had good experiences when a Garda was needed here, The one exception was extraordinary! Was very glad he was not armed.

Winning_Stroke · 05-02-2020 8:30am

American vs Irish police officers

Yanks would win hands down.

Badly Drunk Boy · 05-02-2020 8:38am

KaneToad wrote: »

What's your measure of effectiveness? How good the US cops look on TV and in the movies??

Extra points if they're good-looking?

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 05-02-2020 9:47am

Woke Hogan wrote: »

What’s funny to me, though, is that you can slag off the Guards to your heart’s content here but any comparison with them and those jackbooted fascists over in the States can only be negative in casual conversation.

Irish Americans have long dominated US police departments on the East Coast, particularly the NYPD, whose current police commissioner is Dermot Shea. The name says it all — he's the son of two Irish emigrants. So many of these so-called "jackbooted fascists" have often originated from right here.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 05-02-2020 9:54am

Trenton Deep Gladiator wrote: »

Irish Americans have long dominated US police departments on the East Coast, particularly the NYPD, whose current police commissioner is Dermot Shea. The name says it all — he's the son of two Irish emigrants. So many of these so-called "jackbooted fascists" have often originated from right here.

Irish Americans are often an embarrassment.

steves2 · 05-02-2020 9:55am

Unfortunately I've been the victim of crime recently and so have talked with the guards quite a bit, the ones I've come across really are down to earth, sympathetic and easy to get along with. I think they're seriously under resourced hence you never see them around. Can't remember the last time I seen a guard on foot except to hop into a car. I don't think Irish people are serious on crime, we say it's terrible etc etc but allow governments to close down stations and don't make a big deal of it. Would not want the American style police force over here though, that's the other side of the coin and it actually doesn't seem to prevent crime given the crime rates.

seamus · 05-02-2020 9:55am

Most local sherriffs in the US are the guy who won a popular vote. They give him a badge, a gun, a budget and the right to apply the law as he sees fit, with no legal or police training.

Taken as a whole, the Gardai look like elite special forces compared to US cops.

Xertz · 05-02-2020 9:55am

The best approach would be to work on developing what we have. The Gardaí have had their issues, and they’re under resourced and often not visible enough but by and large our approach to policing is pretty good in Ireland.

In comparison, a lot of countries, notably the US but plenty of continental countries too, have police forces that are all about heavy handed enforcement.

We need more resources tackling organised crime and that would trickle down to reducing the drugs issues.

Also more visible presence on the streets and in public transit would solve a lot of the thuggish stuff that crops up.

Beyond that I think they do a pretty decent job and suit the culture here. Despite what you read on forums like this, I can’t see Irish people welcoming heavy handed policing like you see in parts of the continent and the US.
Culturally we are definitely more comfortable with the laid back approach.

whisky_galore · 05-02-2020 9:55am

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Irish Americans are often an embarrassment.

Yep. Tooralooraloora.

Woke Hogan · 05-02-2020 10:25am

Trenton Deep Gladiator wrote: »

Irish Americans have long dominated US police departments on the East Coast, particularly the NYPD, whose current police commissioner is Dermot Shea. The name says it all — he's the son of two Irish emigrants. So many of these so-called "jackbooted fascists" have often originated from right here.

Irish Americans are dewy eyed maudlin sops who also love to perpetuate the "we were slaves too" myth in order to devalue the black man's experiences in the US. So I couldn't give a **** about Irish Americans.

WrenBoy · 05-02-2020 10:52am

Woke Hogan wrote: »

Irish Americans are dewy eyed maudlin sops who also love to perpetuate the "we were slaves too" myth in order to devalue the black man's experiences in the US. So I couldn't give a **** about Irish Americans.

Any bites today ?

EmmetSpiceland · 05-02-2020 10:53am

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Irish Americans are often an embarrassment.

Some people want to give them the right to vote in “presidential” elections. Can you imagine that?

Woke Hogan · 05-02-2020 11:02am

WrenBoy wrote: »

Any bites today ?

Excuse me?

05-02-2020 11:07am

mr_fegelien wrote: »

I've never understood the stereotype of police in the U.S. being donught eating pigs when in fact, they are in some ways more effective than Irish police officers in terms of policing.

Now, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want a harsh judicial system like that here but when you watch a show like Live PD on YouTube, you see how they make the Gardai look like kids with batons.

How many guards would run a mile to chase a suspect. But I suppose from their point of view, there's no need when you don't even have any weapons.

I would.

I was talking to a taxi driver in Vegas. Her son was doing 5 years in the slammer. The sum of his crimes were:

Stole a car - strike 1
Caught with an 8-ball of blow - Strike 2
Stole a DVD from a shop - Strike 3, go directly to jail, mandatory minimum 5 years.

Sounds harsh, but if you had 2 strikes against you, why the flip would you risk jail to steal a DVD?

Meanwhile in Dublin, Anto is wandering around Crumlin with 56 convictions.

Quantum Erasure · 05-02-2020 11:08am

Winning_Stroke wrote: »

Yanks would win hands down.

Hands Up!

Raconteuse · 05-02-2020 11:08am

I've come to the conclusion that there are people who are literally incapable of distinguishing between some and all. Not just on the right, but people who ironically complain about racism at the same time.

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Some people want to give them the right to vote in “presidential” elections. Can you imagine that?

Jaysus, the anti Irish WASP crowd would have been saying that. But that kinda prejudice is ok.

Quantum Erasure · 05-02-2020 11:09am

WrenBoy wrote: »

Any bites today ?

There's one...

seamus · 05-02-2020 11:13am

Deleted User wrote: »

I would.

I was talking to a taxi driver in Vegas. Her son was doing 5 years in the slammer. The sum of his crimes were:

The 3 strikes rule neither reduces crime or reoffending rates.

Like all harsh penal systems, it's based on the fallacy that the only reason people don't commit crimes is because of the risk of punishment.

That's not the reality; people don't burgle houses, because they don't want to. People who burgle houses, want to. The risk of capture is merely a hindrance, nit a deterrent.

All the 3 strikes rule actually does is fill prisons up with poor people. It's popular in the US because prisons are private and get paid by head. So the US system is not interested in preventing crime, its primary motivation is getting people into prisons for profit.

CrankyHaus · 05-02-2020 11:14am

Irish and American policing are totally different: in culture, method, equipment, resources and threat environment.

A better comparison would be Irish to UK policing, as our policing model comes from the Peelian Principles that UK forces were based on and probably best exemplify today. Essentially it is the idea that policing must be by the consent and support of the community with restraint of force by the police.

The US model of increasingly militarised policing through force is not remotely attractive. But people criticising it from Ireland ignore the vastly different threat environment in the US. With the prevalence of guns and high crime rates over there any encounter can turn into a fatal shooting so police who value their lives have to adopt a more defensive approach that puts the lethal use of force on a hair trigger.

Witcher · 05-02-2020 11:18am

Deleted User wrote: »

I would.

I was talking to a taxi driver in Vegas. Her son was doing 5 years in the slammer. The sum of his crimes were:

Stole a car - strike 1
Caught with an 8-ball of blow - Strike 2
Stole a DVD from a shop - Strike 3, go directly to jail, mandatory minimum 5 years.

Sounds harsh, but if you had 2 strikes against you, why the flip would you risk jail to steal a DVD?

Meanwhile in Dublin, Anto is wandering around Crumlin with 56 convictions.

But your anecdote is evidence that it actually doesn't work so why would we implement it?

You argued against your own point.

Woke Hogan · 05-02-2020 11:18am

Raconteuse wrote: »

I've come to the conclusion that there are people who are literally incapable of distinguishing between some and all. Not just on the right, but people who ironically complain about racism at the same time.

Jaysus, the anti Irish WASP crowd would have been saying that. But that kinda prejudice is ok.

Of course, you don't mean ALL WASPs?

Odyssey 2005 · 05-02-2020 11:19am

Winning_Stroke wrote: »

Yanks would win hands down.

Unless they were playing hurlin.

Rodin · 05-02-2020 11:23am

seamus wrote: »

The 3 strikes rule neither reduces crime or reoffending rates.

Like all harsh penal systems, it's based on the fallacy that the only reason people don't commit crimes is because of the risk of punishment.

That's not the reality; people don't burgle houses, because they don't want to. People who burgle houses, want to. The risk of capture is merely a hindrance, nit a deterrent.

All the 3 strikes rule actually does is fill prisons up with poor people. It's popular in the US because prisons are private and get paid by head. So the US system is not interested in preventing crime, its primary motivation is getting people into prisons for profit.

Someone in prison does not burgle a house.
Of course it reduces further offending on the outside if the crim is banged up.

We are FAR too soft here. All about the offender and their 'rehabilitation' rather than protecting everyone else from their criminality.

BalcombeSt4 · 05-02-2020 3:06pm

Some good, some bad, same as any population.

I've met some wanker Guards who go way too hard on people, and others who aren't idiots & try to help young people away from crime.

Snails pace · 05-02-2020 6:32pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I would.

I was talking to a taxi driver in Vegas. Her son was doing 5 years in the slammer. The sum of his crimes were:

Stole a car - strike 1
Caught with an 8-ball of blow - Strike 2
Stole a DVD from a shop - Strike 3, go directly to jail, mandatory minimum 5 years.

Sounds harsh, but if you had 2 strikes against you, why the flip would you risk jail to steal a DVD?

Meanwhile in Dublin, Anto is wandering around Crumlin with 56 convictions.

Justice system here is a joke. Theres a bigger chance that I'd end up in jail protecting my property than the intruder would. The whole country is out of control. Rural crime, drugs, young lads think their gangsters. Life should mean life in jail, hard labour should be a thing and bring back the hanging as the grandmother said.

mr_fegelien · 05-02-2020 6:43pm

Criminologists say it's not harsh punishment that deters people (well they do up to a certain point) but the certainty of getting caught.

In NYC, they've put various law enforcement agencies around the city (NY State Trooper, NYPD, SWAT, FBI) so its hard to commit crime and even think about doing things when there are so many police officers around

tayto lover · 05-02-2020 6:43pm

You’ll likely get proper policing when you get proper sentencing from the courts.
They go hand in hand imo.
How demoralising must it feel to be dealing time after time with some lad who’s still walking around the town after having 56 charges in court yet never spent a minute locked up.

perrito caliente · 05-02-2020 7:02pm

Snails pace wrote: »

Justice system here is a joke. Theres a bigger chance that I'd end up in jail protecting my property than the intruder would. The whole country is out of control. Rural crime, drugs, young lads think their gangsters. Life should mean life in jail, hard labour should be a thing and bring back the hanging as the grandmother said.

You seem pretty excited. Do you need a hanky for your willy?

Snails pace · 05-02-2020 8:19pm

perrito caliente wrote: »

You seem pretty excited. Do you need a hanky for your willy?

All good thanks. Nothing like a good rant.

chrissb8 · 05-02-2020 9:31pm

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Irish Americans are often an embarrassment.

HEAR, HEAR! When an American of Irish descent says to me "I'm Irish!" all I think is no you're not. Your racist embarrassing ways are a shame to be associating with us. You are not Irish.

ThewhiteJesus · 05-02-2020 9:38pm

TJ Hooker, now there’s a cop

dxhound2005 · 05-02-2020 9:42pm

Life means Life, Three Strikes and your in for Life, is not working out great for the Americans. Their prisons are filling up with mostly infirm prisoners in their 80's and 90's.

I don't see the sense of locking up 18 year olds here for 70 or 80 years.

Raconteuse · 05-02-2020 9:46pm

chrissb8 wrote: »

HEAR, HEAR! When an American of Irish descent says to me "I'm Irish!" all I think is no you're not. Your racist embarrassing ways are a shame to be associating with us. You are not Irish.

My cousins over there have an Irish father (he emigrated in the 1970s) and one of them is married to a man whose father also emigrated to the U.S in the 70s. They are both very much in touch with their Irish roots and very interested and knowledgeable, visiting ireland frequently. I think that's only a positive.

Better than the self loathing nut jobs here.

Also they are not racist. Don't know where that came from...

feartuath · 05-02-2020 10:02pm

When I read the thread title I remembered the UTube clip of the sulky race on the Mallow / Cork road when the participants would not stop for the Guards as oncoming cars and trucks moved into the hard shoulder to avoid collision.

In the US the riders and horses would be put down.

Shady Grady · 05-02-2020 10:59pm

seamus wrote: »

Most local sherriffs in the US are the guy who won a popular vote. They give him a badge, a gun, a budget and the right to apply the law as he sees fit, with no legal or police training.

Taken as a whole, the Gardai look like elite special forces compared to US cops.

Sorry but your wrong there. Anyone in a law enforcement role has to complete and certify as an officer and agent of the jurisdiction they are in. With annual recerts done to keep their accreditations.

dreamers75 · 05-02-2020 11:12pm

Nearly got run over by a guard the other day, on his phone doing his serious police work as he drove into a shops car park unaware of anyone in front of him.

Would have a 50-50 rate of usefulness in any dealings I would have with them.

Main issue would be why are they allowed use their phones whilst driving but noone else is? Dont they have "tech" for that.

dxhound2005 · 05-02-2020 11:19pm

dreamers75 wrote: »

Nearly got run over by a guard the other day, on his phone doing his serious police work as he drove into a shops car park unaware of anyone in front of him.

Would have a 50-50 rate of usefulness in any dealings I would have with them.

Main issue would be why are they allowed use their phones whilst driving but noone else is? Dont they have "tech" for that.

I often see people driving and using their phones.

Shady Grady · 05-02-2020 11:25pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I often see people driving and using their phones.

Exactly, it is pointless making laws if no one enforces them. Recently they put up new signs in my neighbourhood about dog fouling increasing the fine to 4000 euros. But not one time do you see anyone strolling along enforcing it. Sidewalks are still a mine field.

dreamers75 · 05-02-2020 11:28pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I often see people driving and using their phones.

I often see it too but thats just idiots driving not people who are paid to enforce the no phones whilst driving law.

Often is a terrible word, I am shocked if I dont see someone using their phone whilst driving.

Stretch1432 · 07-10-2022 12:49pm

I have a quick question in relation to the difference between Irish and UK/American police. Is it true that a lot of investigation s are done by detective s or specialists units and the regular police just arrest and detain suspected offenders. Like do they just gather the evidence preserve scene and take statements and then it gets passed further up the line . Is there less paperwork in other police forces in comparison to Irish police .

American vs Irish police officers

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