General Election and Government Formation Megathread (see post #1)

Tell me how · 26-01-2020 04:51PM

sid waddell wrote: »

The real nature of politics is that it is an unglamorous grind. It's a game of persuasion at every level. It's boring negotiation, all democratic politicians have to work within huge constraints, and the nature of politics is that compromise is usually necessary. That's because human existence does not reside in a fantasy land where you get everything you want.

People who just dismiss all politicians don't realise any of this, or choose to reject that reality. What they are saying is: "there is no politician I trust to bring to reality the fantasy land that I desire".

Read the previous sentence again to understand Trump/Brexit etc. Trump and the Brexiteers promised a fantasy land divorced from all reality.

In other words, what such people are saying is: "I want a dictator".

Close. What they are saying is, I want my type of dictator.

Pronto63 · 26-01-2020 04:53PM

I don't seem to have permission to vote!

Not enough school places.
Not enough hospital beds.
Not enough housing stock.

Yet we want to increase the population by immigration!

Is immigration not the massive elephant in the room?

I wouldnt be anti-immigration as such but I would impose a 5 year suspension of all immigration.
5 years breathing space to sort things out before letting more people in.

wmahcm · 26-01-2020 04:55PM

pixelburp wrote: »

And I ask again, what do you do then if, with this "none of" option you get a result with a majority rejection? You say it's democratic to offer an option yet it would open up a possibility of a paralysis of governance, which is undemocratic. The referendum comparison doesn't track because a "no" tends to just mean sticking with the status quo of legislation. Clearly a no confidence can't equal "stick with the current candidates".

You can either spoil your vote, or indeed if you're feeling really adventurous, run yourself. About 15% of the dail are independents, which is quite sizable. Obviously that's glib but it's unclear how in a race of 10+ candidates you don't have a flavour that suits.

The most democratic NOTA option, in the unlikely event of NOTA winning the election is the current list of candidates have to stand down and be replaced by another. ( and before you try to claim that NOTA will end up in endless votes this is not true anywhere it's been put genuinely into practice . . voters are much more responsible than you like to pretend.) This option should be open to the public in a true democracy, not the the lies of you must either vote for people you don't want to elect, or spoil your vote.

iCareNotOneJot · 26-01-2020 04:56PM

Pronto63 wrote: »

I don't seem to have permission to vote!

Not enough school places.
Not enough hospital beds.
Not enough housing stock.

Yet we want to increase the population by immigration!

Is immigration not the massive elephant in the room?

Yeah but apparantly its racist to suggest having more immigration restrictions

wmahcm · 26-01-2020 04:57PM

Tell me how wrote: »

Close. What they are saying is, I want my type of dictator.

or in actual truth they don't want one of your dictators in a sham democratic process where they are forced to vote for one of them with no other option.

BarryD2 · 26-01-2020 05:11PM

Funchion I think her name is - waste of space, haven't heard a blip out of her since she got her bum into the seat a few years ago.

An Ciarraioch · 26-01-2020 05:25PM

Pronto63 wrote: »

I don't seem to have permission to vote!

Not enough school places.
Not enough hospital beds.
Not enough housing stock.

Yet we want to increase the population by immigration!

Is immigration not the massive elephant in the room?

I wouldnt be anti-immigration as such but I would impose a 5 year suspension of all immigration.
5 years breathing space to sort things out before letting more people in.

Unless you leave the EU, you can't suspend Freedom of Movement from the other member states.

wmahcm · 26-01-2020 05:29PM

Pronto63 wrote: »

I don't seem to have permission to vote!

Not enough school places.
Not enough hospital beds.
Not enough housing stock.

Yet we want to increase the population by immigration!

Is immigration not the massive elephant in the room?

I wouldnt be anti-immigration as such but I would impose a 5 year suspension of all immigration.

How are Irish governments and their paymasters going to force people to put up with

Not enough school places.
Not enough hospital beds.
Not enough housing stock.
Not enough childcare.
Not enough policing.
and continue to pay taxes to pay off the private debts of bankers, bondholders and developers for generations

unless you continue undercut their wages with cheap imported labour ?

AndrewJRenko · 26-01-2020 05:31PM

Eircom_Sucks wrote: »

I'm 39 and only ever voted once

Don't bother now as no political party ever backs up what they say they will do , they are all the same . Corrupt

They're really not. It might have been that way 30 years ago, but it's really not the way today. The vast majority of them are decent people who believe in trying to change the way things are done for the better, or whatever their opinion of 'better' is.

The 'curse on all your houses' is really a cop-out.

Grab All Association wrote: »

No point here in Tipp
Lowry
Mattie
Kelly
Cahill
Don’t think Seamus Healy will get in. That fake Fine Gael TD who has been claiming credit for everything the past few years might take his seat.

If only there was some way you could influence the outcome for Healy?

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

If we had this option, and it was truthfully and properly counted and reported, then a lot more would show up.

Are you suggesting that spoilt votes, or any votes, aren't truthfully and properly counted and reported in the current system?

Eric Cartman · 26-01-2020 05:34PM

Our insanely high taxes on the working
rampant crime - especially traveller drug gangs
immigration of unskilled economic migrants / direct provision
Planning permission restrictions like local needs stifling the building of houses
The insanely drawn out eviction process causing landlords to leave the market
The cost of commuting

in that order.

Eric Cartman · 26-01-2020 05:36PM

Thankfully Kildare North has a higher than average income and theres only 1 council estate in my locality so support is low , helps them even less that Reada Cronin is one of the more crackpot'y flavour of shinner.

Eric Cartman · 26-01-2020 05:40PM

To anyone voting green, pbp, workers party, solidarity or shinner : yes the OP is right, there is no point in voting, on the 8th crack another can, light a superking and watch a repeat of something on dave.

To people voting for one of the actual political parties : Voting is an integral part of our democracy to make our voice heard in the running of this country.

wmahcm · 26-01-2020 05:42PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

They're really not. It might have been that way 30 years ago, but it's really not the way today. The vast majority of them are decent people who believe in trying to change the way things are done for the better, or whatever their opinion of 'better' is.

In my former innocence / nativity I used to think that, until I worked directly for a long number of years with many Irish politicians . . . from Tánaistes to Ministers right down to local Councillors - I could count on one hand the number who genuinely cared for the common good of Irish society and proved it instead of just feathering their own nest and that of their own personal cronies. The ones that remained genuine and honest didn't last long too long either.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Are you suggesting that spoilt votes, or any votes, aren't truthfully and properly counted and reported in the current system?

Are you suggesting what's written on each of them is properly reported ?

wmahcm · 26-01-2020 05:45PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Our insanely high taxes on the working
rampant crime - especially traveller drug gangs
immigration of unskilled economic migrants / direct provision
Planning permission restrictions like local needs stifling the building of houses
The insanely drawn out eviction process causing landlords to leave the market
The cost of commuting

in that order.

There's a media ban / blackout on reporting most of those issues.

Manach · 26-01-2020 05:47PM

In my own locality, there is very little presence. Whilst I’m not the most au fait with present day politics, there are no Sinn Fein election posters/canvassers around indicating a minimum ground presence in this area of the constituency.

Notmything · 26-01-2020 05:50PM

Going to be selfish, tax for me. I'm right on the threshold for the higher rate so much as I want to working overtime just isn't worth it. Also the flat rate expense I claim is worth €20 a year.

Then there is the fact that they took the single parent tax credit that father's used to be able to claim and gave it to the mother, the logic being that many single mothers don't work so don't need it.

I know in theory I can claim it if my ex was to assign it to me but that's not possible when we barely communicate.

VinLieger · 26-01-2020 05:58PM

wmahcm wrote: »

Total tosh. The America public for example were given a choice between two dictators : either vote for scumbag A and their scum party who promises to screw ordinary working people and will, or scumbag B and their scum party who promises not to screw ordinary working people but will. The American presidential result could have been very different if there was third choice on the ballot . . none of the above.

There was at least a third choice if not a 4th choice on the ballot in all states, shows how much you know about the topic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election#Third_parties_and_independents

Whose fault is it if voters refuse to investigate the other options?

VinLieger · 26-01-2020 06:01PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

To anyone voting green, pbp, workers party, solidarity or shinner : yes the OP is right, there is no point in voting, on the 8th crack another can, light a superking and watch a repeat of something on dave.

To people voting for one of the actual political parties : Voting is an integral part of our democracy to make our voice heard in the running of this country.

Except that's not true in Ireland which is why we have the likes of the Healy-Raes, Lowry et al, these national representatives behave like local reps because that's what the people who vote for them want.

Eric Cartman · 26-01-2020 06:02PM

wmahcm wrote: »

There's a media ban / blackout on reporting most of those issues.

they want their broadcasting charge / bailout , they want spend spend spend and my vote wont be going near anyone who agrees with them.

VinLieger · 26-01-2020 06:04PM

Pensions and retirement, but not one single party or politician is being honest with the electorate about the fast approaching time bomb.

pc7 · 26-01-2020 06:05PM

Apathy! I’m sick of the whole lot of them, their bullsh1t, false promises, all as bad as each other.

Eric Cartman · 26-01-2020 06:05PM

VinLieger wrote: »

Except that's not true in Ireland which is why we have the likes of the Healy-Raes, Lowry et al, these national representatives behave like local reps because that's what the people who vote for them want.

As much as I despise the Healy Raes , I can completely see why people vote for them, independents should behave like local reps , it can only help, If you know that whatever government people vote for is going to shaft you in taxes, you may aswell vote for the lad who's going to make a playground and a road in your town a sticking point to prop up a government.

freshpopcorn · 26-01-2020 06:06PM

I'd say the economy, housing, crime, health cars, childcare.
In my experience the climate is at the bottom of a lot of people's list once they've a bit of money in there pockets but it's not cool to admit it.

Eric Cartman · 26-01-2020 06:08PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I'd say the economy, housing, crime, health cars, childcare.
In my experience the climate is at the bottom of a lot of people's list once they've a bit of money in there pockets but it's not cool to admit it.

its a complete non issue outside leafy suburbs of inner south dublin. Climate change is important in D4 to people like Hazel Chu . To somebody living outside the M50 it just seems like voting for kicking yourself in the face.

wmahcm · 26-01-2020 06:10PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

they want their broadcasting charge / bailout , they want spend spend spend and my vote wont be going near anyone who agrees with them.

it's not just RTE unfortunately

pc7 wrote: »

I’m sick of the whole lot of them, their bullsh1t, false promises, all as bad as each other.

so true, in reality for all the fuss . . this election will change absolutely nothing

wmahcm · 26-01-2020 06:12PM

VinLieger wrote: »

There was at least a third choice if not a 4th choice on the ballot in all states, shows how much you know about the topic

Whose fault is it if voters refuse to investigate the other options?

more rubbish, the media and everyone else only present the two candidates as an option

Eric Cartman · 26-01-2020 06:13PM

wmahcm wrote: »

it's not just RTE unfortunately

so true, in reality for all the fuss . . this election will change absolutely nothing

correct. The newspapers are angling for it too, INM want the broadcasting charge to be a big slush fund doled out to all the tv, radio and newspapers to keep the 'integrity of the media'

AndrewJRenko · 26-01-2020 06:15PM

wmahcm wrote: »

Are you suggesting what's written on each of them is properly reported ?

I've suggesting that votes are counted and reported properly, including spoiled votes. Are you suggesting otherwise?

wmahcm wrote: »

In my former innocence / nativity I used to think that, until I worked directly for a long number of years with many Irish politicians . . . from Tánaistes to Ministers right down to local Councillors - I could count on one hand the number who genuinely cared for the common good of Irish society and proved it instead of just feathering their own nest and that of their own personal cronies. The ones that remained genuine and honest didn't last long too long either.

Don't judge others by your own poor choices of employer.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

As much as I despise the Healy Raes , I

can completely see why people vote for them, independents should behave like local reps , it can only help, If you know that whatever government people vote for is going to shaft you in taxes, you may aswell vote for the lad who's going to make a playground and a road in your town a sticking point to prop up a government.

And then you should complain vociferously when national services like transport, health, education aren't working as desired, because you chose to put a gobsh1te in a strategic, national role.

wmahcm · 26-01-2020 06:22PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I've suggesting that votes are counted and reported properly, including spoiled votes. Are you suggesting otherwise?

You were asked are you suggesting what's written on each of them is properly reported ?

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Don't judge others by your own poor choices of employer.

Guess again. Where did I say they were my employer ? And why would they be a poor choice of employer if what you claimed was true ? lol

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And then you should complain vociferously when national services like transport, health, education aren't working as desired, because you chose to put a gobsh1te in a strategic, national role.

I despise the likes of the Healy Rae's but to pretend the other gobsh1tes in Dublin or elsewhere are any different when you scratch the surface is horseshyte.

joeysoap · 26-01-2020 06:25PM

Keep the pension age at 66 until 2030 and in the meantime have a pre retirement pension of say 4/5 of the oap with a provision if you are still at work/ or get other work - you don’t qualify for it.

General Election and Government Formation Megathread (see post #1)

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