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General Election and Government Formation Megathread (see post #1)

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Comments

  • #1052
    wmahcm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 75 ✭✭wmahcm


    biko wrote: »
    If you don't make a choice, then don't complain when someone else makes it for you.
    John_Rambo wrote: »
    Don't vote?

    Get active, or shut up & go back to bed and don't complain. You're irrelevant.
    Geuze wrote: »
    To not vote is an abdication of your responsibility as a citizen.

    Christ, we fought long and hard for the right to vote.

    Everybody should vote.

    There are so many candidates, there's bound to be somebody you half like.

    Please engage with democracy and vote.

    If you don't, please don't complain afterwards

    No one should be forced to vote for people they don't believe in or want. Freedom of speech isn't conditional on voting. People are perfectly entitled to not vote for anyone on the ballot if they don't like any of the choices on the ballot, and they don't want to support and collaborate with them. "None of the above" should be an option on any truly democratic poll. The established Irish politicians will never allow that though.


  • #1053
    golfball37
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,031 ✭✭✭golfball37


    The only credible stable option is a ff/fg government. If they care as much as they claim to about national interest they’ll get it done. There is no difference between them policy wise.


  • #1054
    El Tarangu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,623 ✭✭✭El Tarangu


    DJIMI TRARORE wrote: »
    what's the rationale of getting into Europe and less than a year later going for a TD

    In the European elections, a candidate can name a substitute that can take over for them.

    It's a very sensible policy - use your high-profile candidate to run for the seat in Europe. Then, when it comes time for their run at the Dáil, you have the less high-profile substitute parachuted into the MEP position - they can a build a profile for themselves in a position that they would have been unlikely to win themselves, and you still have your high-profile candidate free to run for a Dáil seat.

    Councillors are also able to name a substitute, so we had several candidates running for both council and MEP seats. Best case scenario: you have an MEP and a councillor elected on the strength of one high-profile candidate. If your rising start doesn't win the seat as an MEP, well at least they will (hopefully) be elected as a councillor and continue building their profile in this role (this is how it went for Gary Gannon).
    Jin luk wrote: »
    But youll be happy, to keep raising taxes, high waiting lists for anything medical old women and children dying on hospital corridors, young couples who will never be able to afford a morgage, the local farmer who cant even make a decent wage, or what about the migrants the numbers of them has risen very sharply is the last 5 years you must want to work till youre 70 and not be able to get youre pension at 67, sinn fein isnt communism. Sinn fein is the future of our country

    Do you really think that SF are going to be able to increase spending on health, increase supports to first-time buyers, increase spending in agriculture, and keep the pension age at 66, without raising taxes? How would that work?
    or what about the migrants the numbers of them has risen very sharply is the last 5 years

    SF have previously expressed support for an open borders policy.


  • #1055
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    The first two above and whether to have a change of government. Brexit may creep in in the last week given the "celebration" next Friday.


  • #1056
    charlie14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,579 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Their likely support is still mid-teens so 42 is about the right number to run. At that level their current 23 seats is a target but very much down to local vagaries.


    If their vote does end up in the mid-teen, then 42 is probably the right number to run, but if they end up around the 20% the polls are predicting then with 42 running, they will most likely have left seats behind them in the 4 and 5 seat constituencies.


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  • #1057
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The ‘don’t vote don’t complain’ argument is ridiculous. If someone offered you the choice of having your throat cut or being shot in the head and you couldn’t decide, you can still feel aggrieved about either happening.


  • #1058
    horsebox1977
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 335 ✭✭horsebox1977


    wmahcm wrote: »
    I did answer it. Defending and glorifying the murder of women and kids is the very definition of gangsterism.

    No you didn't answer it.

    You appear to be copying and pasting the same answer in multiple threads.

    You're not capable of answering it. Good man.


  • #1059
    McMurphy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    road_high wrote: »
    What difference if she’s on it? SF talk about a “new ireland” but complain about a unionist politician going on a light entertainment programme in Dublin. Their United ireland dream is a long way off if that’s where they’re at

    I think FG/FF would be giving out stink if Tubridy had Leo or Michael Martin on the Friday night before the weekend of an election, and they were given a free platform to lay into either party.

    It will come down to how/if Tubridy challenges her if she does go off on an anti SF rant with a lobsided account.

    The timing of her appearance is a bit bizarre all things considered, but depending on how she is viewed by the viewing public, and if she cocks up, it could actually be a massive boost for Sinn Fein too.

    Rte couldn't wait until after an election though, no?


  • #1060
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,659 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    ReginaldSmythV wrote: »
    The ‘don’t vote don’t complain’ argument is ridiculous. If someone offered you the choice of having your throat cut or being shot in the head and you couldn’t decide, you can still feel aggrieved about either happening.

    Spoil your ballot. Imagine if everyone who didn't vote, say 1 in 5 did that. Then there'd be a clear message of dissatisfaction sent to the major parties. By not voting you incentivise them ignoring you and even trampling over you.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #1061
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    ReginaldSmythV wrote: »
    The ‘don’t vote don’t complain’ argument is ridiculous. If someone offered you the choice of having your throat cut or being shot in the head and you couldn’t decide, you can still feel aggrieved about either happening.
    These are absurd and wildly inaccurate analogies, voting is none of those things. Vote, don't vote, it is your choice. If you don't all you have is an opinion that people will question.


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  • #1062
    rossie1977
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,433 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    They aren't

    Even local well liked guy can't get near council seat. A SF TD from Roscommon seems unlikely anytime in near future.


  • #1063
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,580 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    McMurphy wrote: »
    I think FG/FF would be giving out stink if Tubridy had Leo or Michael Martin on the Friday night before the weekend of an election, and they were given a free platform to lay into either party.

    It will come down to how/if Tubridy challenges her if she does go off on an anti SF rant with a lobsided account.

    The timing of her appearance is a bit bizarre all things considered, but depending on how she is viewed by the viewing public, and if she cocks up, it could actually be a massive boost for Sinn Fein too.

    Rte couldn't wait until after an election though, no?

    Tubridy will have the onus of balance on him surely. If she is allowed to talk about SF he (RTE) will have to provide the balance.


  • #1064
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,382 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    The climate and biodiversity emergency. I'm surprised you don't have it as an option.

    It will make all the other issues listed worse.


  • #1065
    McMurphy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    rossie1977 wrote: »
    They aren't

    Even local well liked guy can't get near council seat. A SF TD from Roscommon seems unlikely anytime in near future.

    Never say never.

    Ming was recently all over Facebook out canvassing with a green candidate.

    :eek:


  • #1066
    wmahcm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 75 ✭✭wmahcm


    ReginaldSmythV wrote: »
    The ‘don’t vote don’t complain’ argument is ridiculous. If someone offered you the choice of having your throat cut or being shot in the head and you couldn’t decide, you can still feel aggrieved about either happening.

    Some Irish people would love to frog march you down to the polls under threat to vote for a class of people you don't believe in, and then threaten you if you speak out. So much for a free society.


  • #1067
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,580 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    golfball37 wrote: »
    The only credible stable option is a ff/fg government. If they care as much as they claim to about national interest they’ll get it done. There is no difference between them policy wise.

    The electorate have been telling them to merge and get it over with for a long time now.
    Other than petty bitching about each other there was no discernible difference between Varadkar and Martin in the debates.


  • #1068
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    wmahcm wrote: »
    Some Irish people would love to frog march you down to the polls under threat to vote for a class of people you don't believe in, and then threaten you if you speak out. So much for a free society.
    Or you could just go of your own accord.


  • #1069
    Banana Republic.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭Banana Republic.


    Sinn Féin have a decent amount here where I live. Think most would vote for them if they'd a realistic chance of getting into government but no party wants to get into bed with them. Pity as the country needs a really different party you try new things in Ireland.


  • #1070
    charlie14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,579 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    McMurphy wrote: »
    I think FG/FF would be giving out stink if Tubridy had Leo or Michael Martin on the Friday night before the weekend of an election, and they were given a free platform to lay into either party.

    It will come down to how/if Tubridy challenges her if she does go off on an anti SF rant with a lobsided account.

    The timing of her appearance is a bit bizarre all things considered, but depending on how she is viewed by the viewing public, and if she cocks up, it could actually be a massive boost for Sinn Fein too.

    Rte couldn't wait until after an election though, no?


    Very surprised if FG and FF (FF especially) are not making noises about her being on Tubridy in the middle of a GE campaign.
    How she is viewed by the vast majority of the electorate, however she performs is not going to do SF any electoral harm.


  • #1071
    anewme
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,141 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    Pensions.

    Also, our lax laws on animal abuses.


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  • #1072
    wmahcm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 75 ✭✭wmahcm


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Or you could go of your own accord.

    If you don't believe in any of the choices on the ballot, and consciously object object to all of them, and have no option to vote for "none of the above" as you should in a true democracy. .why should you collaborate in their election ?


  • #1073
    charlie14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,579 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Tubridy will have the onus of balance on him surely. If she is allowed to talk about SF he (RTE) will have to provide the balance.


    That would still be a win win for SF.
    She has a go at them and it works for SF. Tubridy then having to do balance would add to it.


  • #1074
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The electorate have been telling them to merge and get it over with for a long time now.
    Other than petty bitching about each other there was no discernible difference between Varadkar and Martin in the debates.
    How do you reason that when the electorate keep changing the number of seats both get and often at the expense of the other? Usually it's an argument put forward by those keen to see a traditional right left political set-up in Ireland.


  • #1075
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    Spoil your ballot. Imagine if everyone who didn't vote, say 1 in 5 did that. Then there'd be a clear message of dissatisfaction sent to the major parties. By not voting you incentivise them ignoring you and even trampling over you.

    If everyone who didn’t think any of them were worth oxygen didn’t bother showing up, a tiny voter turnout would be as large a statement.

    That said, I don’t think our broadcasters would report either of our scenarios. We know where their bread is buttered.


  • #1076
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    wmahcm wrote: »
    If you don't believe in any of the choices on the ballot, and consciously object object to all of them, and have no option to vote for "none of the above" as you should in a true democracy. .why should you collaborate in their election ?

    If we had this option, and it was truthfully and properly counted and reported, then a lot more would show up.


  • #1077
    wmahcm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 75 ✭✭wmahcm


    ReginaldSmythV wrote: »
    If we had this option, and it was truthfully and properly counted and reported, then a lot more would show up.

    I can't see any of the established Irish politicians being honest enough to allow this option for the proper execution of democracy.


  • #1078
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,831 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    There is a significant diff between FF and FG. FG certainly more right wing economically. Look at their lack of interest in social housing.
    In the European tradition, FG would be Christian Democrat and FF closer to Social Democrat.


  • #1079
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    charlie14 wrote: »
    If their vote does end up in the mid-teen, then 42 is probably the right number to run, but if they end up around the 20% the polls are predicting then with 42 running, they will most likely have left seats behind them in the 4 and 5 seat constituencies.
    Not if they are up against a 2 seat strategy by FF and FG. Both can be good in vote management. SF election day turnout tends to fall away from what polls claim.


  • #1080
    wmahcm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 75 ✭✭wmahcm


    golfball37 wrote: »
    The only credible stable option is a ff/fg government.

    That would be another absolute disaster for ordinary working people. As much as I dislike both FF and SF, a FF/SF coalition would be much better for ordinary working people, as both parties would have to keep a check on one another. Based on past experience of them, any other combination of parties / result is going to be bad news for the ordinary working person.


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  • #1081
    Jin luk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 389 ✭✭Jin luk


    Nitrogan wrote: »
    The poorest people in Ireland are some of wealthiest people who have ever lived. Irish people have a far better quality of life than we should. We're heavily subsidised by corporation taxes we're not really entitled to and won't be getting for much longer.


    That's when the **** really will hit the fan. What's SF's plan? Spend even more money we don't have on welfare so generations of families can continue living on handouts from the state but still afford a couple of foreign holidays every year.


    People think the global financial crash was bad that was nothing compared to the destruction SF could wreak on the country. At least Venezuela has oil reserves. :rolleyes:

    You need to go back onto youtube and keep watching those documentarys after that comment i couldnt honestly take you serious pal you have clearly never lived anywhere else but ireland.


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