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Importing from the UK - definitive guide (Q&A)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭WacoKid


    This tax gives the used car industry in Ireland an extra 80,000 sales. If you calculate that a dealer makes €1000 per car that is a gross profit of €80,000,000. That is quite significant for a small market. The motor industry have been in the press recently defending the charge in a self serving semi propaganda exercise to drive home the message that the nox charge is a good thing. It is for them I guess. I would like to see the rational / science behind the sliding scale charge. It is very coincidental that the amount of tax being charged is almost exactly the same figure as you would expect to save from importing a car from the UK. Does anybody know if the motor industry had a hand in helping the government draft the bill/tax? Were they used as consultants? I don’t believe that this is beyond the realms of possibility and if it was the case is this not corruption? Maybe they consulted with environmentalists who came up with the figures needed to combat pollution.


    If the government really wanted high NOx cars off the Irish roads then the NOx tax would have been applied to all used cars changing ownership.

    But no, it is only for UK cars changing hands in Ireland. A sweetener for Irish car dealers no doubt. Force the customer, in what is supposed to be a free trade area, into the claws of Irish dealers who charge higher prices for lower spec cars.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭sondagefaux


    WacoKid wrote: »
    Hard Brexit means a default to trade agreements with a non-EU country (i.e. VAT).
    Soft Brexit will see negotiations required on any new trade agreements first, and until these are in place, existing agreements will remain.

    That's how I see it but could be wrong.

    Brexit is happening at 11pm Irish/UK time on 31st January, midnight Central European Time.

    Under the proposed Withdrawal Agreement, the UK will more or less be treated as if it were a full member of the EU until at least the 31st December 2020.

    This transitional period can be extended until either 31st December 2021 or 31st December 2022, but the UK has to make a request for an extension (either to 31/12/2021 or 31/12/2022) by 30th June 2020.

    At present, the UK government says it will not request any extension, but it could change its mind...

    After 31st December 2020/2021/2022 (depending on whether an extension request is made and for how long), the UK will not be treated more or less as an EU member state, and whether Brexit becomes 'soft' (UK membership of the Single Market, UK participation in a customs union with the EU) or 'hard' depends on what kind of trade agreement the UK negotiates with the EU.

    At present, the UK government says it wants a 'hard' Brexit and doesn't want to stay in the Single Market or participate in a customs union with the EU, but it could change its mind...

    The hardest of hard Brexits would be if there's no trade agreement of any kind between the UK and the EU after the Withdrawal Agreement transition period expires - there's no guarantee that the negotiations will be successful.

    At present, the most likely outcome seems that the UK will not apply for an extension, and that it will leave the Single Market/Customs Union on 31st December 2020. This means hard Brexit from 31st December 2020.

    I would rate the chances of a free trade deal being agreed between the UK and the EU by the end of this year as way less than 50%, although it could happen.

    If it does, it's likely to be a very, very basic free trade agreement and any agreement to have 0% tariffs on goods imported from the UK into the EU might not cover all sectors fully(e.g. cars, including second-hand cars, might not be covered), or might only apply to a set amount of products in a certain sector (known as a tariff-rate quota: e.g. the UK and EU could agree that the first 100,000 cars (the quota) imported from the UK into the EU every year would be at 0% (the tariff-rate), and all other cars would have the existing 10% EU import tariff applied.

    Even if there is some sort of agreement, UK-made car makers will have to prove that a certain percentage of the components they used to build the cars have been made in the UK for them to qualify for 0% tariffs/reduced tariffs/tariff-rate quotas once they've been imported into the EU.

    The requirement for products made in one party to a free-trade agreement to have a certain percentage (to be agreed between the parties) of components/ingredients to be made in one of the countries that's party to the agreement is standard in free-trade agreements.

    They are known as Rules of Origin and manufacturers who want to benefit from 0%/reduced tariffs/tariff-rate quotas have to prove that their products are made with at least the minimum percentage of components/ingredients from their home country as set out in the free-trade agreement.

    Proving this costs money, and some smaller manufacturers don't bother to spend the money required to obtain the proof they need, so their products will be subject to the standard tariffs when imported...

    Many UK-made cars don't have enough of their components made in the UK to qualify for any potential reductions if there's a UK-EU free-trade agreement.

    They often are made with more components that have been made outside the UK than in the UK.

    If that continues after Brexit, even with a free-trade agreement, they wouldn't qualify for any 0% tariff/reduced tariff/tariff-rate quota...

    Basically, you're probably okay to continue importing cars, including second-hand ones, from the UK until at least the end of 2020, although you will probably have to pay Irish VAT on imports from the UK from 1st February onwards.

    After that, who the hell knows! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,750 ✭✭✭LillySV


    I have to laugh when the whole pro eu **** is rammed down our neck.... free trade ...... not when a customer wants to buy a car abroad though...


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭sondagefaux


    WacoKid wrote: »
    I had a quick look to see what a Hard Brexit, or change in trade agreement, means for the UK used car industry.

    Last year 2.1m cars changed hands in the UK. IIFC ROI imported approx. 110k cars from the UK, or 5% of the UK used car market.

    Not sure this is enough for the UK to look to keep the used car trade route with ROI open as-is.

    It's not up to the UK to make that decision. Ireland and the EU will decide what taxes/import duties that cars originating in the UK face on import to Ireland/the EU.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭sondagefaux


    LillySV wrote: »
    I have to laugh when the whole pro eu **** is rammed down our neck.... free trade ...... not when a customer wants to buy a car abroad though...

    The only extra money you pay for cars in Ireland on cars imported from the UK (or anywhere else in the world) are taxes imposed by the Irish government, not because of EU membership.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 298 ✭✭Muttley79


    Considering we are now with Cyprus and Malta as the only countries in Europe driving right hand side cars and rely so heavily on UK cars.maybe we should have a debate about changing to left hand side cars and we can rely on importing cars from Europe then.personally I think it would make sense to have a debate about it at least


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,750 ✭✭✭LillySV


    The only extra money you pay for cars in Ireland on cars imported from the UK (or anywhere else in the world) are taxes imposed by the Irish government, not because of EU membership.

    I agree but the same govt have been humming on about the benefits of the eu but yet don’t follow rules or principles when it suits the ordinary man


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭ronn


    Can anyone tell me how to calculate the NoX charge on a 1.4 Skoda fabia 161,
    The revenue website is a mine field,
    Thanks


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    WacoKid wrote: »
    If the government really wanted high NOx cars off the Irish roads then the NOx tax would have been applied to all used cars changing ownership.

    But no, it is only for UK cars changing hands in Ireland. A sweetener for Irish car dealers no doubt. Force the customer, in what is supposed to be a free trade area, into the claws of Irish dealers who charge higher prices for lower spec cars.

    I really can't believe you are advocating more tax.

    It's only for imports, whether they be new or used. You can't impose it retrospectively. That's a can of worms that needs keeping sealed


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    Brexit is happening at 11pm Irish/UK time on 31st January, midnight Central European Time.

    Under the proposed Withdrawal Agreement, the UK will more or less be treated as if it were a full member of the EU until at least the 31st December 2020.

    This transitional period can be extended until either 31st December 2021 or 31st December 2022, but the UK has to make a request for an extension (either to 31/12/2021 or 31/12/2022) by 30th June 2020.

    At present, the UK government says it will not request any extension, but it could change its mind...

    After 31st December 2020/2021/2022 (depending on whether an extension request is made and for how long), the UK will not be treated more or less as an EU member state, and whether Brexit becomes 'soft' (UK membership of the Single Market, UK participation in a customs union with the EU) or 'hard' depends on what kind of trade agreement the UK negotiates with the EU.

    At present, the UK government says it wants a 'hard' Brexit and doesn't want to stay in the Single Market or participate in a customs union with the EU, but it could change its mind...

    The hardest of hard Brexits would be if there's no trade agreement of any kind between the UK and the EU after the Withdrawal Agreement transition period expires - there's no guarantee that the negotiations will be successful.

    At present, the most likely outcome seems that the UK will not apply for an extension, and that it will leave the Single Market/Customs Union on 31st December 2020. This means hard Brexit from 31st December 2020.

    I would rate the chances of a free trade deal being agreed between the UK and the EU by the end of this year as way less than 50%, although it could happen.

    If it does, it's likely to be a very, very basic free trade agreement and any agreement to have 0% tariffs on goods imported from the UK into the EU might not cover all sectors fully(e.g. cars, including second-hand cars, might not be covered), or might only apply to a set amount of products in a certain sector (known as a tariff-rate quota: e.g. the UK and EU could agree that the first 100,000 cars (the quota) imported from the UK into the EU every year would be at 0% (the tariff-rate), and all other cars would have the existing 10% EU import tariff applied.

    Even if there is some sort of agreement, UK-made car makers will have to prove that a certain percentage of the components they used to build the cars have been made in the UK for them to qualify for 0% tariffs/reduced tariffs/tariff-rate quotas once they've been imported into the EU.

    The requirement for products made in one party to a free-trade agreement to have a certain percentage (to be agreed between the parties) of components/ingredients to be made in one of the countries that's party to the agreement is standard in free-trade agreements.

    They are known as Rules of Origin and manufacturers who want to benefit from 0%/reduced tariffs/tariff-rate quotas have to prove that their products are made with at least the minimum percentage of components/ingredients from their home country as set out in the free-trade agreement.

    Proving this costs money, and some smaller manufacturers don't bother to spend the money required to obtain the proof they need, so their products will be subject to the standard tariffs when imported...

    Many UK-made cars don't have enough of their components made in the UK to qualify for any potential reductions if there's a UK-EU free-trade agreement.

    They often are made with more components that have been made outside the UK than in the UK.

    If that continues after Brexit, even with a free-trade agreement, they wouldn't qualify for any 0% tariff/reduced tariff/tariff-rate quota...

    Basically, you're probably okay to continue importing cars, including second-hand ones, from the UK until at least the end of 2020, although you will probably have to pay Irish VAT on imports from the UK from 1st February onwards.

    After that, who the hell knows! :D

    a parallel would e#be the ckd cars once "built" here to avoid/satisfy the import regulations. A certain amount of local input was necessary


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  • Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭DamoRed


    michellie wrote: »
    NO, it doesn't. It applies to Category A vehicles.

    Very happy to be corrected on this. Thank you. A little less to hand over when arriving home with the new wheels.


  • Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭WacoKid


    Isambard wrote: »
    I really can't believe you are advocating more tax.

    Sorry but you are incorrect in your take on my original comment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    WacoKid wrote: »
    Sorry but you are incorrect in your take on my original comment.

    you were advocating NOx duty on all car sales weren't you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭WacoKid


    Isambard wrote: »
    you were advocating NOx duty on all car sales weren't you?

    "If the government really wanted high NOx cars off the Irish roads then the NOx tax would have been applied to all used cars changing ownership."

    Not sure this is advocating anything.


  • Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭The_Fitz


    The_Fitz wrote: »
    Hi folks,

    I posted earlier in the thread. Bought the car last week in the north and have the VRT booking tomorrow in a NCT centre. I'm bringing:

    V5C form (includes CO & NOX emissions)
    VRTVPD2 form
    Utility bill dated within last two months (printout as paperless)
    PPS Card
    Dated Invoice of purchase
    Passport
    MOT certificate

    Does that all seem ok?

    Once it has all been imported and paid up, do they stick the plates on for ye? Do you just organise Insurance before you drive out of the NCT centre?

    Probably a repetitive question of mine from last week but want to make sure it all goes through ok.

    Cheers

    Fitz

    Wife just been sent away from the NCTS centre as there are two engine numbers that come up on their computer and they can't make the decision there and then to pick one.

    It has to go off to Revenue for them to make a decision on which number which then decides the VRT.

    Anyone any experience of this?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,691 ✭✭✭michellie


    The_Fitz wrote: »
    Wife just been sent away from the NCTS centre as there are two engine numbers that come up on their computer and they can't make the decision there and then to pick one.

    It has to go off to Revenue for them to make a decision on which number which then decides the VRT.

    Anyone any experience of this?

    Can't imagine it has to do with 2 engine numbers.. but if the exact revenue Stat code isn't available it does have to be sent off to revenue unfortunately. Hopefully it won't take too long to return back.


  • Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭The_Fitz


    michellie wrote: »
    Can't imagine it has to do with 2 engine numbers.. but if the exact revenue Stat code isn't available it does have to be sent off to revenue unfortunately. Hopefully it won't take too long to return back.

    Her words 'Two engine numbers'. You'll be right about the stat code. Don't know how revenue can make a decision on that though?

    Two versions came up on the screen. I'm fairly certain the VRT is exactly the same but anyway. Hopefully just a few more days. She said to my wife that when revenue comes back then we can just pop into the centre and pay the VRT. I guess that means no new appointment?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,691 ✭✭✭michellie


    The_Fitz wrote: »
    Her words 'Two engine numbers'. You'll be right about the stat code. Don't know how revenue can make a decision on that though?

    Two versions came up on the screen. I'm fairly certain the VRT is exactly the same but anyway. Hopefully just a few more days. She said to my wife that when revenue comes back then we can just pop into the centre and pay the VRT. I guess that means no new appointment?

    The engine numbers aren't even in the stat code additional information. I wonder was it the BHP they meant to tell your wife.. Yea once you get the price back you can call in anytime during the opening hours to pay. I think you'll hear back before the end of the week. Vrt is quite quiet at the moment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭The_Fitz


    michellie wrote: »
    The engine numbers aren't even in the stat code additional information. I wonder was it the BHP they meant to tell your wife.. Yea once you get the price back you can call in anytime during the opening hours to pay. I think you'll hear back before the end of the week. Vrt is quite quiet at the moment.

    Brilliant -so just a case of driving up, paying, then getting the plates off them (or someone else) hopefully.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,307 ✭✭✭wassie


    Muttley79 wrote: »
    Considering we are now with Cyprus and Malta as the only countries in Europe driving right hand side cars and rely so heavily on UK cars.maybe we should have a debate about changing to left hand side cars and we can rely on importing cars from Europe then.personally I think it would make sense to have a debate about it at least

    Its an interesting idea enough.

    But we don't rely on the UK....we CHOOSE to import to save money or buy a better spec car as the govt shafts us with a tax on vehicle registrations. Spending millions on changing our road infrastructure, re-educating drivers and changing over cars to RH drive so we can save a few quid on imports doesn't exactly make sense.

    Jeezus.....just imagine the number of quality bangers from Romania making a beeline to Holyhead! Better the devil you know I say.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,525 ✭✭✭deezell


    barrac wrote: »
    Thanks. The dealer I am buying from wont sell cars for export. So the V5C needs to go to a UK address from the DVLA.

    Seriously, don't buy from a dealer who won't hand over v5c and just forward on the export slip to the DVLA. Tell him to shove his car.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,215 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    WacoKid wrote: »
    If the government really wanted high NOx cars off the Irish roads then the NOx tax would have been applied to all used cars changing ownership.

    But no, it is only for UK cars changing hands in Ireland. A sweetener for Irish car dealers no doubt. Force the customer, in what is supposed to be a free trade area, into the claws of Irish dealers who charge higher prices for lower spec cars.

    They cannot simply introduce a new tax on a change of ownership. VRT is payable on all newly registered cars irrespective of their origin.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    There's nothing stopping anyone from importing a left hand drive car from mainland Europe by the way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,926 ✭✭✭User1998


    pablo128 wrote: »
    There's nothing stopping anyone from importing a left hand drive car from mainland Europe by the way.

    There never has been but I don’t think it’s possible to get insured on a LHD in Ireland and they’d be incredibly impractical


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    User1998 wrote: »
    There never has been but I don’t think it’s possible to get insured on a LHD in Ireland and they’d be incredibly impractical

    You can get insured although it would be more expensive. And yes, probably impractical. But still nothing stopping anyone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,926 ✭✭✭User1998


    pablo128 wrote: »
    You can get insured although it would be more expensive. And yes, probably impractical. But still nothing stopping anyone.

    I know someone who moved to Ireland and registered their LHD here but no one would insure him. It was a number of years ago so maybe its changed since


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,694 ✭✭✭✭L-M


    I pass a left hand drive Golf convertible most mornings anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 73,387 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    L-M wrote: »
    I pass a left hand drive Golf convertible most mornings anyway.

    Same here, mk7?


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,694 ✭✭✭✭L-M


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    Same here, mk7?

    Yeah a Green one.

    Edit: No sorry, it’s a 161 Mk6... Did they do a Mk7 ?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 73,387 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    I actually wrote mk6 then remembered it was 2016, then wrote mk7 !

    Same one so.


This discussion has been closed.
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