Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail

Greaney wrote: »

And that's where we disagree.

We've gone over the issue of buses v rail ad-nauseum on this thread before and neither of us are for turning I'd day.

It's not about what any of us would like to see, in an ideal world, it's about what is realistically achievable for the asset.
Given that the dogs in the street know what conclusions the rail review came to, there is no railway coming any time soon, or not in most of our lifetimes at any rate.
A greenway on the other hand is achievable, can attract available funding, and has the support of most people with the exception of a few politicians who rely on the myth of the railway as an an election promise.
This was never about railway versus greenway, it is about what can be achieved. According to the rail review and several other similar reviews in the past, rail is not a viable option. If it was, do you think they'd be hiding the report from the people of Galway?

Greaney wrote: »

Don't be too sure about that. The support for rail has always been solid. Furthermore, the greenway campaing on the WRC got very shouty there for a while. People are not into unnessecary conflict, on-line or off (except me apparently:rolleyes:). The numbers supporting rail are significant, and don't just live in Athenry & Tuam. There's folk campaigning from Derry to Cork.



According to the rail review of 2012 which is the last one available to the public, the Tuam to Athenry section of the western rail corridor was the most viable in the country and the people were so encouraged they began to strategize for it.

The residents of Ballyglunin were part of that strategy and have been working on restoring the station. They got funding just recently.

To get anything done in Ireland, you've to plug away at it for years, trust me, I know. I'm surprised folk on this forum think it'll be easier to get a greenway on the track. This is Irish rail we're talking about. It not only won't be easier to get a greenway on it, it won't be given up by Iarnrod Eireann. The Velo is the thing we should be concentrating on. Two of them pass through Galway!! That's huge, though some would like you not to think so.... Indeed the issue has been made so political, I've personally been very spooked from involving a politician in any of our projects.
https://connachttribune.ie/cannon-rules-out-cpos-for-future-greenway-routes/
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/objections-put-brakes-on-cycleway-from-dublin-to-galway-1.2411393
https://connachttribune.ie/minister-cannon-comes-under-fire-for-supporting-greenway-000/
https://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/102951/greenway-does-not-threaten-future-rail-services-says-cannon

Why arn't they all out on the streets and above at the Dáil then, demanding that this latest "rail review" be published? :rolleyes:

mayo.mick wrote: »

Why arn't they all out on the streets and above at the Dáil then, demanding that this latest "rail review" be published? :rolleyes:

I don't know if from the eye roll you actually want to know the answer. It came up at the Sinn Féin meeting, which by the way, was attended by some pretty seasoned community activists, and you could sense many of us thought it wasn't that effective. So, in short...

It's a bad strategy.

I've faffed about going into detail about why, but the truth is, it's grant season and I've got to get stuck in on applications for things that we have to do in our community. I know the rail review is coming, and when it does.... I'll read it. I'm not expecting the earth to move.... if the government wants the WRC to happen soon, it'll be amazingly positive. If they want a greenway, it'll be damning, and if they want to park it.... it will be neither positive or negative.

ezstreet5 wrote: »

A bit cynical, Greaney. Rather, I suspect the 'rail report' will be perfectly vague and will be readable in support of either a greenway or reactivation or a railway. And the government will be able to select à la carte.

What is darkened, however, is the bankrupt effort to force the report's release via multiplicative FOI requests. Do you think you can bully yourselves a greenway without a backfire? These seem to be the final throes of a failed effort.

Agreed that the final version of the rail report will be vague, it is the version delivered to the Department that the multiple FOI requests and multiple PQs are asking for, not the redacted report certain quarters want to put out there.
You think it darkens a campaign and makes for a bankrupt effort for multitudes of people (voters) to engage in the process of democracy to simply ask for what they paid for?

Any FOI becomes a matter of record. Any person is entitled to submit an FOI and any TD is entitled to engage within the system to make a PQ, all these actions are recorded and in the public domain and to flippantly dismiss them as bankrupt is to ignore the rights we have in a democracy.

People have been stirred into action who normally simply don't engage, Minister Ross by the way has also received PQs asking for the railway report from ardent railway supporters, like Lisa Chambers and Eamon O'Cuiv, just go look at the record in fact here is the link for you, why not just publish it and put us all at ease, at this stage I just want to see the dam report, who knows it might recommend the immediate construction of the railway, in which case get on with it, but please don't patronise people who have actually got involved in the process by flippantly saying their efforts are a bankrupt effort; you do yourself a disservice.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/search/?q=western%20rail%20corridor&sort=date&originalFilter=%2Fen%2Fdebates%2Fquestions%2F%3FdatePeriod%3Dall%26questionType%3Dall%26resultsPerPage%3D20%26viewBy%3Dday&questionType=all&searchType=questions&datePeriod=all

Muckyboots wrote: »

I agree.
Signed: Greenway disciple advocate.

Two things seem very clear.
1. The rail report finds no case for a railway. If it did, it would definitely be in the public domain by now.
2. We won't see it until after the election. Sean Canney needs the railway myth for his campaign, given that he hasn't much else to offer. He won't allow it to be released. He will have the tacit support of an Taoiseach in this; although Varadkar has long ago confirmed that the mistakes of phase one won't be repeated, he will adopt the 'no news is good news' approach to the region in an attempt to keep as many voters on side as possible.

westtip wrote: »

You are right Oranmore is doing well as is Athenry-Galway, but they are not part of the Western Rail Corridor, they are part of the pre existing Dublin Galway line, yes there is clearly a case to develop double tracking on the Athenry Galway section perhaps - to enable better local services into Galway. The figures touted by West on Track about the huge success of the Western Rail Corridor need to be examined more closely, thankfully they were and presented in detail to EY consulting. You may recall in 2019 the top line figures on usage of the WRC were touted out in the public domain claiming they proved the huge success of the line, with 387,000 passengers recorded on the route in 2018, it was a complete myth, of the 387,000 passenger journies 217,000 were passengers only using the Athenry/Galway and Oranmore/Galway route, they were short journey Galway commuters using the pre-existing Dublin/Galway main line. The top line figures touted by West on Track did not draw attention to this fact, take a look at the real states, EY did because they had them presented to them in black and white, they came by the way directly from Irish Rail who were asked to release them.

According to that attached file, 137,784 was the number of passengers between Ennis & Athenry in 2018. What figure would this need to be for the line to be considered sustainable?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No need, the massive subvention due to low usage is all that is needed

Just to be clear, I'm not anti-rail. I'm anti-waste.

For example, I'm all for double tracking the full Galway to Dublin line, increasing capacity at Athenry and Oranmore P&R's, etc

But a line between 2 small towns that will be slower than driving, cost more than getting the bus and waste an insane amount of cash to both get it up and running and then to keep it running...... Yeah, sorry, never going to support that

But but but but
They have the LUAS up in Dublin, the feckers

westtip wrote: »

You think it darkens a campaign and makes for a bankrupt effort for multitudes of people (voters) to engage in the process of democracy to simply ask for what they paid for?

OK, forgive my barbs. The were unnecessary, but yes, I do think that spamming DTTAS with FOIA requests is futile. A reasonable person would send just one, and then pursue their administrative and judicial remedies if they believed they were wrongfully refused information under the Act.

I also think that spamming the NWRA with duplicate submissions on the RSES is equally futile. Spamming Mayo Council regarding the velorail project is both futile and disingenuous.

I think a surefire way to ensure that something doesn’t change is to start a petition on change.org.

And do you remember the magic “feasibility study?” Someone had convinced themselves (and many others) that all we needed to access our share of the €42 million of government greenway money was some sort of an undefined feasibility study. Councilors were spammed regarding their vote for such a study, and there was a kerfuffle over a second vote for a wider-scoped study. If anyone would have taken 5 minutes to read the funding guidelines, they would have seen that funding was restricted to actual projects with full planning permission (or soon-to-be issued permission). But we couldn’t turn down an opportunity to get political, personal, and nasty. After all, anyone who even questions the notion that bicycle tourism will transform East Galway and Mayo is not only delusional, but probably corrupt with their own agenda.

That last bit of ugliness can be traced back to a certain junior minister, who while supporting greenways on the surface, has probably done more to deprive the region of the same by promising landowners that no CPOs would be issued for the Galway to Athlone stretch. So while that project is delayed, the idea of a greenway on the WRC is reduced to an unconnected, dangling segment that nobody will want to build.

Sligo eye wrote: »

Oh ho ho ho. I’d love to know why you come on here and trot out the same catch phrases year after year.

I’ve yet to hear from you a convincing argument as to why we should destroy public transport at a time when the rest of the world is switching to rail away from air and road.

Simple answer to that.
Because they have the LUAS up in Dublin, the feckers.