Veganism: Who is behind the Agenda?

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Haha sorry! Limit it was meant. Maybe there is similar advice around vegetables though!

Balance is key.
Eating as wide a variety of foods will avoid having too much of any one, that’s why restrictive diets are poor, they push people towards limited choices and that’s where dietary deficiencies come from.

Eat your meat, have your dairy, but also get your fruits and veg in too. That’s the absolute best advice for humans.

The other point I’m going to make about the vegan lifestyle.
It’s based on hyper processed foods.

The best nutritional advice is the eat whole foods, be that chicken breast, steaks, veg barely cooked of cooked at all.

I popped in and looked at the 17 posts on the Veganuary thread over on the dark side. Every single post and recommendation is for hyper processed foods. There is nothing healthy or sustainable about that lifestyle. The processing adds god knows what that isn’t right for people. The ingredients are often produced in places and methods that are far far worse for the environment and biodiversity than good animal farming practice.

So really the vegan lifestyle just comes down to the emotional weakness over farming and slaughter of animals. I appreciate this isn’t for everyone and they are free to choose otherwise to appease their weakness. But farming has been sustaining humans for a long time and continues to do so. Vested interests will fling lots of mud and idiots will beleive everything they see, but they need to realise they are being manipulated to buy the exact products vegans are raving about in their posts, they are being monitised and bled dry by corporations who see them as a revenue source.

hetuzozaho wrote: »

I think Quinoa ticks most boxes in that area

And Messi is killing it haha

So look at that statement.

Think of all the diverse animal based protein sources, beef, lamb, pork, chicken, fish, eggs. The variety they provide in taste and texture, the interesting ways they are cooked and presented providing a plethora of options.

You suggested quinola as an alternative to all these, amd I’m not even bothering to research your claim because you simply can’t replace all these different options with one thing. That’s what I’ve been saying about variety and restrictive diets. You eliminate all these excellent highly nutritious foods and replace with one thing, it’s not a proper omnivorous diet and it’s not sustainable. That’s why more than 80% of people who start a vegan lifestyle return to a proper normal omnivorous diet within a year.

Vegans aren't protein deficient. Even top performing athletes are able to get the required levels of protein without eating animal products. All essential amino acids are found in plants.

B12 is the area of most concern for vegans but most sensible ones supplement. It's not natural but then neither is brushing your teeth or using toilet paper..

Interestingly though they have recently discovered duck weed, the green plant found growing in the majority of ponds , lakes and rivers contains b12 and is edible. It has a very good nutritional make up. Very easy to grow too. This is another source of naturally available b12 other than nutritional yeast. Maybe the next super food was right under our noses?

I think however taking a supplement is the best even for meat eaters who can can be low on b12.

Xcellor wrote: »

Vegans aren't protein deficient. Even top performing athletes are able to get the required levels of protein without eating animal products. All essential amino acids are found in plants.

B12 is the area of most concern for vegans but most sensible ones supplement. It's not natural but then neither is brushing your teeth or using toilet paper..

Interestingly though they have recently discovered duck weed, the green plant found growing in the majority of ponds , lakes and rivers contains b12 and is edible. It has a very good nutritional make up. Very easy to grow too. This is another source of naturally available b12 other than nutritional yeast. Maybe the next super food was right under our noses?

I think however taking a supplement is the best even for meat eaters who can can be low on b12.

What vegan athletes would be well known to the majority of sports fans.
I heard an interview once with a now vegan ex boxer who's name escapes me.
He was clear that his nutritional demands could not be met in his boxing prime from a vegan diet. Made for an interesting interview.

stretch film wrote: »

What vegan athletes would be well known to the majority of sports fans.
I heard an interview once with a now vegan ex boxer who's name escapes me.
He was clear that his nutritional demands could not be met in his boxing prime from a vegan diet. Made for an interesting interview.

Serena Williams / Novak djok would be two that come to mind. There are others tho. The Netflix documentary Game Changers gives some other examples some are retired now but would have observed plant based diet up to retirement. Nate Diaz MMA plant based when in competition.

Xcellor wrote: »

"“I’m not against vegetarianism or veganism,” Stanton said. “It is possible to have a balanced diet with vegetarianism. It’s a little bit more challenging but still possible with veganism. However, it requires a lot of knowledge and effort, which doesn’t happen in the majority of the population. People don’t have time to invest in getting a really balanced diet through a range of plant-based foods.”

Most non vegans don't have balanced diets either. There are huge levels of obesity/diet induced diabetes + heart disease + cancers that are more than likely linked to being overweight in Ireland.

All diets need to be planned properly. Why are people coming out and saying

"People don’t have time to invest in getting a really balanced diet through a range of plant-based foods"

When it's obvious they don't have time with the traditional diet either?

I imagine he means in terms of nutrients rather than calorie intake.

The bit i found interesting was the claim that nutrient levels are dropping in veg especially organic veg.

Xcellor wrote: »

Serena Williams / Novak djok would be two that come to mind. There are others tho. The Netflix documentary Game Changers gives some other examples some are retired now but would have observed plant based diet up to retirement. Nate Diaz MMA plant based when in competition.

Any top level athletes that have spent a lifetime on a Vegan diet? Not much good if they were eating meat all their lives, getting to the top of their profession and then being vegan for six months. Hardly proves anything once their body has been built on animal protein.

Xcellor wrote: »

It should be more of a concern for the traditional diet in that case which is made up of less fruit+vegetables than a vegan. The nutrients found in fruits and vegetables are not going to be supplemented by eating red meat.

Are you claiming red meat has 0 nutrional value? It's strange that on one hand you claim all the nutrients found in meat can be found in plants but on the other hand you are claiming red meat can't supplement a short fall in nutrients from plants.

Of course decreasing nutritional value should be a great concern for anyone dependent on fruit/veg for nutrients, be they vegan, vegetarian or omnivores, but I think I'd be more concerned if I envisioned a world where people are on a completely plant based diet.