Veganism: Who is behind the Agenda?

musings

The media seem to be promoting the Vegan Agenda at every opportunity lately. Here is a graph that shows just how much interest has risen in Veganism.

Here is a link to the graph: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=vegan

Who is putting the money behind this agenda? I am wondering if it is Big Tech?

Interestingly, In June 2017, Amazon bought Whole Foods Market, the world's largest retailer of organic/vegan food.....Since July 2017 the search term has gone up in popularity by 50 to 100%!!!!

Christy42

I think people are too keen to find a conspiracy.

People are interested in it. It has become far more of a serious choice in recent years without the same sacrifice. Possibly some people are going for it as a reaction to us too much meat as a society (I know plenty of people who gave up drink due to seeing too many overindulge). I know some (vegetarian admittedly) who go with it for environmental and the ability to feed more people. These have all become more and more topical over recent years. Meat is also an easy target for fad diets partially due to some eating too much for their own good. Especially as many of our more unhealthy meals involve meat/dairy cos both taste gooood. Frequently not due to the meat which can be healthy but it gets tarred with the fast food brush at times.

Certainly, like with anything, there are plenty of companies take advantage with plenty of dubious claims all over the place.Not sure there is anything I would call an Agenda though.

Maybe some are just interested in it.

Note I am a meat eater with no intention of ever joining the vegans/vegetarians.

ganmo

One thought I had a while back that was too bonkers to share...but here we go.

What if the seed companies are behind it?

It would make more sense than amazon being behind it jus because they bought a fast growing retail company

Say my name

ganmo wrote: »

One thought I had a while back that was too bonkers to share...but here we go.

What if the seed companies are behind it?

It would make more sense than amazon being behind it jus because they bought a fast growing retail company

Cargill were backers of the Lancet report.
Same with Yara a fertilizer company.
Same with Kellogg's, you know who they are.

More worryingly at home, it seems Philip Boucher Hayes has been got at. Before this started with the environmental week on RTE he supported farming and meat consumption and had the devenish piece on Drivetime.
Now he's gone total opposite and making up for lost time and has John Gibbons as his best buddy on Twitter.

Spanish Eyes

People who want to be cool and hip and right on, and tell us all what is right will tell us what to do.

Most want to live and let live. But the hipsters and agenda workers will tell us what is good for us.

I do not subscribe. They can feck off if they think I am going to look at every label to check it out like a vegan totalitarian.

Ah but each to their own. Must be hard work though if one is an adherent. Good luck anyway. As long as you don't lecture me, it's your own decision.

Xcellor

Being plant based has been proven to be healthy when done right same as any other standard diet really.

Documentaries like What the Health / Game changers - both available on netfix show some health benefits. These have to be watched with a pinch of salt.

The reversal of type 2 diabetes though and heart disease - make it worthwhile to consider. Though anecdotal my cholesterol/blood pressure/gout have all improved significantly since becoming plant based.

Then there is the planet. People are becoming more aware of environmental concerns. Diet changes are probably the single thing that everyone can do, even if its a reduction rather than elimination of carbon heavy foods whether that animal/plant production (oat milk versus almond milk versus cow milk. avoiding palm oil etc)

Most people are very uncomfortable when they see how cruel and exploitative animal agriculture can be. The vast majority of which is factory farmed.

Couple of expose type documentaries.

Dominion

Land of Hope and Glory

(UK farms).

There are a lot of reasons to consider going plant based. I think these far outweigh the "It tastes so good" , "We've always eaten meat." "Don't lions eat meat."

_Brian

You can’t just view and speak of veganism in one sense as if every vegan has the same ideology and goals.

I see veganism breaking into three distinct groups.

1. Just vegans, you won’t know who they are because they see no need for you to. They do what they beleive for their own reasons and are happy with that, they don’t care what everyone else is doing.

2. Vegan activists. These are the teenagers you see protesting outside slaughterhouses and butcher shops. They are shouting their mouths off because it lets them feel they are rebelling against “the man” and the nasty farmers. They are noisy and nasty but will achieve little bar attracting another few spotty teens, 80% will have moved on within a year to grunge music or whatever their friends are into.

3. Rich vegan ideology directionists, I worry about these guys. They have the smarts, the money and ability to influence what happens in important places. They worm their way into trusted positions and they influence government policy, get information slipped into education about veganism saving the planet. These guys are media savvy and are beating the drum that the second group get behind without even realising they are being manipulated. They likely have massive investments in vegan food companies they will mould the world round them to make a profit and for the moment veganism is their tool of choice. Farming is seen as collateral damage, an old way of life to be trodden on. Farming is too fractured and blind sided to realise that they are being targeted by these people.

Say my name

You could add in propaganda being used to influence and used by vegan interests that Joseph Goebbels would see as masterpieces to influence the masses.

Some world we live in now.
The best glossy films that have a story and tug at the heartstrings win out now. Whether it's true or not, matters not.

El Tarangu

musings wrote: »

Since July 2017 the search term has gone up in popularity by 50 to 100%!!!!

A small increase of people interested in a topic would represent a large growth in interest proportionally, given as how it was a fairly niche topic to begin with.

Interestingly, In June 2017, Amazon bought Whole Foods Market, the world's largest retailer of organic/vegan food.....

Link to wholefood meat and poultry dept -https://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/department/meat-poultry

I'd say that Amazon bought Wholefoods due to the markup that can be charged for food marketed as 'organic' or 'sustainable', and not due to any ideological position.

Siamsa Sessions

As ever, just follow the money

What companies and sectors will gain from producing, branding, and selling vegan food?

Dubl07

Xcellor wrote: »

Then there is the planet. People are becoming more aware of environmental concerns. Diet changes are probably the single thing that everyone can do, even if its a reduction rather than elimination of carbon heavy foods whether that animal/plant production (oat milk versus almond milk versus cow milk. avoiding palm oil etc)

Most people are very uncomfortable when they see how cruel and exploitative animal agriculture can be. The vast majority of which is factory farmed.

Orangutans and other species are already being wiped out because of palm oil. Almond milk production uses vast amounts of water in already warm so water-poor areas affecting wildlife, people and farms.

If we were all to go vegan, there would be no cattle, sheep, chickens, pigs, geese, pheasants, partridges, turkeys etc except in zoos or as pets for the wealthy.

Not my scene. I'll look for high-welfare meat, but I'm utterly against lab-grown franken-meat.

patsy_mccabe

Dubl07 wrote: »

.....
If we were all to go vegan, there would be no cattle, sheep, chickens, pigs, geese, pheasants, partridges, turkeys etc except in zoos or as pets for the wealthy. .........

If there were no farm animals, there would also be NO organic fertiliser. Try growing grops without fertiliser for 7.5 billion people.

El_Duderino 09

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

If there were no farm animals, there would also be NO organic fertiliser. Try growing grops without fertiliser for 7.5 billion people.

Not eating meat doesn't need to be organic. They're different things - I wonder if anyone else was going to point that out.

Christy42

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

As ever, just follow the money

What companies and sectors will gain from producing, branding, and selling vegan food?

I mean. It isn't like meat doesn't have money being pumped into it as well?

So people think there is a vegan cabal somewhere? I'll admit I wouldn't get invited but somehow I don't think so. As ever some are interested for a variety of reasons and some are in it for the money or do you think McDonalds sell meat for the good of society?

Say my name

All is not lost.

https://twitter.com/GHGGuru/status/1204020042360225795?s=20

Birdnuts

Say my name wrote: »

All is not lost.

https://twitter.com/GHGGuru/status/1204020042360225795?s=20

Probably due to the prospect of a sprouts only Christmas dinner;)

jaymla627

Birdnuts wrote: »

Probably due to the prospect of a sprouts only Christmas dinner;)

If you had bought 10k worth of beyond meat shares in July they would now be worth a little over 3k, the steam is going out of the vegan fake meat market before it even gets going...

Water John

TMK Brian, one couple have put a lot of money into the public postering campaign.
The husband made his money in finance, (one wonders of the morality in that sector). I think they're Norwegian.

Siamsa Sessions

Christy42 wrote: »

I mean. It isn't like meat doesn't have money being pumped into it as well?

So people think there is a vegan cabal somewhere? I'll admit I wouldn't get invited but somehow I don't think so. As ever some are interested for a variety of reasons and some are in it for the money or do you think McDonalds sell meat for the good of society?

Follow the money in meat too if you want to see who’s getting rich there.

There doesn’t need to be any cabal or conspiracy. Some business people have access to politicians and financial clout to invest in media and research that apparently backs up their claims. It’s just a business to them, in the same way McDonalds sells cheap food to make money. They don’t care if it’s meat or vegan as long as they can turn a profit.

So if you want to see who’s pushing vegan food, look to see who’ll make money from it. The same goes for meat or any product - forget the Illuminati and Da Vinci Code conspiracy theories and just find out who’ll benefit from the sales

Xcellor

Dubl07 wrote: »

Orangutans and other species are already being wiped out because of palm oil. Almond milk production uses vast amounts of water in already warm so water-poor areas affecting wildlife, people and farms.

If we were all to go vegan, there would be no cattle, sheep, chickens, pigs, geese, pheasants, partridges, turkeys etc except in zoos or as pets for the wealthy.

Not my scene. I'll look for high-welfare meat, but I'm utterly against lab-grown franken-meat.

Yes they are. Making sensible choices when it comes to food is an individual responsibility.

These animals didn't exist before humans farmed them?

High welfare meat. Well cared for by the butcher is it?

On what basis are you against franken meat? Do you mean lab grown meat?

Christy42

Xcellor wrote: »

Yes they are. Making sensible choices when it comes to food is an individual responsibility.

These animals didn't exist before humans farmed them?

High welfare meat. Well cared for by the butcher is it?

On what basis are you against franken meat? Do you mean lab grown meat?

They didn't exist in their current forms. Animals have been bred in captivity and have minor evolutions over the last few thousand years. Similarly cats and dogs. Stick a pug back in the wild and see how long it lasts (don't actually obviously). Plus there is no real place for the vast numbers we have in captivity.

Having said that franken meat should be just fine. Same genetically as actual meat so no one will be able to tell the difference. Probably still a ways off.

@Siamsa: right well there is money in it. Agenda in the title is overselling it for me. I am not sure company makes money selling overpriced veg is really worth a thread?

jaymla627

Xcellor wrote: »

Yes they are. Making sensible choices when it comes to food is an individual responsibility.

These animals didn't exist before humans farmed them?

High welfare meat. Well cared for by the butcher is it?

On what basis are you against franken meat? Do you mean lab grown meat?

FDA in america wont and cant pass frankeinstin meat as safe for human consumption as any trials on lab rats have concluded longterm and eatin regularly will seriously compromise your health and well-being. goggle it, your eyes will be opened

gozunda

Xcellor wrote: »

Being plant based has been proven to be healthy when done right same as any other standard diet really. Documentaries like What the Health / Game changers - both available on netfix show some health benefits. These have to be watched with a pinch of salt. The reversal of type 2 diabetes though and heart disease - make it worthwhile to consider. Though anecdotal my cholesterol / blood pressure/gout have all improved significantly since becoming plant based. Then there is the planet. People are becoming more aware of environmental concerns. Diet changes are probably the single thing that everyone can do, even if its a reduction rather than elimination of carbon heavy foods whether that animal/plant production (oat milk versus almond milk versus cow milk. avoiding palm oil etc)
Most people are very uncomfortable when they see how cruel and exploitative animal agriculture can be. The vast majority of which is factory farmed. Couple of expose type documentaries....There are a lot of reasons to consider going plant based. I think these far outweigh the "It tastes so good" , "We've always eaten meat." "Don't lions eat meat.

Yup more plant food industry type propaganda there. Tbh little different from many of the usual pro vegan stuff posted previously. As for those 'documentaries' 'what the health'- they are pure rubbish, comprising misinformation and pure utter scutter presented as fact.

There are a lot more reasons to consider not going plant based imo. I think these reasons far outweigh the usual bs such as "humans are herbivores" , " "meat is nuclear waste" (or wtte) "monkeys dont eat meat" etc

emaherx

Xcellor wrote: »

These animals didn't exist before humans farmed them?

They didn't materialize from thin air.
Below is an illustration of what cattle looked like before humans farmed them. It's a bit weird that certain vegans seem to think that cattle should be wiped out of existence as they don't belong but there is actually very little between some of our older cattle breeds and the now extinct aurochs.

gozunda

emaherx wrote: »

They didn't materialize from thin air.
Below is an illustration of what cattle looked like before humans farmed them. It's a bit weird that certain vegans seem to think that cattle should be wiped out of existence as they don't belong but there is actually very little between some of our older cattle breeds and the now extinct aurochs.

If we are going to wipe out those breeds as 'unnatural' - we need to start with the many arable and vegetable crops which truely bear little resemblance to their wild cousins. Remember it's important to be consistent about these things and not be seen to be hypocritical in any way tbh.

After all these vegetables didn't exist before humans farmed them ...

_Brian

gozunda wrote: »

If we are going to wipe out those breeds as 'unnatural' - we need to start with the many arable and vegetable crops which truely bear little resemblance to their wild cousins. Remember it's important to be consistent about these things and not be seen to be hypocritical in any way tbh.

After all these vegetables didn't exist before humans farmed them ...

I’ve recently listened to lots of the Farmaama podcasts and a reoccurring theme is how these modern varieties are soo poor for both environment growers and consumers.

They are bad for the environment because they rely heavily on chemical fertiliser, herbicides and pesticides.

Bad for the grower as with their shallow roots they can’t access the deep minerals, they are intolerant of drought with such short root systems. Short stems mean less straw to form manure to return to the land, monoculture is far more prone to wipeout from disease.

Poor for consumers as they are lacking in much of the minerals that heirloom varieties had, taste too is sacrificed for appearance and shelf life.

The only winners are middlemen who handle what used to be food but now are just traceable commodities.

Sadly extremist vegan groups think we can further intensify growing these miserable crops and improve human nutrition and planet issues when in fact it would be adding to an already identifiable set of problems with non animal farming.

So even with arable farming the industrialisation has caused serious problems, this isn’t something people should be aspiring to increase.

Xcellor

gozunda wrote: »

Yup more plant food industry type propaganda there. Tbh little different from many of the usual comments posted previously. As for those 'documentaries' 'what the health'- they are pure rubbish, comprising misinformation and pure utter scutter presented as fact.

There are a lot more reasons to consider not going plant based imo. I think these reasons far outweigh the usual bs such as "humans are herbivores" , " "meat is nuclear waste" (or wtte) "monkeys dont eat meat" etc

I don't think they are pure rubbish but they do need to be taken with a pinch of salt. It's an option to consider before going on a pill for life which in my case was the only suggestion given to me by my GP. It's can be objectively measured , the before and the after which was compelling in my case.

Plant based doesn't necessarily mean cutting out all meat/dairy. It's often confused with veganism. They aren't the same thing.

J.O. Farmer

Xcellor wrote: »

Plant based doesn't necessarily mean cutting out all meat/dairy. It's often confused with veganism. They aren't the same thing.

Hmmm, cattle eat grass, does that mean beef could be technically classed as plant based. It's made from plants in natural processing factories aka cattle.

Xcellor

emaherx wrote: »

They didn't materialize from thin air.
Below is an illustration of what cattle looked like before humans farmed them. It's a bit weird that certain vegans seem to think that cattle should be wiped out of existence as they don't belong but there is actually very little between some of our older cattle breeds and the now extinct aurochs.

Who is saying they should be wiped out? I think the point is to stop breeding them for the explicit purpose of farming. We "wipe out" ~ 100 billion animals a year which is driven by demand. Some animals have been bred to the point their very existence in a means they are suffering - turkeys apparently can't even naturally reproduce due to their size now.

emaherx

Xcellor wrote: »

Plant based doesn't necessarily mean cutting out all meat/dairy. It's often confused with veganism. They aren't the same thing.

So the way most omnivores eat anyway?

Going plant based most often means going vegan what else would it mean. Most of our food is already plant based.

Xcellor

emaherx wrote: »

So they way most omnivores eat anyway?

Going plant based most often means going vegan what else would it mean. Most of our food is already plant based.

The vast bulk of protein in the typical omnivore diet comes from meat/eggs/milk.