The solution to CIE's financial issues? Nominal charge for FTP holders?

TK Lemon · 29-12-2019 10:14pm #1

The data is a bit old but according to this article, there are 948,000 free travel pass holders in Ireland and there were 30.4 million journeys made in 2018.
If everyone with a free travel pass was charged a nominal €0.20 (twenty cent!) per week which would be deducted from jobseekers, state pension, private pension, disability, wages or whatever income the person has this would generate just under €10 million for CIE.
Bus Eireann has a deficit of €6.3 million as of 2019.
Irish Rail has a deficit of €1.1 million as of 2019.
The combined deficit is €7.4 million.

This paltry amount would be sufficient to pay the budget deficit of CIE and then some.
Source for FTP data: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/free-travel-scheme-in-doubt-amid-fears-of-overuse-1.4002887

Source for BE deficit: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/passenger-numbers-reach-10-year-high-at-bus-%C3%A9ireann-1.3898061

dashcamdanny · 30-12-2019 1:54am

The left would rise up and claim that the 30.4 million journeys are to important medical appointments that would have to be canceled if they had to pay.

Which would be a result in people dieing.

fritzelly · 30-12-2019 2:42am

Why not increase the fare by 20c and hey presto debt wiped out.

Atlantic Dawn · 30-12-2019 2:58am

A big problem is it's not just the elderly or disabled getting the passes it's also junkies who actually deter fee paying users from the services offered.

The solution is free travel for all, it was costed at €500 million a year. I'd certainly be more conscious of using the car if I knew I could travel for free.

Idbatterim · 30-12-2019 3:39am

It’s laughable. Free travel on top of the worlds most obscene welfare state. Appalling transport system too , what a surprise !

joeysoap · 30-12-2019 12:59pm

I am 70 and have FT. I use it about 15 times a year, sometimes for hospital appointments, some times for leisure, I have a car which is mainly used for shopping and short hops. I don’t enjoy driving any more, and find it quite stressful.
FT differs with location. Obviously Dublin is well served, some parts of Ireland less so. I am fairly well served, with frequent trains and busses to Dublin. Though I have never used Dublin bus, I find the Lucas and Dart terrific.

I think I read somewhere that pensioners make up the minority of pass holders, though I find that hard to believe. I have seen passes used by younger people, so I assume they are entitled to them.

€1 per train journey per passenger, 50c per bus journey over 25 Kms and maybe an opt in/ opt out small payment scheme for Dart, Luas and Dublin bus. Yearly. But that might cost more in administration than its worth. FWIW I appreciate the pass and life would be a lot more restrictive without it.

whisky_galore · 30-12-2019 1:01pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

A big problem is it's not just the elderly or disabled getting the passes it's also junkies who actually deter fee paying users from the services offered.

The solution is free travel for all, it was costed at €500 million a year. I'd certainly be more conscious of using the car if I knew I could travel for free.

Dublin- Cork service is a free drugs shipment corridor for the "most vulnerable".

Tails142 · 30-12-2019 1:05pm

joeysoap wrote: »

FWIW I appreciate the pass and life would be a lot more restrictive without it.

Why? Could you not afford to buy ticket?

suicide_circus · 30-12-2019 2:07pm

As an example, Austria has a world class public transport system, probably the best i've ever used. This is a country that give 2/3 years paid parental leave and hospital waiting lists are almost unheard of. Do they offer free travel passes? No. Why? Because that would be insane. They offer discounts but thats it.

magicbastarder · 30-12-2019 2:34pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

the worlds most obscene welfare state.

that's quite a claim, and weirdly, one i have no interest in hearing a justification for it proffered.

end of the road · 30-12-2019 6:04pm

dashcamdanny wrote: »

The left would rise up and claim that the 30.4 million journeys are to important medical appointments that would have to be canceled if they had to pay.

Which would be a result in people dieing.

it's nothing to do with the left, it's to do with cost, for which it would likely cost more to administrate it and pay for extra staff then it would likely bring in.
the scheme is the free travel scheme, if you are going to start charging those who are entitled to avail of the scheme then you may as well just abolish it.

Idbatterim wrote: »

It’s laughable. Free travel on top of the worlds most obscene welfare state. Appalling transport system too , what a surprise !

nope wrong, ireland's wellfare state is not the world's most anything wellfare state.
it is a very basic service to insure basic living standards for those who need supports.
i am happy that it exists and i am in all likely hood having less of my tax going to it, then if it didn't exist for which i would probably end up having quite a bit of my taxes going to sort out the fall out.

Wishbone Ash · 30-12-2019 6:28pm

TK Lemon wrote: »

...If everyone with a free travel pass was charged a nominal €0.20 (twenty cent!) per week...

Claims would be made that it's the thin edge of the wedge and it would quickly rise (like the prescription charge).

It would also probably cost more to administer than it would take it.

LeinsterDub · 30-12-2019 7:15pm

Give CIE the same subventions we give roads ?

GerardKeating · 30-12-2019 11:05pm

TK Lemon wrote: »

If everyone with a free travel pass was charged a nominal €0.20 (twenty cent!) per week

Would this replace the existing money CIÉ recieved for the Free Travel Pass ?

Vic_08 · 31-12-2019 12:26am

GerardKeating wrote: »

Would this replace the existing money CIÉ recieved for the Free Travel Pass ?

You mean the money that has not increased with inflation, rising numbers of issued passes or rising numbers of passengers, the scheme that a senior official in the DSP described as a very good deal for them?

The same scheme that was considered so open to fraud and misuse that the Northern Ireland office preferred at considerable expense to themselves to issue their own passes to qualifying ROI applicants instead of allowing acceptance of the ROI pass north of the border.

I cannot speak for other operators but the 3 CIE companies are grossly under paid for the carriage of passholders and have been for a very long time and that is not counting the lost revenue from fare paying passengers choosing not to spend time in close proximity to the anti social element that travel extensively on CIE services using passes.

fritzelly · 31-12-2019 12:35am

Free travel pass is a free for all - shouldn't be a free pass for everyone on disability unless your disability impairs your movement or you're over 66. Know a couple of people who are full of health on disability but due to their condition have a free pass - no reason at all for it.
The number of people getting buses to work with passes is unreal
Regardless it wouldn't help CIE as it wouldn't affect their income, just a few less passengers

AulWan · 31-12-2019 12:36am

Just so you're clear on who, exactly, gets Free Travel Passes

https://www.gov.ie/en/service/9bba61-free-travel-scheme/

For example, those on Jobseekers do not automatically get free travel passes, so it would hardly be fair to cut money from their payment for this!

Vic_08 · 31-12-2019 12:49am

fritzelly wrote: »

Regardless it wouldn't help CIE as it wouldn't affect their income, just a few less passengers

Yes it would. These people wouldn't suddenly stop travelling if the pass was taken away. The amount of journeys made would reduce and some would use cars instead but it would only take a small % to pay for their travel to be revenue positive because the rate of pay for the FT scheme is so low.

I don't know where the idea has propagated from that the free travel scheme is just a harmless addition of a few people taking up empty seats who otherwise wouldn't travel. It covers a significant % of the population and in the demographics who would be heavier users of public transport it is significantly higher.

L1011 · 31-12-2019 12:52am

Pandoras Box is opened. No controls on FTP availability will ever be publicly acceptable; but going to a Luxembourg/Tallinn citizen free transit option is semi viable in the medium term - probably only when there is a significant increase in local property taxation to fund it.

fritzelly · 31-12-2019 12:53am

You seriously think there are that many FTP users on CIE that if they curtailed the qualification it would make that much of a difference?
Wouldn't come close to their clearing their debts - the debts which have more underlying causes.

fritzelly · 31-12-2019 1:02am

L1011 wrote: »

Pandoras Box is opened. No controls on FTP availability will ever be publicly acceptable; but going to a Luxembourg/Tallinn citizen free transit option is semi viable in the medium term - probably only when there is a significant increase in local property taxation to fund it.

Since bus routes are a known cost why is it not looked at?
Not just Tallin but the whole country isn't it?

Addle · 31-12-2019 1:19am

Medical card holders got used to paying a nominal fee for prescriptions, I think ftp holders should pay a seat reservation fee.

Vic_08 · 31-12-2019 1:20am

fritzelly wrote: »

You seriously think there are that many FTP users on CIE that if they curtailed the qualification it would make that much of a difference?
Wouldn't come close to their clearing their debts - the debts which have more underlying causes.

You really have no idea, most people don't, the FT usage here is huge, especially notable are the amount of working age people with no serious mobility issues using them.

The amount of fraudulent use is also far higher than most people imagine, it is constant heavy use by a sizeable % of pass presenters in various forms, fake passes, fraudulently obtained passes, stolen passes, passes used beyond the end of the holder's valid claim (mainly because the DSP couldn't be arsed to put an expiry date on them), and the biggest of them all hand-me-down or reported lost passes being used by relatives/friends of the legitimate holder.

I drove a mix of Bus Eireann service types for 10 years. The amount of FT use varied massively from journey to journey and route but it could be as high as 4 or 5 free travel to every 1 paying passenger day in day out on some duties.

Some towns were so heavy with FT use that you could almost put away the ticket machine even if there was a dozen under 65s waiting to board.

As for clearing CIE debts, if the FT scheme hadn't been so out of control then their finances would look very different now anyway, it is no coincidence that the deficits mushroomed after the recession had hit, the numbers paying declined sharply but if anything the FT usage increased. Most notable (to me anyway) was the drop in Eastern Europeans who had been heavy fare-paying users up to 2010-11, maybe it was more noticeable due to the absence of fare-payers but the numbers of foreign nationals presenting FT increased considerably also.

fritzelly · 31-12-2019 1:26am

I've heard that story before and if it is so true then why is CIE not putting forward a case for limitations on its use? Hey we're losing millions because no one is paying for the service!
Personally I don't see a reason for FTP to be used at any peak times - and before people come and say people have appointments, well hospitals are open all day long not just at 9am

Caquas · 31-12-2019 1:40am

Now you can always bring a pal on your free trip, just claim you’re married.

They will be on the front page of the Irish Times if they ask for proof of marriage, especially if your travelling companion is the same sex.

http://https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/irish-rail-apologises-to-married-lesbian-couple-who-were-asked-for-proof-of-union-1.4121854

L1011 · 31-12-2019 1:43am

fritzelly wrote: »

Since bus routes are a known cost why is it not looked at?
Not just Tallin but the whole country isn't it?

I think it's just Tallinn city council but that could have changed. Bus driver was surprised and had difficulty remembering how to sell return tickets when we went to the Teletorn as non citizens.

Caquas wrote: »

Now you can always bring a pal on your free trip, just claim you’re married.

They will be on the front page of the Irish Times if they ask for proof of marriage, especially if your travelling companion is the same sex.

http://https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/irish-rail-apologises-to-married-lesbian-couple-who-were-asked-for-proof-of-union-1.4121854

Feel free to suggest a way around that.

fritzelly · 31-12-2019 1:45am

Caquas wrote: »

Now you can always bring a pal on your free trip, just claim you’re married.

They will be on the front page of the Irish Times if they ask for proof of marriage, especially if your travelling companion is the same sex.

http://https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/irish-rail-apologises-to-married-lesbian-couple-who-were-asked-for-proof-of-union-1.4121854

I thought it was a companion pass i.e. you can bring anyone with you? Didn't think it was actually a partner/husband/wife pass

L1011 · 31-12-2019 1:57am

fritzelly wrote: »

I thought it was a companion pass i.e. you can bring anyone with you? Didn't think it was actually a partner/husband/wife pass

There's a companion pass and a spouse pass. The one in question here is the latter.

The latter caused a problem in the past, before civil partnerships let alone SSM, when the DSP ruled that it was OK to refuse same sex partners - which allowed a small number of people who had been refused dole due to a partner earning to challenge it as the DSP had decided they had no connection. Civil Partnership coming in fixed that.

Idbatterim · 31-12-2019 2:35am

It’s this banana republic all over. Always the victim, never to blame. I love the welfare state defenders too , you can be damn sure they aren’t working or at least aren’t paying the outrageous marginal rate of tax!

Vic_08 · 31-12-2019 2:52am

fritzelly wrote: »

I've heard that story before and if it is so true

I really don't appreciate the inference that I am lying.

fritzelly wrote: »

I thought it was a companion pass i.e. you can bring anyone with you? Didn't think it was actually a partner/husband/wife pass

You appear not to be well informed on this topic, you are not even aware that Spousal and Companion passes are 2 separate categories but you somehow feel you know enough to dismiss what I experienced over years of checking free travel users. That is pretty insulting.

fritzelly wrote: »

then why is CIE not putting forward a case for limitations on its use? Hey we're losing millions because no one is paying for the service!

CIE is not exactly a self-determining company, they have without complaint handed over the majority of their bus network to the NTA to be hived off to rival companies to the detriment of their company and staff. It is fair to say that senior CIE management know exactly who rubber stamps their generous salaries and why it is not in their best interests to bite the hand of the dog..

Go find a public statement by any senior CIE official that is critical of government policy or operation.

I can assure you the gaping chasm of free travel and the issues around fraud and the DSP's complete indifference to the harm it was doing to the company's revenue was brought up at every opportunity by frontline staff to both management and unions. It was stated as an area we believed they were ignoring and was particularly strongly put forward as one of the main reasons we objected to staff pay and condition cuts due to worsening company finances. The whole issue was completely ignored by them.

Caquas wrote: »

Now you can always bring a pal on your free trip, just claim you’re married.

They will be on the front page of the Irish Times if they ask for proof of marriage, especially if your travelling companion is the same sex.

http://https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/irish-rail-apologises-to-married-lesbian-couple-who-were-asked-for-proof-of-union-1.4121854

It's not the first time that has been an issue and I'm sure won't be the last. It's fair to say that the spouse pass is wide open to abuse and the way it is set up leaves very little ability for staff to detect fraudulent use and the chancers know this.

It is one area that the new passes are even worse than the old cardboard yokes which at least had one way to verify the person being presented as a spouse wasn't just some random person without demanding a marriage licence.

I won't go into the time I was accused of similar when I challenged a woman attempting to bring another woman as a spouse but suffice to say I was always very careful how I spoke to people and the outcome was them pretty much admitting they were trying it on and the second person meekly paying their fare.

L1011 wrote: »

Feel free to suggest a way around that.

Withdraw the stupid spouse pass entirely, it really is a throwback to when the little woman was little more than an appendage to the man of the house and couldn't be expected to pay her own way.

Why the hell should being married or living with someone with a pass entitle you to free travel as well?

If it must stay then stop allowing travel for 2 people on 1 pass, issue the spouse with their own pass with a clear restriction it is only valid when travelling with person YYY with pass No. 1234567.

The only restriction on the Companion passes is that the companion is over 16 (and yes, I have had people trying to bring kiddies for free on these and getting stroppy when refused, too weak to travel unaided but strong enough to hurl abuse at a bus driver, nah there is nothing at all wrong with our handout culture) so they are appropriate for the 1 pass to validate travel for 2.

L1011 · 31-12-2019 3:07am

Vic_08 wrote: »

CIE is not exactly a self-determining company, they have without complaint handed over the majority of their bus network to the NTA

CIE had absolutely no say in this matter

Criticising an inevitability would have been a waste of air.

Vic_08 · 31-12-2019 3:39am

hapime wrote: »

This!!!
You work hard all day and then you have the choice of the car or get the bus home sitting beside some scumbag, 50/50 chance that they will stink of BO as well.
Too many people have FTP, seems to be all you need is a hang nail and you can get one.
If you can walk/run like normal folk why are you getting a FTP?
Going to the gym/football practice/a hike up the mountains and so on, why do they have FTP?

I can honestly say there were occasions I felt guilty having to charge people high fares after waving past countless examples of the dregs of our society free gratis, especially if it was busy and people were forced to spend hours in close quarters with some of the worse examples.

I have refused people because of the state of them as well as abuse and aggression towards me and other passengers and even got in a spot of bother when relatively new on the job for refusing to take an individual who was rank, a story for another time that one.

Vic_08 · 31-12-2019 4:00am

L1011 wrote: »

CIE had absolutely no say in this matter

Criticising an inevitability would have been a waste of air.

Maybe so but it is an example of why the board of CIE, the individual companies and senior management are more agents of the state, DoT and Minister for Transport than they are officers of the companies they nominally work for representing it's best interests.

Can you imagine the management of Aircoach or gobus or any other operator sitting idly by while their company is cut off at the knees and their operation whipped away? Of course not, their jobs are to protect their company and ensure it's survival and success.

CIE management does not do this, they are there to run the company as the sole shareholder (the MoT) wishes, not to criticise government policy including the raw deal their company is dealt by the Free Travel scheme.

This is at the heart of why CIE lurches from one crisis to another, when it suits the government it is expected to play ball while it is wilfully damaged by policy that is clearly against the interest of the company and on the flipside it is treated as an independent entity that has to take sort out it's woes internally as if it a normal company.

Wishbone Ash · 31-12-2019 9:12am

hapime wrote: »

...If you can walk/run like normal folk why are you getting a FTP?
Going to the gym/football practice/a hike up the mountains and so on, why do they have FTP?

It has nothing to do with mobility. If a person has a disability which prevents them from gaining normal employment, they are usually entitled to a pass. Everyone with an intellectual disability is entitled to a pass even though many do not have a physical disability.

LeinsterDub · 31-12-2019 10:32am

Idbatterim wrote: »

It’s this banana republic all over. Always the victim, never to blame. I love the welfare state defenders too , you can be damn sure they aren’t working or at least aren’t paying the outrageous marginal rate of tax!

You can't eliminate all fraud so the choice comes down to accepting it will occur and attempting to eliminate it as much as possible or having no system at all. But of course we can solve CIE's money issue by making the most vulnerable in society pay while trillion dollar companies pay nearly nothing and billionaires do the same.

Before you suggest it both work and pay the highest amounts of tax

ThunbergsAreGo · 31-12-2019 10:35am

end of the road wrote: »

it's nothing to do with the left, it's to do with cost, for which it would likely cost more to administrate it and pay for extra staff then it would likely bring in.
the scheme is the free travel scheme, if you are going to start charging those who are entitled to avail of the scheme then you may as well just abolish it.

Why would it cost extra and need extra staff?

ThunbergsAreGo · 31-12-2019 10:39am

AulWan wrote: »

Just so you're clear on who, exactly, gets Free Travel Passes

https://www.gov.ie/en/service/9bba61-free-travel-scheme/

For example, those on Jobseekers do not automatically get free travel passes, so it would hardly be fair to cut money from their payment for this!

This is over 25% of the adult population??
Or 10% of non pensioners?

Someethingg doesn't add up there - the criteria there looks pretty specific

silver2020 · 31-12-2019 10:45am

anything free is abused by a large number of people.

"Free" GP visits by under 6's and the number of under 6's attending gp's for a scratch on the knee or a sniffle of the nose is phenomenal. A €10 fee should apply.

"Free" travel. Again, abused by many. The peak time restrictions should be brought back and a nominal €1/journey fee applied to peak local travel.
A €5 return charge should be made to all non local zone trips at peak times. EG Train from Dublin to Kilkenny.

So it still provides free travel, but puts a premium on peak times where space is a premium.

An example of how it works is the €2/€1.50 prescription charge - when it was brought in the number of prescriptions filled dropped substantially and saved the taxpayer millions.

LeinsterDub · 31-12-2019 11:19am

silver2020 wrote: »

An example of how it works is the €2/€1.50 prescription charge - when it was brought in the number of prescriptions filled dropped substantially and saved the taxpayer millions.

On one side of the ledger. What it didn't show was affect it had on those who honestly couldn't afford it. How many end up in A&E as they need to stretch out their inhaler till the end of the week or whatever. How many people died for the sake of a few million

Caquas · 31-12-2019 11:24am

fritzelly wrote: »

I thought it was a companion pass i.e. you can bring anyone with you? Didn't think it was actually a partner/husband/wife pass

You only get a companion pass if you are medically assessed as unfit to travel alone. And then you can only travel for free when you are accompanied.

If they can’t check your marital status for fear of the media, then everyone gets to bring someone for free. Just have your “how dare you” face ready!

Addle · 31-12-2019 11:24am

LeinsterDub wrote: »

On one side of the ledger. What it didn't show was affect it had on those who honestly couldn't afford it. How many end up in A&E as they need to stretch out their inhaler till the end of the week or whatever. How many people died for the sake of a few million

How many?

LeinsterDub · 31-12-2019 11:34am

Addle wrote: »

How many?

Government's who implement such policies don't tend to to the research.

https://www.pharmaceutical-journal.com/news-and-analysis/prescription-charges-backfire-on-uk-health-andnbspwealth/20203213.article

However it seems significant

Addle · 31-12-2019 11:42am

I know a couple of pharmacists who work in the north, and some of their customers wouldn’t even by sudocreme for their babies nappy rash or sun block for their holidays unless it was prescribed and free on the nhs.
I don’t have any sympathy for people who don’t prioritize their health over discretionary spending.

I think it’s a great country that respects its elders and incapacitated and allows them free travel. As usual, it’s the scroungers who take advantage that ruin such programmes for everyone.

LeinsterDub · 31-12-2019 11:54am

Addle wrote: »

I know a couple of pharmacists who work in the north, and some of their customers wouldn’t even by sudocreme for their babies nappy rash or sun block for their holidays unless it was prescribed and free on the nhs.
I don’t have any sympathy for people who don’t prioritize their health over discretionary spending.

I think it’s a great country that respects its elders and incapacitated and allows them free travel. As usual, it’s the scroungers who take advantage that ruin such programmes for everyone.

How many?

How often do you pay for things that you're entitled to get for free? I assume you refuse to use two for one offers for example

Addle · 31-12-2019 12:00pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

How many?

How often do you pay for things that you're entitled to get for free? I assume you refuse to use two for one offers for example

I wouldn’t leave a baby uncomfortable because I refused to buy something that was easily available for me to buy.

I don’t believe paying a nominal amount for a prescription has lead to suffering for genuine people and I don’t think paying a nominal amount to travel on public transport would either.

Addle · 31-12-2019 12:04pm

antix80 wrote: »

The A&Es are filled with idiots with medical cards who won't wait a few days to see their GP.
And the reason gp's are fully booked is because people can see them for free.
...
Remember, these people aren't getting hampers of food. They're getting cash every week, and many are choosing to spend it on stupid things while undervaluing important things like transport and healthcare.

Ya, when I hear about overcrowding in a&e I wonder why some of them are there, and should they be there at all.

Same with patients not canceling free appointments and just being no shows. They’d have respect for the system if they were directly paying for their appointments.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 31-12-2019 12:16pm

Addle wrote: »

I don’t believe paying a nominal amount for a prescription has lead to suffering for genuine people and I don’t think paying a nominal amount to travel on public transport would either.

I'm sure there's someone who messed up and is an idiot and didn't take meds to save money and ended up in hospital.

But there are idiots everywhere.

antix80 wrote: »

The A&Es are filled with idiots with medical cards who won't wait a few days to see their GP.
And the reason gp's are fully booked is because people can see them for free.

There's definite truth in this view.

trellheim · 31-12-2019 12:16pm

Anyone remember back when we had free university fees ? A nominal registration charge was then introduced , which is currently a couple of grand ( and dont @ me about how its not 'free' you know what i mean )

silver2020 · 31-12-2019 12:22pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Government's who implement such policies don't tend to to the research.

https://www.pharmaceutical-journal.com/news-and-analysis/prescription-charges-backfire-on-uk-health-andnbspwealth/20203213.article

However it seems significant

We are in Ireland. Not the UK.

Our prescription charge is €2 / €1.50, Not £9stg

Social welfare payments are on average DOUBLE those of the UK.

So, as another poster asked - can you show any Irish figures that show how a small nominal prescription charge has caused undue hardship - or "deaths" as you hysterically state.

Please use an Irish source, not something from a totally different country

road_high · 31-12-2019 1:14pm

The deeply ingrained welfare culture is breath taking in Ireland- among a certain very vocal cohort (those that pay for nothing) there's an expectation that the "government" should pay for everything.
Unlimited free public transport is insanity - a public resource that is limited by its nature should always have a limit on it. Our welfare rates are already amongst the highest in the world so expecting someone to pay a nominal fee to shift their carcass will be negligible to their standard of living.

Same crap here with the so called homeless and free dinner/food parcel brigade. I can stroll into my local Aldi and feed myself (well) for €20 for a week yet these lot seemingly can't survive on the very generous welfare payments and fringe benefits. There's something very wrong with either how these lot spend their money or we are not getting the entire truth.

end of the road · 31-12-2019 2:01pm

fritzelly wrote: »

Free travel pass is a free for all - shouldn't be a free pass for everyone on disability unless your disability impairs your movement or you're over 66. Know a couple of people who are full of health on disability but due to their condition have a free pass - no reason at all for it.
The number of people getting buses to work with passes is unreal
Regardless it wouldn't help CIE as it wouldn't affect their income, just a few less passengers

not every disability is visible. someone may look to be perfectly healthy and not be so.
if you believe the individuals you know are committing fraud then report it.

fritzelly wrote: »

I've heard that story before and if it is so true then why is CIE not putting forward a case for limitations on its use? Hey we're losing millions because no one is paying for the service!
Personally I don't see a reason for FTP to be used at any peak times - and before people come and say people have appointments, well hospitals are open all day long not just at 9am

yes and they have plenty of people to see. appointments are available when they are available, and if someone is called to go to one at peak time, then that is when they go.
the hospitals aren't going to organise their appointments in a way to keep people complaining about the odd ftp holder on peak time transport happy because it would in all likely hood make things more inefficient then they already are.

Idbatterim wrote: »

It’s this banana republic all over. Always the victim, never to blame. I love the welfare state defenders too , you can be damn sure they aren’t working or at least aren’t paying the outrageous marginal rate of tax!

indeed, people like yourself complaining about a basic provision are always the victim.
plenty of those defending the basic wellfare state we have which would likely cost us less then not having it, are working and paying taxes, some of us quite a bit, but instead of playing the victim, we understand why we have wellfare supports for those who need them.
sure, some abuse it and they need to be caught and stopped, but if you want it gone altogether, be prepared to pay even more in taxes.

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Why would it cost extra and need extra staff?

administration and enforcement costs.
extra staff will need to be employed to make it work.
waste of money tbh.

silver2020 wrote: »

anything free is abused by a large number of people.

"Free" GP visits by under 6's and the number of under 6's attending gp's for a scratch on the knee or a sniffle of the nose is phenomenal. A €10 fee should apply.

"Free" travel. Again, abused by many. The peak time restrictions should be brought back and a nominal €1/journey fee applied to peak local travel.
A €5 return charge should be made to all non local zone trips at peak times. EG Train from Dublin to Kilkenny.

So it still provides free travel, but puts a premium on peak times where space is a premium.

An example of how it works is the €2/€1.50 prescription charge - when it was brought in the number of prescriptions filled dropped substantially and saved the taxpayer millions.

it provides partial free travel with a pointless restriction for which the costs of sorting out would be better spent.
space is a premium at peak times yes however that's just life i'm afraid. first come first served, and the inability to guarantee a seat is the only way things can work at that time of day really.
the number of priscriptions may have dropped with the proscription charge but that doesn't mean people ar paying, but rather some may be forgoing them due to cost, which may not ultimately add up to saving the tax payer millions if that is the case, assuming conditions may get worse.
a blanket statement of saving the tax payer millions cannot therefore be said or even believed with certainty due to possible variables.

The solution to CIE's financial issues? Nominal charge for FTP holders?

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