The solution to CIE's financial issues? Nominal charge for FTP holders?

The left would rise up and claim that the 30.4 million journeys are to important medical appointments that would have to be canceled if they had to pay.

Which would be a result in people dieing.

A big problem is it's not just the elderly or disabled getting the passes it's also junkies who actually deter fee paying users from the services offered.

The solution is free travel for all, it was costed at €500 million a year. I'd certainly be more conscious of using the car if I knew I could travel for free.

I am 70 and have FT. I use it about 15 times a year, sometimes for hospital appointments, some times for leisure, I have a car which is mainly used for shopping and short hops. I don’t enjoy driving any more, and find it quite stressful.
FT differs with location. Obviously Dublin is well served, some parts of Ireland less so. I am fairly well served, with frequent trains and busses to Dublin. Though I have never used Dublin bus, I find the Lucas and Dart terrific.

I think I read somewhere that pensioners make up the minority of pass holders, though I find that hard to believe. I have seen passes used by younger people, so I assume they are entitled to them.


€1 per train journey per passenger, 50c per bus journey over 25 Kms and maybe an opt in/ opt out small payment scheme for Dart, Luas and Dublin bus. Yearly. But that might cost more in administration than its worth. FWIW I appreciate the pass and life would be a lot more restrictive without it.

joeysoap wrote: »

FWIW I appreciate the pass and life would be a lot more restrictive without it.

Why? Could you not afford to buy ticket?

TK Lemon wrote: »

...If everyone with a free travel pass was charged a nominal €0.20 (twenty cent!) per week...

Claims would be made that it's the thin edge of the wedge and it would quickly rise (like the prescription charge).

It would also probably cost more to administer than it would take it.

TK Lemon wrote: »

If everyone with a free travel pass was charged a nominal €0.20 (twenty cent!) per week

Would this replace the existing money CIÉ recieved for the Free Travel Pass ?

Free travel pass is a free for all - shouldn't be a free pass for everyone on disability unless your disability impairs your movement or you're over 66. Know a couple of people who are full of health on disability but due to their condition have a free pass - no reason at all for it.
The number of people getting buses to work with passes is unreal
Regardless it wouldn't help CIE as it wouldn't affect their income, just a few less passengers

fritzelly wrote: »

Regardless it wouldn't help CIE as it wouldn't affect their income, just a few less passengers

Yes it would. These people wouldn't suddenly stop travelling if the pass was taken away. The amount of journeys made would reduce and some would use cars instead but it would only take a small % to pay for their travel to be revenue positive because the rate of pay for the FT scheme is so low.

I don't know where the idea has propagated from that the free travel scheme is just a harmless addition of a few people taking up empty seats who otherwise wouldn't travel. It covers a significant % of the population and in the demographics who would be heavier users of public transport it is significantly higher.

You seriously think there are that many FTP users on CIE that if they curtailed the qualification it would make that much of a difference?
Wouldn't come close to their clearing their debts - the debts which have more underlying causes.

Medical card holders got used to paying a nominal fee for prescriptions, I think ftp holders should pay a seat reservation fee.

I've heard that story before and if it is so true then why is CIE not putting forward a case for limitations on its use? Hey we're losing millions because no one is paying for the service!
Personally I don't see a reason for FTP to be used at any peak times - and before people come and say people have appointments, well hospitals are open all day long not just at 9am

fritzelly wrote: »

I've heard that story before and if it is so true

I really don't appreciate the inference that I am lying.

fritzelly wrote: »

I thought it was a companion pass i.e. you can bring anyone with you? Didn't think it was actually a partner/husband/wife pass

You appear not to be well informed on this topic, you are not even aware that Spousal and Companion passes are 2 separate categories but you somehow feel you know enough to dismiss what I experienced over years of checking free travel users. That is pretty insulting.

fritzelly wrote: »

then why is CIE not putting forward a case for limitations on its use? Hey we're losing millions because no one is paying for the service!

CIE is not exactly a self-determining company, they have without complaint handed over the majority of their bus network to the NTA to be hived off to rival companies to the detriment of their company and staff. It is fair to say that senior CIE management know exactly who rubber stamps their generous salaries and why it is not in their best interests to bite the hand of the dog..

Go find a public statement by any senior CIE official that is critical of government policy or operation.

I can assure you the gaping chasm of free travel and the issues around fraud and the DSP's complete indifference to the harm it was doing to the company's revenue was brought up at every opportunity by frontline staff to both management and unions. It was stated as an area we believed they were ignoring and was particularly strongly put forward as one of the main reasons we objected to staff pay and condition cuts due to worsening company finances. The whole issue was completely ignored by them.

Caquas wrote: »

Now you can always bring a pal on your free trip, just claim you’re married.

They will be on the front page of the Irish Times if they ask for proof of marriage, especially if your travelling companion is the same sex.

http://https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/irish-rail-apologises-to-married-lesbian-couple-who-were-asked-for-proof-of-union-1.4121854

It's not the first time that has been an issue and I'm sure won't be the last. It's fair to say that the spouse pass is wide open to abuse and the way it is set up leaves very little ability for staff to detect fraudulent use and the chancers know this.

It is one area that the new passes are even worse than the old cardboard yokes which at least had one way to verify the person being presented as a spouse wasn't just some random person without demanding a marriage licence.

I won't go into the time I was accused of similar when I challenged a woman attempting to bring another woman as a spouse but suffice to say I was always very careful how I spoke to people and the outcome was them pretty much admitting they were trying it on and the second person meekly paying their fare.

L1011 wrote: »

Feel free to suggest a way around that.

Withdraw the stupid spouse pass entirely, it really is a throwback to when the little woman was little more than an appendage to the man of the house and couldn't be expected to pay her own way.

Why the hell should being married or living with someone with a pass entitle you to free travel as well?

If it must stay then stop allowing travel for 2 people on 1 pass, issue the spouse with their own pass with a clear restriction it is only valid when travelling with person YYY with pass No. 1234567.

The only restriction on the Companion passes is that the companion is over 16 (and yes, I have had people trying to bring kiddies for free on these and getting stroppy when refused, too weak to travel unaided but strong enough to hurl abuse at a bus driver, nah there is nothing at all wrong with our handout culture) so they are appropriate for the 1 pass to validate travel for 2.