The real problem with Housing in Ireland

mikemac2 · 26-12-2019 9:39am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/family-of-eight-to-endure-a-fourth-homeless-christmas-1.4124143?mode=amp

Margaret cash round 2, no personal responsibility, complete gouging for a free gaf.

The father works as a courier which can mean quite long hours. It's a normal family and they are willing to pay whatever rent the council set

Ah that's bit harsh. Not comparable to the Cash case at all

26-12-2019 10:27am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Margaret cashs family would be a family unit if the justice system didnt keep taking daddy away.
“Sold from under them” if the landlord was making money he wouldnt have sold or the bank may have taken it, dont put blame on him. They have a 3 bed apartment in dublin and are not homeless, theyve been on the housing list for over a decade and with that many kids it would be a miracle if they hadnt already been offered and refused a property. This is one of multiple stories about them campaigning fof 4 bed social houses so its clear what the target is.

The apartment doesnt have a back garden for horses so no use...

They’re a family United since his release from custody.

Maewyn Succat · 26-12-2019 10:41am

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I wonder when they were at it was someone saying the same about them?
People only get what they are eligible for. Just because it's getting tighter doesn't mean those eligible are getting less deserving.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Please explain..who's they? My parents?

Millicently · 26-12-2019 4:38pm

mikemac2 wrote: »

The father works as a courier which can mean quite long hours. It's a normal family and they are willing to pay whatever rent the council set

Ah that's bit harsh. Not comparable to the Cash case at all

The surname is the giveaway. I'm guessing it's exactly like the Cash case where no rent was paid and the only way to get rid of them was to sell the house. There have been a few houses where I live where the only way landlords were able to get rid of their nightmare tenants was to just sell up. The father of the kids is described as a Courier, that's fairly vague, it doesn't say how often he works or what his income is. 175 euro per fortnight in rent is nothing. With 6 kids and the bulk of their rent paid for them they're coining in more than a working couple with 2 kids who are renting privately or paying a mortgage.

SaintLeibowitz · 27-12-2019 12:11am

Yurt! wrote: »

I have to laugh, a Neo-Thatcherite praising one of the most disastrous social engineering policies of the 20th century to have a pop at social housing lists in Ireland.

FYI many demographers and economists maintain the one child policy didn't actually have any effect on the fertility rate which was in steep decline by the early 80s in any case. Those that wanted to have additional children had them anyway in the countryside without a hukou. I've met several.

A fairly pathetic post. In a free society, people have the god-given and constitutionally granted right to have as many children as they please, no matter what proto-fascist goons on the internet say.

.. And goons on the Internet we hope they remain.

Markcheese · 27-12-2019 12:35am

Anyway , housing ??
Lack of houses ...? Too expensive to build new houses ....

Idbatterim · 27-12-2019 1:01am

Too expensive to build apartments. If they were single aspect , they can be built much cheaper, way more efficient use of space. Of course there is the tax aspect too.

When lowvincome workers struggling to house themselves or can’t , paying a marginal tax rate if fifty percent. Of course Margaret cash etc will be brought up , workers could keep more of their income if there wasn’t a twenty one billion euro welfare slush fund!

Jinglejangle69 · 27-12-2019 9:01am

Idbatterim wrote: »

Too expensive to build apartments. If they were single aspect , they can be built much cheaper, way more efficient use of space. Of course there is the tax aspect too.

When lowvincome workers struggling to house themselves or can’t , paying a marginal tax rate if fifty percent. Of course Margaret cash etc will be brought up , workers could keep more of their income if there wasn’t a twenty one billion euro welfare slush fund!

No low income workers pay 50% tax.

1 million low income workers in Ireland pay no income tax so I’ve no idea where you get that figure from.

27-12-2019 9:08am

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

No low income workers pay 50% tax.

1 million low income workers in Ireland pay no income tax so I’ve no idea where you get that figure from.

Above 35k-ish you're into a very high marginal rate of tax (something close to 50%, not sure the exact figure). In Dublin especially that isn't a particularly high income.

Sweet.Science · 30-12-2019 8:35am

Markcheese wrote: »

Anyway , housing ??
Lack of houses ...? Too expensive to build new houses ....

New reports today say developers want to slow down building new houses

Wanderer78 · 30-12-2019 8:55am

Sweet.Science wrote: »

New reports today say developers want to slow down building new houses

market must be overheating!:rolleyes:

Idbatterim · 30-12-2019 9:09am

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

No low income workers pay 50% tax.

1 million low income workers in Ireland pay no income tax so I’ve no idea where you get that figure from.

The marginal rate which is fifty percent hits low income workers. 35k is a low income...

ThunbergsAreGo · 30-12-2019 9:54am

mikemac2 wrote: »

The father works as a courier which can mean quite long hours. It's a normal family and they are willing to pay whatever rent the council set

Ah that's bit harsh. Not comparable to the Cash case at all

4 kids post getting on the housing list is poor planning. What did they expect?

I hate when people run to the media on things like this, and the media bend over and spew out a sob story

ThunbergsAreGo · 30-12-2019 10:00am

Yurt! wrote: »

You missed the part of the article where it's noted that the father is a taxpaying worker.

Rant rant rant, Margret Cash, MY TAXES.

You were subsidised, deal with it.

Can you explain what the family want?

They are in essence as secure as many renters up and down the country, with more bedrooms already then they can afford than if they were privately renting.

What do they want? Why are they do be treated better than private renters?

Sweet.Science · 30-12-2019 10:05am

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Can you explain what the family want?

They are in essence as secure as many renters up and down the country, with more bedrooms already then they can afford than if they were privately renting.

What do they want? Why are they do be treated better than private renters?

Yes

They want a 5 bed house with a side entrance that they dont have to pay rent on.

Markcheese · 30-12-2019 11:11am

Is there anyone on here who thinks there isn't a serious problem with housing ..? (For years now )
Does every talk about housing have to come down to a they don't deserve it ...
Housing is too expensive to build ,and it's pretty much too expensive to rent now ..
People still need houses to live in ,before the state provided the housing and rent security , keeping the rents lower.
Now the state is paying ,but very little rent security ,and the rates are going through the roof ... And we're short of houses.

ThunbergsAreGo · 30-12-2019 11:24am

Markcheese wrote: »

Is there anyone on here who thinks there isn't a serious problem with housing ..? (For years now )
Does every talk about housing have to come down to a they don't deserve it ...
Housing is too expensive to build ,and it's pretty much too expensive to rent now ..
People still need houses to live in ,before the state provided the housing and rent security , keeping the rents lower.
Now the state is paying ,but very little rent security ,and the rates are going through the roof ... And we're short of houses.

I think the problem is making housing affordable, as opposed to more social.

They need to utilise social stock alot better

Thelonious Monk · 30-12-2019 11:35am

Millicently wrote: »

The surname is the giveaway. I'm guessing it's exactly like the Cash case where no rent was paid and the only way to get rid of them was to sell the house. There have been a few houses where I live where the only way landlords were able to get rid of their nightmare tenants was to just sell up. The father of the kids is described as a Courier, that's fairly vague, it doesn't say how often he works or what his income is. 175 euro per fortnight in rent is nothing. With 6 kids and the bulk of their rent paid for them they're coining in more than a working couple with 2 kids who are renting privately or paying a mortgage.

You have a certain manner of PlaneSpeeking when you post about Cash and Climate Change etc, it's almost familiar...

Jane98 · 30-12-2019 8:11pm

Anyone read this article:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/record-spend-of-120m-on-direct-provision-in-2019-38808625.html

The state expects to spend €120million in 2020 on the direct provision system. It mentions that there are approximately 6000 people in the direct provision system this Christmas. That works out at €20k per person. Unbelievabley bad value for money imo.

30-12-2019 8:16pm

Jane98 wrote: »

Anyone read this article:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/record-spend-of-120m-on-direct-provision-in-2019-38808625.html

The state expects to spend €120million in 2020 on the direct provision system. It mentions that there are approximately 6000 people in the direct provision system this Christmas. That works out at €20k per person. Unbelievabley bad value for money imo.

Direct provision has nothing to do with homelessness.

Jane98 · 30-12-2019 8:19pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Direct provision has nothing to do with homelessness.

Those in direct provision need housing and the title of the thread is about housing and not homelessness.

30-12-2019 8:22pm

Jane98 wrote: »

Those in direct provision need housing and the title of the thread is about housing and not homelessness.

They have to be granted right to stay before housing becomes an issue. Though, the process could be speeded up somewhat. Just because they are given the right to stay doesn’t mean that the state has to house them.

enricoh · 30-12-2019 8:32pm

Jane98 wrote: »

Anyone read this article:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/record-spend-of-120m-on-direct-provision-in-2019-38808625.html

The state expects to spend €120million in 2020 on the direct provision system. It mentions that there are approximately 6000 people in the direct provision system this Christmas. That works out at €20k per person. Unbelievabley bad value for money imo.

One in 6 are given permission to stay in Ireland- does this include the spoofers given leave to remain anyone know? They can repatriate their families once given the nod.god only knows the total cost of housing, welfare, repatriation etc once the stint in direct provision ends

enricoh · 30-12-2019 8:43pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Direct provision has nothing to do with homelessness.

Really? So when their stint in direct provision ends and they are housed by the state where do they end up? In accommodation the government outbid the competition ie ordinary workers for, thus reduucing housing stock. or are they housed in some parallel universe I haven't heard of ?!

30-12-2019 8:45pm

enricoh wrote: »

Really? So when their stint in direct provision ends and they are housed by the state where do they end up? In accommodation the government outbid the competition is ordinary workers for, thus reduucing housing stock. or are they housed in some parallel universe I haven't heard of ?!

Hopefully, they end up in steady jobs and can afford to pay for their own needs. Same as the vast majority of us.

Eric Cartman · 30-12-2019 8:52pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Hopefully, they end up in steady jobs and can afford to pay for their own needs. Same as the vast majority of us.

if even 10% ended up that way in my lifetime id be shocked.

NovemberWren · 30-12-2019 10:24pm

that building at 21 Aungier Street, surely it could not really include 71 apartments.
(but imo it is good that the Council would consider handing it over), though, to who?

The Peter McVerry Trust, prob., but should this be an 'interim' arrangement and a defined timespan.

The people that built these buildings in the first place, did so with clarity and alacrity; and so, they are lovely buildings; and, thus, have stood the test of time. The Dublin Historic society are perfectly right to be worried. These are Dublin.

71 apartments may be far too many; - compromise the windows (and even Napoleon had laws about windows), and voila, the building outlook (and fabric) is damaged.

But, in Dublin, the main begrudgery, about inner city housing, is: Ceilings. These are probably 10ft., (now most are 8ft.).

Do the very poor 'deserve' these.... with one strong proviso; when in situ they themselves assess and pay maintenance. ?

Patrick2010 · 31-12-2019 11:50am

enricoh wrote: »

Really? So when their stint in direct provision ends and they are housed by the state where do they end up? In accommodation the government outbid the competition ie ordinary workers for, thus reduucing housing stock. or are they housed in some parallel universe I haven't heard of ?!

They’ll go into private accommodation rented by the state, where else would they go?, everyone knows this.
The idea that there is no connection between housing asylum seekers/economic migrants and the supply of houses available to locals is ridiculous.
50 more Syrians just arrived yesterday to be housed here, are they all just going to find jobs and house themselves?
The only unsafe are in Libya is Idlib, surely they could find a safe area somewhere else in Libya

Chinasea · 31-12-2019 2:11pm

Wow, let's blame asylum seekers ahh?

How's about the young Spanish cleaner (in my work) with a zero hours contract, shares a room with a complete stranger in a house of 13 people. And the Romanian girl who mobs up puke and **** daily in the hospital, who is living in a house with 9 others and could not afford the fare to fly home for Christmas, no holiday pay either. How's about instead of trying to blame foreigners, we remember who is actually doing what in this country and CONTRIBUTING. Who speaks up for them.

Mr. teddywinkles · 31-12-2019 3:30pm

Chinasea wrote: »

Wow, let's blame asylum seekers ahh?

How's about the young Spanish cleaner (in my work) with a zero hours contract, shares a room with a complete stranger in a house of 13 people. And the Romanian girl who mobs up puke and **** daily in the hospital, who is living in a house with 9 others and could not afford the fare to fly home for Christmas, no holiday pay either. How's about instead of trying to blame foreigners, we remember who is actually doing what in this country and CONTRIBUTING. Who speaks up for them.

Why come here if life is ****e here?

Chinasea · 31-12-2019 3:32pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Why come here if life is ****e here?

So exploiting the tax paying, no voice foreign low waged is ok. Cosy along.

31-12-2019 7:30pm

Chinasea wrote: »

Wow, let's blame asylum seekers ahh?

How's about the young Spanish cleaner (in my work) with a zero hours contract, shares a room with a complete stranger in a house of 13 people. And the Romanian girl who mobs up puke and **** daily in the hospital, who is living in a house with 9 others and could not afford the fare to fly home for Christmas, no holiday pay either. How's about instead of trying to blame foreigners, we remember who is actually doing what in this country and CONTRIBUTING. Who speaks up for them.

I doubt that the Spanish cleaner is an asylum seeker. And I’m sure that the Unions look after the hospital workers.

padd b1975 · 31-12-2019 7:37pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

if even 10% ended up that way in my lifetime id be shocked.

All those doctors and highly qualified engineers will be fine.

Doc07 · 31-12-2019 7:40pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I doubt that the Spanish cleaner is an asylum seeker. And I’m sure that the Unions look after the hospital workers.

Not as simple as that I’m afraid. Contract cleaning companies have some public body contracts out of the union reach.

NovemberWren · 31-12-2019 8:46pm

Patrick2010 wrote: »

They’ll go into private accommodation rented by the state, where else would they go?, everyone knows this.
The idea that there is no connection between housing asylum seekers/economic migrants and the supply of houses available to locals is ridiculous.
50 more Syrians just arrived yesterday to be housed here, are they all just going to find jobs and house themselves?
The only unsafe are in Libya is Idlib, surely they could find a safe area somewhere else in Libya

You say, 'private accommodation rented by the state'; - so really these unfortunate people are going to be used like cattle by this (money insane) Irish State (FG,FF,Lab).to pay the mortgages of the Private Investors' Profit, extra houses.
i.e. the State ensuring the buying of extra houses for their Millionaire pals.

btw at the very first post (about 21 Aungier St.);- who owns the Lease that Dublin Corporation are paying E200k per year to?

And I would bet Mehaill Martin already has his airline ticket over to Christine Lagarde to drown over more billions to here.

Eric Cartman · 01-01-2020 12:27pm

padd b1975 wrote: »

All those doctors and highly qualified engineers will be fine.

Impressive how theyre all so qualified when only 12% emwent to higher education before getting here

NovemberWren · 01-01-2020 4:20pm

padd b1975 wrote: »

All those doctors and highly qualified engineers will be fine.

frightening though,- when the, (Contract based?) foreign doctors and Consultants, take their que from the in-situ HSE F.F. consultants, when dealing with non-f.f. voters.

and how even Contract doctors even assimilate the nod from HSE (s.f.?/f.f.?/pbp?) Local, unionised cleaners.

But these contract Professionals in the HSE, may pay high rents to the Housing Investors who are the pals of the Government. And maybe they reckon they will only be in this country for c. 10 years or so.

Sweet.Science · 02-01-2020 8:20am

padd b1975 wrote: »

All those doctors and highly qualified engineers will be fine.

Look at them out celebrating their recent qualifications . Good on them

https://m.facebook.com/onlyindublin/videos/1267970866725997/?refsrc=https%3A%2F%2Fm.facebook.com%2Fonlyindublin%2Fvideos%2F1267970866725997%2F&_rdr

Wanderer78 · 02-01-2020 8:24am

Sweet.Science wrote:

Look at them out celebrating their recent qualifications . Good on them

Tis a very competitive market out there, their aggression might help them, they're just getting practice in!

pjohnson · 02-01-2020 9:07am

Chinasea wrote: »

How's about instead of trying to blame foreigners, we remember who is actually doing what in this country and CONTRIBUTING.

Hell no. This is Current Affairs. You can blame those foreigners if you even stub your toe!

Annasopra · 02-01-2020 10:35am

Deleted User wrote: »

I doubt that the Spanish cleaner is an asylum seeker. And I’m sure that the Unions look after the hospital workers.

They are probably contractors without unions. Not really the point though.

Annasopra · 02-01-2020 10:36am

pjohnson wrote: »

Hell no. This is Current Affairs. You can blame those foreigners if you even stub your toe!

Or for just having a toe.

TwoMonthsOff · 02-01-2020 10:40am

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Look at them out celebrating their recent qualifications . Good on them

https://m.facebook.com/onlyindublin/videos/1267970866725997/?refsrc=https%3A%2F%2Fm.facebook.com%2Fonlyindublin%2Fvideos%2F1267970866725997%2F&_rdr

Nigs gonna nig

Mod

Banned.

Auguste Comte · 02-01-2020 10:50am

TwoMonthsOff wrote: »

Nigs gonna nig

You stay classy.

is_that_so · 20-01-2020 8:13am

Well we've made another undesirable "top" list, that of unaffordable housing. The piece is about NZ but links to the report. We're about 5th in the list.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/20/all-sectors-of-new-zealand-housing-market-severely-unaffordable-survey

Singapore is mentioned as a model for affordable housing and their solution is largely public and views housing differently. Given their approach that would leave our housing fully under the control of an LA set-up, not an appealing thought.

http://theconversation.com/a-century-of-public-housing-lessons-from-singapore-where-housing-is-a-social-not-financial-asset-121141

Take Singapore, for example. Singapore had its own “Brexit” in 1965 when it separated from Malaysia. In 1960 the Singapore Housing and Development Board (HDB) was formed to provide affordable and high-quality housing for residents of this tiny city-state nation. Today, more than 80% of Singapore’s 5.4m residents live in housing provided by the development board.

Wanderer78 · 20-01-2020 8:19am

is_that_so wrote:

Singapore is mentioned as a model for affordable housing and their solution is largely public and views housing differently. Given their approach that would leave our housing fully under the control of an LA set-up, not an appealing thought.

Yea that Singapore model is truly dreadful, the thoughts of people being able to get access to some sort of accommodation, what a terrible idea

machaseh · 20-01-2020 8:35am

The problem in ireland is that private parties are too easily able to stop development of not only housing, but also public transportation and bike infrastructure.

You can plan a great metro line, but if Karen complains that the metro will make too much noise, it won't be built. You can plan a beautiful appartment block with affordable housing, but if Karen complains that it blocks the view from her single story cottage, it's not going to be built. You can plan great bike roads throughout all of dublin, but if Karen doesn't want the nice trees to be cut down it's not going to be built. Etc.

The procedures for cpos, railway orders etc. need to be legally changed so that the power of private parties can never outweigh the importance for the public as a whole.

This will not only solve Dublin's housing crisis, but also the mess that is public transportation in dublin.

Idbatterim · 20-01-2020 9:07am

machaseh wrote: »

The problem in ireland is that private parties are too easily able to stop development of not only housing, but also public transportation and bike infrastructure.

You can plan a great metro line, but if Karen complains that the metro will make too much noise, it won't be built. You can plan a beautiful appartment block with affordable housing, but if Karen complains that it blocks the view from her single story cottage, it's not going to be built. You can plan great bike roads throughout all of dublin, but if Karen doesn't want the nice trees to be cut down it's not going to be built. Etc.

The procedures for cpos, railway orders etc. need to be legally changed so that the power of private parties can never outweigh the importance for the public as a whole.

This will not only solve Dublin's housing crisis, but also the mess that is public transportation in dublin.

Agree with bits of this. But the planners make the decisions, not Karen. And Karen doesn’t get to elect abp board members etc ...

Stark · 20-01-2020 9:51am

It's generally death by a thousand Karens though. Especially when they start getting TDs and councillors involved and you have elected represents spouting bull**** on their Twitter feeds about how BusConnects is going to destroy all the trees etc. (case in point https://twitter.com/deirdreconroyie?lang=en . Funnily enough, they changed the designs to save the trees and suddenly it was no longer about the trees). Or the likes of Clare Daly speaking out both sides of her mouth, decrying the incumbent's record on housing provision and the homeless while at the same time being one of the most prolific objectors to planning applications for housing.

Eric Cartman · 20-01-2020 9:56am

Stark wrote: »

It's generally death by a thousand Karens though. Especially when they start getting TDs and councillors involved and you have elected represents spouting bull**** on their Twitter feeds about how BusConnects is going to destroy all the trees etc. (case in point https://twitter.com/deirdreconroyie?lang=en . Funnily enough, they changed the designs to save the trees and suddenly it was no longer about the trees). Or the likes of Clare Daly speaking out both sides of her mouth, decrying the incumbent's record on housing provision and the homeless while at the same time being one of the most prolific objectors to planning applications for housing.

Its an industry, people like clare daly will keep rabbling till the 3 bed semis with a back garden show up, which protip, they wont show up so she can keep claiming to be fighting for 4eva homes when even the dogs in the street know she wont get what she claims to want

The real problem with Housing in Ireland

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