This is a thread about the 2020 Six Nations, formerly the Five Nations

ionadnapokot · 17-12-2019 11:57pm #1

Forget RWC, Champions Cup & Christmas. Just over 6 wks until the 6 Nations - 1st Feb.

I don’t think there has ever been a 6N with such an amount of change in personnel from the previous championship.
Some real stalwarts have also departed the scene: Parisse, Zanni, Best, Kearney, O'Brien, Hartley, Gatland, Ghiraldini, Guirado, Fofana, Brunel & I think Picamoles (load of Hookers & 8’s in that group)
Joe and O’Shea gone. Scotland, England and then Ireland probably have the least amount of change following the RWC.

England: Captain: Farrell.
Head Coach: Jones. Forwards: Borthwick. Attack: Simon Amor. Defence: Mitchell.
Ireland: Captain: TBC. 4 Options: POM,Ryan,CJ & Sexton(would prefer him to just play)
Head Coach: Farrell. Forwards: Fogarty. Attack: Catt. Defence: Easterby. H2O: Murphy. Manager: ?
Italy: Captain: TBC.
Head Coach: Franco Smith. Forwards: De Carli. Defence: Goosen. Fitness: Atkinson/Sanguin
Scotland: Captain: McInally?
Head Coach: Townsend. Forwards: Wilson. Attack: ?. Defence: Taylor. Skills: Blair
Wales: Captain: Jones.
Head Coach: Pivac. Forwards: Humphreys. Attack: Jones. Defence: Hayward/Warburton
France: Captain: TBC.
Head Coach: Galthie. Forwards:?Scrum: William Servat & Karim Ghezal. Attack: Labit. Defence: Prick with clipboard looking furious all of the time. Manager: Ibanez

Even though England start with two away games & might feel that they have little to prove, its hard not to see them winning it.
Ireland have a nice start with two home games v Scot & Wales. Win those “Momentum” and then on to Twickenham and finishing in Paris in the final match.
“Which France will turn up?”
I'll go with France to win it & Dupont player of the championship.

Preferred Ireland XXIII
Larmour; Conway, Ringrose, Aki, Stockdale; Carbery, Cooney;
Healy, Kelleher, Porter; Henderson, Ryan(vc); POM(C), VdF, Dorris.

Reps: Scannell, Kilcoyne, Furlong, Toner, CJ, Murray, Sexton (if played for Leinster), Addison.
https://www.the42.ie/rob-kearney-andy-farrell-ireland-squad-4935755-Dec2019/

ROUND ONE
1/2 February:
Wales vs Italy – Saturday 2:15pm
Ireland vs Scotland – Saturday 4:45pm Referee: Raynal
France vs England – Sunday 3pm

ROUND TWO
8/9 February:
Ireland vs Wales – Saturday 2:15pm Referee: Romain Poite
Scotland vs England – Saturday 4:45pm
France vs Italy – Sunday 3pm

ROUND THREE
22/23 February:
Italy vs Scotland – Saturday 2:15pm
Wales vs France – Saturday 4:45pm
England vs Ireland – Sunday 3pm Referee: Jaco Peyper

ROUND FOUR
7/8 March:
Ireland vs Italy – Saturday 2:15pm Referee: Nic Berry
England vs Wales – Saturday 4:45pm
Scotland vs France – Sunday 3pm

ROUND FIVE
14 March:
Wales vs Scotland – Saturday 2:15pm
Italy vs England – Saturday 4:45pm
France vs Ireland – Saturday 8pm. Referee: Barnes
https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/fixtures/
https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/2019/12/04/refereeing-appointments-for-2020-guinness-six-nations-announced/

bilston · 18-12-2019 1:07am

France might be a good shout. They have some fantastic young talent emerging, but whether they can get any sort of consistency is highly questionable. Still, if they beat England at home in the first game then you'd expect them to beat Italy and if they go to Wales unbeaten and with their tails up then it may just be their year.

18-12-2019 8:46am

Looking forward to the Championship this year. England likely the team to beat on the basis of form out of the World Cup.

That opening fixture in Paris should be a cracker and a loss for England would change expectations a lot.

Scotland have a terrible run. Away to us and then England visit. They had a worse world cup than us and the Scottish teams are struggling against provincial 'A' sides. Have said it before - Townsend won't survive the tournament.

I don't rate Pivac in the same bracket as Gatland and think this will be a difficult tournament for the Welsh.

If England lose in round 1 then I think Ireland will win the championship with the game in Twickenham deciding whether it's with a slam or not.

If England win in round 1 then I think they'll get the slam.

Please note, for the sake of clarity this post did not mention or in anyway reference Peter O'Mahony nor anyone with the likeness (intentional or otherwise) of Peter O'Mahony.

jr86 · 18-12-2019 12:52pm

Interestingly the 3rd year on the trot where a win in the opening round in Paris could be the catalyst for a slam win

I'd expect England to just about do enough in Paris (it won't be easy though) and follow Wales and Ireland's lead. I actually don't expect them to be overly troubled from then onwards

A France win first up though ( could well happen) and I could well see them winning it out

thomond2006 · 18-12-2019 12:54pm

Can someone fix the apostrophe in the thread title.
Please.

ionadnapokot · 18-12-2019 2:05pm

No
The Farrells own it

Eats, Shoots & Leaves

ionadnapokot · 19-12-2019 9:54pm

Laidlaw gone

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/dec/19/greig-laidlaw-former-scotland-captain-retires-international-rugby-union

Didn’t realise Barclay – another former captain and stalwart and Seymour are also gone.

thomond2006 · 27-12-2019 7:24pm

Laidlaw probably going before he was going to be pushed out anyway. He's 34 and playing abroad. Barclay likewise is 33. Time to move on.

ionadnapokot · 08-01-2020 11:17pm

All change for France
19 uncapped players in squad as veterans miss out.
Clearly all about 2023 for France.
Surprised they dumped Slimani though.

Ollivon new Captain. Class player.

https://www.the42.ie/france-name-19-uncapped-players-in-six-nations-squad-4958485-Jan2020/

Could still see them winning it this year.

thomond2006 · 08-01-2020 11:51pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Can someone fix the apostrophe in the thread title.
Please.

Please. I'm shaking here.

Kevski · 09-01-2020 12:01am

thomond2006 wrote: »

Please. I'm shaking here.

Maybe the apostrophe is correct and OP forgot to add the next word :pac:

jacothelad · 09-01-2020 12:14am

thomond2006 wrote: »

Can someone fix the apostrophe in the thread title.
Please.

Insert the word team mentally.:D

BonnieSituation · 09-01-2020 12:17am

I just saw we have Peyper reffing us at Twickenham. Ffs.

molloyjh · 09-01-2020 12:28am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I just saw we have Peyper reffing us at Twickenham. Ffs.

Owen Farrell will be delighted.

prawnsambo · 09-01-2020 7:39am

thomond2006 wrote: »

Please. I'm shaking here.

Yeah, I can't even read the thread properly. Looking for someone to say they'll fix it instead of reading the posts. I think we should just let the thread die.

aloooof · 09-01-2020 10:28am

ionadnapokot wrote: »

All change for France
19 uncapped players in squad as veterans miss out.
Clearly all about 2023 for France.
Surprised they dumped Slimani though.

Ollivon new Captain. Class player.

https://www.the42.ie/france-name-19-uncapped-players-in-six-nations-squad-4958485-Jan2020/

Could still see them winning it this year.

Interesting, and very young, squad.

World U20 champions Cameron Woki, Louis Carbonel, Jean-Baptiste Gros, Killian Geraci, Arthur Vincent and Demba Bamba are among the uncapped faces in the new-look set-up.

Veterans such as Maxime Medard, Yoann Huget, Wenceslas Lauret and Rabah Slimani, who are all older than 30, miss out.

With an average age of 24, the sole player in the squad over 30 years of age is Racing’s South African-born forward Bernard Le Roux.

Pretty sure Demba Bamba has been capped before? But only one player over 30 is surprising. Is Iturria injured?

lawrencesummers · 09-01-2020 10:32am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I just saw we have Peyper reffing us at Twickenham. Ffs.

So no offsides and cheap shots will be the order of the day, only for him to decide the game by mistaking a Yellow elephant for a forward pass.

molloyjh · 09-01-2020 11:35am

My 23 for Scotland, fully realising that it wont be the team selected, would be:

Healy Scannell Porter
Toner Ryan
Stander Doris VDF

Cooney Sexton
Henshaw Ringrose
Stockdale Larmour Conway

Kelleher, Kilcoyne, Furlong, Henderson, POM, McGrath, Byrne, Addison

We simply don't know how guys like Doris or Cooney would fit in with what the team try to do or even gel with the guys around them so this team may not even work. Theres also a bit of a lack of leadership there so guys like Ryan, Stander, Sexton and Ringrose would really need to step up. The leadership thing could be a reason to look at 9 and possibly bring Murray in and move Cooney to the bench.

All that said, I think certain things need to be addressed. Our back row most of all. I'm not getting into players form or anything like that. But our back row simply didnt work last year. We missed a truly dynamic carrier and/or someone to at least take some of the onus off Stander. Addressing that was a main reason behind the above. I'd rather we had Conan, but Doris is the next best option.

The above also maintains a good level of continuity while also setting a tone re rewarding younger guys early. I cant see a revolution in how we play. I dont think it's possible in a matter of weeks, which is all they'll have together. It'll be more evolution than revolution IMO. So that continuity will be very important. We're also looking at bringing real impact off the bench too with the above.

aloooof · 09-01-2020 11:45am

molloyjh wrote: »

My 23 for Scotland, fully realising that it wont be the team selected, would be:

Healy Scannell Porter
Toner Ryan
Stander Doris VDF

Cooney Sexton
Henshaw Ringrose
Stockdale Larmour Conway

Kelleher, Kilcoyne, Furlong, Henderson, POM, McGrath, Byrne, Addison

We simply don't know how guys like Doris or Cooney would fit in with what the team try to do or even gel with the guys around them so as it team it may not even work. Theres also a bit of a lack of leadership there so guys like Ryan, Stander, Sexton and Ringrose would really need to step up. The leadership thing could be a reason to look at 9 and possibly bring Murray in and move Cooney to the bench.

All that said, I think certain things need to be addressed. Our back row most of all. I'm not getting into players form or anything like that. But our back row simply didnt work last year. We missed a truly dynamic carrier and/or someone to at least take some of the onus off Stander. Addressing that was a main reason behind the above. I'd rather we had Conan, but Doris is the next best option.

The above also maintains a good level of continuity while also setting a tone re rewarding younger guys early. I cant see a revolution in how we play. I dont think it's possible in a matter of weeks, which is all they'll have together. It'll be more evolution than revolution IMO. So that continuity will be very important. We're also looking at bringing real impact off the bench too with the above.

I don't see Murray falling outside of the 23, tbh.

I think I'd go for Kelleher ahead of Scannell and a back row of Ruddock, Stander and VdF; I think there's something to be said for having Stander at 8 as a help to Cooney at scrumtime.

I really like the look of a Stockdale, Larmour and Conway back 3 tho.

Jump_In_Jack · 09-01-2020 11:47am

molloyjh wrote: »

My 23 for Scotland, fully realising that it wont be the team selected, would be:

Healy Scannell Porter
Toner Ryan
Stander Doris VDF

Cooney Sexton
Henshaw Ringrose
Stockdale Larmour Conway

Kelleher, Kilcoyne, Furlong, Henderson, POM, McGrath, Byrne, Addison

We simply don't know how guys like Doris or Cooney would fit in with what the team try to do or even gel with the guys around them so this team may not even work. Theres also a bit of a lack of leadership there so guys like Ryan, Stander, Sexton and Ringrose would really need to step up. The leadership thing could be a reason to look at 9 and possibly bring Murray in and move Cooney to the bench.

All that said, I think certain things need to be addressed. Our back row most of all. I'm not getting into players form or anything like that. But our back row simply didnt work last year. We missed a truly dynamic carrier and/or someone to at least take some of the onus off Stander. Addressing that was a main reason behind the above. I'd rather we had Conan, but Doris is the next best option.

The above also maintains a good level of continuity while also setting a tone re rewarding younger guys early. I cant see a revolution in how we play. I dont think it's possible in a matter of weeks, which is all they'll have together. It'll be more evolution than revolution IMO. So that continuity will be very important. We're also looking at bringing real impact off the bench too with the above.

O'Mahony isn't the guy to bring impact off the bench, I'd have Ruddock.

Jump_In_Jack · 09-01-2020 11:56am

aloooof wrote: »

I don't see Murray falling outside of the 23, tbh.

I think I'd go for Kelleher ahead of Scannell and a back row of Ruddock, Stander and VdF; I think there's something to be said for having Stander at 8 as a help to Cooney at scrumtime.

I really like the look of a Stockdale, Larmour and Conway back 3 tho.

Kelleher is injured (it's reported he may be back for match against Benetton on the 18th of January) so can't participate in training and will have no form going into the 6 nations.

I think Stander or Ruddock at 6 (and the other on the bench), with Doris or Deegan starting at 8, Cooney won't need Stander at 8, those two are brilliant 8's.

I'd like to see Baloucoune on the right wing if his knee isn't too bad after the slight knock it took against Munster (Ulster haven't reported any issue in their latest injury update), and Conway is currently injured (neck) at the moment withdrawn from training with no estimation yet of how long he'll be out.

09-01-2020 11:57am

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Kelleher is injured so can't participate in training and will have no form going into the 6 nations.

He'll be available for Treviso next weekend and will be able to fully participate in the 6N training camps.

If Farrell goes and picks the RWC team/team that failed its way through 2019 then he's the wrong man for the job.

Jump_In_Jack · 09-01-2020 12:13pm

Everly Clumsy Troop wrote: »

He'll be available for Treviso next weekend and will be able to fully participate in the 6N training camps.

If Farrell goes and picks the RWC team/team that failed its way through 2019 then he's the wrong man for the job.

Scannell, Herring and Heffernan were in the recent "Stocktake" so I'd think it's more likely that one of those 3 if they are playing regularly will be ahead of Kelleher.
His injury has prevented him from building up any form, not playing for 6 weeks and then playing one match just as the squad will be getting together two weeks before the first 6 nations match has made it much more difficult to impress Farrell.
If he does get into the 15 or even the 23 for the first match, he will be relying on past form to make his case, and being relatively new to senior rugby at this level I can't see Farrell taking any chances with him.
If he does get selected it would be a huge testament to the quality he showed before Christmas.

PTH2009 · 09-01-2020 5:17pm

Feel this is going to be a very odd Championship

Very transitional for all teams with the exception of England

Not much hype around for it compared to other years

Be nice for Ireland to win it out but cant see it. 2x home wins and 1 win away would be a great campaign

Think England to win without the grand slam and triple crown

Podge_irl · 09-01-2020 5:22pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

Be nice for Ireland to win it out but cant see it. 2x home wins and 1 win away would be a great campaign

Losing at home to Scotland or Wales would not be a "great" campaign.

Coz · 09-01-2020 8:10pm

How many Saracens players will be ruled out because they've moved abroad due to the shakeup?

Kruis is off to Japan.

Squidgy Black · 09-01-2020 8:21pm

Coz wrote: »

How many Saracens players will be ruled out because they've moved abroad due to the shakeup?

Kruis is off to Japan.

None I'd imagine. Kruis is reportedly off to Japan, nothing confirmed. Other than that there's no reports of national team players other than Wigglesworth (who probably shouldn't be in the side anyways) leaving.

jr86 · 09-01-2020 10:01pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

None I'd imagine. Kruis is reportedly off to Japan, nothing confirmed. Other than that there's no reports of national team players other than Wigglesworth (who probably shouldn't be in the side anyways) leaving.

Yep and Kruis isn't first choice anymore anyway. Lawes had a very good world cup. Launchbury is obviously a very able deputy too

Wigglesworth hasn't been capped by England in a long time now I don't think. I'm not sure he's even played much since around 2015 when he went to the world cup

Bazzo · 13-01-2020 5:55pm

What sites do people use for fantasy for the 6 nations? Have done the Irish times one for years now but it's a bit ****e to be honest

13-01-2020 7:08pm

Bazzo wrote: »

What sites do people use for fantasy for the 6 nations?

I like rugbyhunks but frontrowfurries.net gets very busy this time of year.

ionadnapokot · 14-01-2020 2:19pm

England officially announce new coaches.
Matt Proudfoot: Forwards coach
Simon Amor: Backs coach

And Eddie Jones is apparently still the Skills Coach
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jan/13/england-appoint-simon-amor-matt-proudfoot-coaches-rugby-union

My fav fact about Proudfoot:
Proudfoot was so big that Melrose reportedly had to commission their kit-suppliers to produce a specially made, super-sized strip to encase his 50-inch chest and 48-inch backside.
https://www.theoffsideline.com/matt-proudfoot-scotland/

His last cap was v Ireland. 2003 RWC warm-up game where Murphy broke his leg

ionadnapokot · 15-01-2020 12:54pm

18-year-old winger Louis Rees-Zammit is one of five uncapped players in Wayne Pivac’s Wales Squad
& Rhys Webb is back
https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/2020/01/15/rees-zammit-called-up-by-pivac-as-wales-plot-title-defence/

Stuart Hogg new Scot captain
There are six uncapped players included - four in the forwards and two in the backs
https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/2020/01/15/hogg-captains-scotland-squad-including-six-uncapped-players/

Hogg is still only 27!

Squidgy Black · 15-01-2020 1:02pm

Out of the 5 uncapped players for Wales, 4 are playing in England. I'd imagine they'll be prime targets for the regions the next time their contract's are up

sydthebeat · 15-01-2020 1:14pm

ionadnapokot wrote: »

18-year-old winger Louis Rees-Zammit is one of five uncapped players in Wayne Pivac’s Wales Squad
& Rhys Webb is back
https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/2020/01/15/rees-zammit-called-up-by-pivac-as-wales-plot-title-defence/
!

no Taine Basham ????

hes been ripping up trees in the pro14 and one of the stars of dragons resurgence this year.
probably suffers from the "not big enough for test rugby" mentality.

Bazzo · 15-01-2020 1:22pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

no Taine Basham ????

hes been ripping up trees in the pro14 and one of the stars of dragons resurgence this year.
probably suffers from the "not big enough for test rugby" mentality.

Ludicrous, has been playing at a very high level for 2 years now... He's 20!!!

ionadnapokot · 15-01-2020 1:27pm

& i believe Eddie Jones was sniffing around Rees-Zammit!

Will he be the next George North or Tom Prydie?

North reached 50 caps at 22!!

ionadnapokot · 15-01-2020 1:51pm

Franco Smith names three uncapped players in Italy’s 35-man squad
https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/2020/01/13/recalls-and-new-faces-in-italy-squad/

No Mention of new captain.
And Parisse is still planning a retirement party
https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/51107836

Dave_The_Sheep · 15-01-2020 2:32pm

Can't say I'd be wild about Parisse's plans if I was the Italy coach. "I'm not available ... except for the one game I want to play".

Clegg · 15-01-2020 2:38pm

Stuart Hogg has been appointed as Scotland's new captain. Takes over from Stuart McInally.

Squidgy Black · 15-01-2020 2:38pm

That Parisse situation is mental. Not included in the squad, but is expecting to swan in for the second last or last game.

The Scotland game is probably the only game they'll be close to winning, if I was the Italian coach I'd be trying to keep him as far away from the squad as possible in the lead up for it.

The England game may be a complete blow away depending on how the two go so fair enough if he wants to get a token cap for that.

aloooof · 15-01-2020 2:47pm

I'd have a certain amount of sympathy for Parisse, given the way he was robbed of his farewell vs NZ at the RWC due to Hagibis.

AdamD · 15-01-2020 2:50pm

A big farewell isn't exactly a neccesity, especially if you plan it yourself.

corny · 16-01-2020 1:31pm

Shouldn't be any room for that sort of sentimentality in professional sport.

Great player but couldn't shake the feeling the last couple of years he was in the way of the younger players establishing their own voice within the group.

Squidgy Black · 19-01-2020 2:29pm

Billy Vunipola broken forearm again. Broken both over the last couple of years. Massive blow for England.

stephen_n · 19-01-2020 11:35pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Billy Vunipola broken forearm again. Broken both over the last couple of years. Massive blow for England.

England are a very different team without him, it’s a very big blow to their grand slam chances.

Dog Botherer · 20-01-2020 2:36am

Be interesting to see who they go with at 8. Both Hughes and Simmonds are in good form but out of favour. Dombrandt is a wild card choice for me, still very raw but hugely talented.

None of them are near the threat of Vunipola though. A backrow of Curry, Simmonds, and A.N. Other seems similarly unbalanced to the Ireland backrow of Stander, VDF, and POM that struggled during the World Cup.

Clegg · 20-01-2020 1:46pm

Eddie Jones has named his Six Nations squad. Dan Cole has been cut and Jack Nowell joins Billy Vunipola on the injured list.

Forwards
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 21 caps)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 19 caps)
Tom Dunn (Bath Rugby, uncapped)
Ben Earl (Saracens, uncapped)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 12 caps)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 14 caps)
Jamie George (Saracens, 45 caps)
Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors, 1 cap)
Maro Itoje (Saracens, 34 caps)
George Kruis (Saracens, 41 caps)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 62 caps)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 81 caps)
Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, 6 caps)
Joe Marler (Harlequins, 68 caps)
Alex Moon (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 31 caps)
Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, uncapped)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 15 caps)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 58 caps)
Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 18 caps)

Backs
Elliot Daly (Saracens, 39 caps)
Ollie Devoto (Exeter Chiefs, 1 cap)
Fraser Dingwall (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Owen Farrell (Saracens, 79 caps)
George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 65 caps)
George Furbank (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Willi Heinz (Gloucester Rugby, 9 caps)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 47 caps)
Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 52 caps)
Ollie Thorley (Gloucester Rugby, uncapped)
Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 40 caps)
Jacob Umaga (Wasps, uncapped)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 42 caps)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 95 caps)

Apprentice players
Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Josh Hodge (Newcastle Falcons, uncapped)

Bazzo · 20-01-2020 2:11pm

No Hughes, Simmonds OR Dombrandt who I thought would be the 3 possible replacements for Billy V

ionadnapokot · 20-01-2020 2:19pm

Umaga?
Any relation?

awec · 20-01-2020 2:21pm

Bazzo wrote: »

No Hughes, Simmonds OR Dombrandt who I thought would be the 3 possible replacements for Billy V

Hughes is no good. Way too soft.

ionadnapokot · 20-01-2020 2:24pm

Borthwick on the move at the end of 6N

After Proudfoot appointment no surprise.

https://www.the42.ie/steve-borthwick-england-leicester-4972246-Jan2020/

This is a thread about the 2020 Six Nations, formerly the Five Nations

2020 Six Nations Winner 206 votes

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