The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

kilns · 23-12-2019 09:45PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

Im afraid the argument that splitting Dublin helps every county doesn’t really stand up. It helps around max 15 counties.

At the same time the concern of Dublin posters about the weakest counties like Waterford and Leitrim is disingenuous. They couldn’t give a **** about any county but themselves and don’t want changes to the status quo because the status quo benefits them.

That’s the truth of the matter.

To be honest nobody really cares about any other county they care about their own county winning. But if anyone is honest the county system is flawed and unfair and if you want to create a level playing field some thing dramatic has to be done. This will never happen due to vested interests in each county and county loyalty

23-12-2019 10:22PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

Im afraid the argument that splitting Dublin helps every county doesn’t really stand up. It helps around max 15 counties.

At the same time the concern of Dublin posters about the weakest counties like Waterford and Leitrim is disingenuous. They couldn’t give a **** about any county but themselves and don’t want changes to the status quo because the status quo benefits them.

That’s the truth of the matter.

Spot on, you're dead right. Certain posters hiding behind the altruism of "for the good of the game" when, in actuality, they just want to give their own county a leg up.

The difference with the Dublin posters (well, me anyway) is we're saying that to highlight the rank hypocrisy being spouted. Splitting a county into separate teams will NEVER happen. It would sound the death knell for GAA in that county if you were to dissolve the team and establish a new one or more. But the neck of people saying it has to happen for inter County football to survive is galling. Especially when they would sh1t the bed if it was aimed at their own team.

Here's another suggestion Gaffer: instead of splitting why not combine with Cork and Wear a Jersey that's half red? How does that sound?

Spoiler alert: sounds like a bleeding nightmare

Dots1982 · 23-12-2019 10:45PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Splitting a county into separate teams will NEVER happen. It would sound the death knell for GAA in that county if you were to dissolve the team and establish a new one or more. But the neck of people saying it has to happen for inter County football to survive is galling. Especially when they would sh1t the bed if it was aimed at their own team.

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/attendance-kerry-tyrone-semi-dips-massively-2015-204967

If attendances like this become the norm for all ireland semis then you better believe the GAA will consider any proposals to boost revenue. The GAA lives off big days in Croke Park. It can barely survive without them never mind flourish.

23-12-2019 11:02PM

Correlation does not equal causation.

You're, presumably, pinning that on Dublin's dominance, despite the fact that the final and replay were sold out and averaged 75% of the TV audiences?

Why lay the blame at Dublin's feet? If you click into the twitter thread on that link you posted 99% of the replies are giving out about the cost of tickets.

Dots1982 · 23-12-2019 11:16PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Correlation does not equal causation.

You're, presumably, pinning that on Dublin's dominance, despite the fact that the final and replay were sold out and averaged 75% of the TV audiences?

Why lay the blame at Dublin's feet? If you click into the twitter thread on that link you posted 99% of the replies are giving out about the cost of tickets.

If my county had genuine hope of winning an all ireland the cost of tickets wouldn’t matter. Now that they don’t I don’t bother attending games at all. That’s the problem with the all ireland these days. There’s no hope of winning for everybody expect Dublin and maybe Kerry.

That isn’t likely to change much in the next 10 years by the looks of things. That’s a big problem that looks likely to get bigger.

23-12-2019 11:22PM

It might, if you were short on cash and had to decide on attending a) a semi vs Tyrone or b) a final vs the greatest team to ever play the game. You might be inclined to keep your powder dry if you felt there was a bigger day out in the pipeline m

dunnerc · 23-12-2019 11:27PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

If my county had genuine hope of winning an all ireland the cost of tickets wouldn’t matter. Now that they don’t I don’t bother attending games at all. That’s the problem with the all ireland these days. There’s no hope of winning for everybody expect Dublin and maybe Kerry.

That isn’t likely to change much in the next 10 years by the looks of things. That’s a big problem that looks likely to get bigger.

Ah come on !! Its always been that way 2/3 counties in 90% of the history of Gaelic football capable of winning an All Ireland in any given year :rolleyes:

Dots1982 · 23-12-2019 11:32PM

dunnerc wrote: »

Ah come on !! Its always been that way 2/3 counties in 90% of the history of Gaelic football capable of winning an All Ireland in any given year :rolleyes:

If you say so

tritium · 23-12-2019 11:38PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

Im afraid the argument that splitting Dublin helps every county doesn’t really stand up. It helps around max 15 counties.

At the same time the concern of Dublin posters about the weakest counties like Waterford and Leitrim is disingenuous. They couldn’t give a **** about any county but themselves and don’t want changes to the status quo because the status quo benefits them.

That’s the truth of the matter.

You’d be doing well to make an argument for 15 counties that would benefit from hobbling Dublin. Maybe 3 outside Leinster and 2-3 in Leinster looking for provincial honors but no further, at a push, the rest would still be well off the pace.

Bit rich to be claiming dublin posters are disingenuous though. So far in this thread it’s largely only the dublin posters who have expressed any willingness to give up funding to help the weaker counties get ahead. Mention their financial or other advantages to the anti dublin brigade and ask them to give some of them up and we just get a blanket denial of reality, even when the facts are on public record.

Because if you’re to be honest they also don’t give a ****e, to use your expression, about the weaker counties, or indeed about the “good of the game”, they just want the old status quo back

And that’s also the truth of the matter

Dots1982 · 23-12-2019 11:48PM

tritium wrote: »

You’d be doing well to make an argument for 15 counties that would benefit from hobbling Dublin. Maybe 3 outside Leinster and 2-3 in Leinster looking for provincial honors but no further, at a push, the rest would still be well off the pace.

Bit rich to be claiming dublin posters are disingenuous though. So far in this thread it’s largely only the dublin posters who have expressed any willingness to give up funding to help the weaker counties get ahead. Mention their financial or other advantages to the anti dublin brigade and ask them to give some of them up and we just get a blanket denial of reality, even when the facts are on public record.

Because if you’re to be honest they also don’t give a ****e, to use your expression, about the weaker counties, or indeed about the “good of the game”, they just want the old status quo back

And that’s also the truth of the matter

Indeed, this thread is exclusively populated by Salt of the earth decent Dubs who only want the best for the GAA and bitter jealous culchies.

dunnerc · 23-12-2019 11:56PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

Indeed, this thread is exclusively populated by Salt of the earth decent Dubs who only want the best for the GAA and bitter jealous culchies.

Cant believe there are bitter and jealous culchies on here

tritium · 24-12-2019 12:25AM

Dots1982 wrote: »

Indeed, this thread is exclusively populated by Salt of the earth decent Dubs who only want the best for the GAA and bitter jealous culchies.

Couldn’t be bitter and jealous culchies could it? After all it was the anti dublin brigade who keep telling us it’s all about the weaker counties. Keep telling us it’s about love of the game and everyone having a chance.

Until they’re asked how their own, typically historically prominent county, would make equivalent sacrifices to level the field for everyone. Until the imbalances their own counties enjoy are pointed out. And then the conversation suddenly gets all awkward.

Cause they’ve been talking self serving ****e up to that point.

Tell me dots, do you really think hobbling Dublin to save say Kildare from a hammering in Leinster would do a damn thing for the standard of Kildare football? Kildare who shipped 7 goals against Kerry not so many years ago? Dub supporters here have actively agreed that raising the standard in Leinster would be a good thing, are happy to redistribute funding to achieve that, and yet all a bunch of short sighted folks can see is, if they hobble dublin they might have a shot at the local bit of tin, and sure who cares if we’re embarrassed in the AI, or for one or two posters, eyes on getting back on top of the tree It’s a pathetic lack of ambition tbh, the tonya Harding school of sporting excellence

Dots1982 · 24-12-2019 12:36AM

tritium wrote: »

Couldn’t be bitter and jealous culchies could it? After all it was the anti dublin brigade who keep telling us it’s all about the weaker counties. Keep telling us it’s about love of the game and everyone having a chance.

Until they’re asked how their own, typically historically prominent county, would make equivalent sacrifices to level the field for everyone. Until the imbalances their own counties enjoy are pointed out. And then the conversation suddenly gets all awkward.

Cause they’ve been talking self serving ****e up to that point.

Tell me dots, do you really think hobbling Dublin to save say Kildare from a hammering in Leinster would do a damn thing for the standard of Kildare football? Kildare who shipped 7 goals against Kerry not so many years ago? Dub supporters here have actively agreed that raising the standard in Leinster would be a good thing, are happy to redistribute funding to achieve that, and yet all a bunch of short sighted folks can see is, if they hobble dublin they might have a shot at the local bit of tin, and sure who cares if we’re embarrassed in the AI, or for one or two posters, eyes on getting back on top of the tree It’s a pathetic lack of ambition tbh, the tonya Harding school of sporting excellence

Oh absolutely, kildare haven’t won Sam since 1928. No point dressing that up. It’s a disgraceful record.

I suppose it’s likely we’ll get better with the huge Population in the county now. But I don’t really care. When the demographics were reasonably fair across counties Kildare have been totally useless.

kilns · 24-12-2019 10:28AM

Pooling sponsorship funding received is a very tricky situation. Would AIG pay as much if they know their sponsorship money is not going into Dublin. I would be pretty sure Kerry Group wont be giving 700,000 a year to a national pool to help other counties. Then there is the case of counties being responsibly with the money they receive. As evident from some counties like Mayo and Galway they are unable to manage things competently themselves and would big sponsors be willing to give funds to counties who will waste it.

On the other hand, development funds will always look skewed due to the amount going to certain counties due to population profiles. Of course certain journalists with chips on their shoulders will highlight this without any back up and say look how much X and Y get without looking at why. I think the solution with regard to development funding is that the GAA needs to take all the power away from the county boards and provincial councils and centralise everything and manage everything from there so that every single county has the exact same coaching visions and development squads etc. This way a national plan can be carried out and the politics that infest some counties would be eliminated. County boards can then still have the power to arrange fixture lists etc sponsorship and revenue can be gathered locally but spending etc must be done and approved through the centralise channels

I think the club scene is healthy as it is community based but the county system needs a complete overhaul as evident with one Kerry supporter here who is very concerned with other counties having a shot at winning the All Ireland, we need to find a solution to give everyone a decent shot each year and I am sure every Dublin supporter would love to see real competition coming from various corners of the Island.

Bonniedog · 24-12-2019 10:38AM

Dots1982 wrote: »

Oh absolutely, kildare haven’t won Sam since 1928. No point dressing that up. It’s a disgraceful record.

I suppose it’s likely we’ll get better with the huge Population in the county now. But I don’t really care. When the demographics were reasonably fair across counties Kildare have been totally useless.

Demographics will not necessarily benefit any county. Dublin, Meath and Kildare are being totally transformed at moment and that will get worse, yes worse under their mad plans.

We be lucky if there's any GAA in 2050.

gaffer91 · 24-12-2019 11:28AM

tritium wrote: »

As others have pointed out just because you want something to be true doesn’t actually make it true. Much as you may want to be able to tell yourself that Kerry’s success was all pure and fair, the uncomfortable evidence, as detailed earlier in this thread , gives a lie to that narrative. And you’ve provided absolutely nothing to refute that evidence. If anything Kerry’s advantages have been more insidious- at least dublin also had to deal with the established financial/administrative juggernaut that is Kerry, Kerry in their own pomp had no one close to them in terms of any advantages they held.

It’s pretty clear from your previous post and continued avoidance of the topic by the way that a) splitting dublin would do exactly zero for smaller counties and b) you know that that but don’t actually care since your agenda is about restoring the old status quo

There was no "uncomfortable evidence". There is nothing to refute. Dublin alone are uniquely advantaged in the current environment. They are massively overfunded compared to everyone else. Both from the GAA, the government and their sponsors. No-one else, including Kerry, even comes close. They have the largest playing pool by a country mile. They play most consequential games at home.

So Kerry, or any other county, have no advantages. Dublin have many. They are so ingrained they mean Dublin will have to be split to help mitigate them.

This arguments stands on its own merits. Imagine I support Louth if that helps you to deal with it. Splitting Dublin will help all counties by ensuring the All Ireland competition survives- no-one will be watching, attending or caring in 10 years as the current Dublin dominance built on these unfair advantages continues unabated.

gaffer91 · 24-12-2019 11:31AM

kilns wrote: »

This is where your logic is really hard to understand if Dublin is split yes Dublin get weaker but Kerry Tyrone Mayo don’t for example. How does this ensure there is a competition for weaker counties to play in, longford Leitrim Wicklow Waterford Antrim etc will still be miles behind a county like Kerry so it fixes absolutely nothing it just doubles Kerry chance of winning an Ireland. Is that fair?

Once again. No-one will be watching, attending or caring about inter-county football in 10 years as the Dublin dominance built on their current unfair platform continues. If you want to see the future, see the way the Leinster championship has gone over the last 15 years.

Splitting Dublin will help ensure the meaningful survival of the competition. It's not the only change but it's the most important one. So it will help all counties- including Dublin. More players from Dublin can play at the highest level, Dublin GAA members and supporters will still have teams to support and the survival of the competition will help them too.

gaffer91 · 24-12-2019 11:35AM

tritium wrote: »

Bit rich to be claiming dublin posters are disingenuous though. So far in this thread it’s largely only the dublin posters who have expressed any willingness to give up funding to help the weaker counties get ahead. Mention their financial or other advantages to the anti dublin brigade and ask them to give some of them up and we just get a blanket denial of reality, even when the facts are on public record.

Because if you’re to be honest they also don’t give a ****e, to use your expression, about the weaker counties, or indeed about the “good of the game”, they just want the old status quo back

And that’s also the truth of the matter

What Dublin supporters have come down in favour of giving up funding? It's nearly always denied in the first instance and then when the evidence is overwhelming they accept it as a fact but deny it matters.

Suggestions to share all sponsorship funding is met with laughs and cries about communism.

Again- it's not just the financial advantages. Other advantages, such as population, are as important, especially when these things are taken together.

24-12-2019 01:27PM

gaffer91 wrote: »

So Kerry, or any other county, have no advantages. Dublin have many.

Kerry don't have any advantages over Leitrim in terms of funding and population and sponsorship? You're seriously gonna stand there and say that with a straight face?

Bonniedog · 24-12-2019 01:31PM

Some people just hate Dublin and Dubs.

Its like the tractor protest. The Minister for agri lives in Mallow but no way the boys are going to fkn blockade any rural town.

Must think we are all shareholders in their old pal Larry's company with whom they defrauded the EU for 20 years!

But sure stop the Dubs going to work and school and hospital. That'll sort tehm.

Nollaig shona dhaoibh go léir,

gaffer91 · 24-12-2019 01:33PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Kerry don't have any advantages over Leitrim in terms of funding and population and sponsorship? You're seriously gonna stand there and say that with a straight face?

Wait, so population and funding are advantages to a team now? That's a pretty big concession of you to make.

You're right though and I will qualify my statement. The perceived advantages that Kerry or any other county may or may not have are minuscule and meaningless when compared to the scale, nature, duration and combination of advantages that Dublin enjoy.

So once again we're brought to the conclusion that Dublin alone should be split.

salmocab · 24-12-2019 01:39PM

gaffer91 wrote: »

So once again we're brought to the conclusion that Dublin alone should be split.

No not we’re, you are but that’s where you started anyway so your just looking for reasons to say it should happen. The good news for you is you can keep this up for a long time because it’s not going to happen.

MayoAreMagic · 25-12-2019 07:48PM

tritium wrote: »

You’d be doing well to make an argument for 15 counties that would benefit from hobbling Dublin. Maybe 3 outside Leinster and 2-3 in Leinster looking for provincial honors but no further, at a push, the rest would still be well off the pace.

Bit rich to be claiming dublin posters are disingenuous though. So far in this thread it’s largely only the dublin posters who have expressed any willingness to give up funding to help the weaker counties get ahead. Mention their financial or other advantages to the anti dublin brigade and ask them to give some of them up and we just get a blanket denial of reality, even when the facts are on public record.

Because if you’re to be honest they also don’t give a ****e, to use your expression, about the weaker counties, or indeed about the “good of the game”, they just want the old status quo back

And that’s also the truth of the matter

Ah here. Give us a break will you?
Of course it helps every other county. It gives them all a better chance and it saves them from getting these hockeyings that are doing nobody any favours.
2 dublin teams would still be as good as the other teams in the competition and would still be in the top 3 most populated catchment areas.
The truth of the matter is dubs want to shoot fish in a barrel instead of competing on a fairer plain and actually earning some titles in a more even environment. This is mainly down to the fact that kerry have a good team coming through and the dubs dont want to lose to them.

MayoAreMagic · 25-12-2019 08:04PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Kerry don't have any advantages over Leitrim in terms of funding and population and sponsorship? You're seriously gonna stand there and say that with a straight face?

Why do you insist on conjoining the obvious issue with dublins ridiculous advantages with the obvious issue with leitrim being so small?
They are two different issues requiring two different solutions.

dunnerc · 25-12-2019 08:19PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Ah here. Give us a break will you?
Of course it helps every other county. It gives them all a better chance and it saves them from getting these hockeyings that are doing nobody any favours.
2 dublin teams would still be as good as the other teams in the competition and would still be in the top 3 most populated catchment areas.
The truth of the matter is dubs want to shoot fish in a barrel instead of competing on a fairer plain and actually earning some titles in a more even environment. This is mainly down to the fact that kerry have a good team coming through and the dubs dont want to lose to them.

Even on Christmas day:rolleyes: Jesus Wept....

Coillte_Bhoy · 26-12-2019 12:49AM

Bonniedog wrote: »

Some people just hate Dublin and Dubs.

Its like the tractor protest. The Minister for agri lives in Mallow but no way the boys are going to fkn blockade any rural town.

Must think we are all shareholders in their old pal Larry's company with whom they defrauded the EU for 20 years!

But sure stop the Dubs going to work and school and hospital. That'll sort tehm.

Nollaig shona dhaoibh go l,

Aye because a tractor blockade in Mallow, a town of what? 10-15,000 will get the same publicity as one in the capital city?

Dr. Bre · 26-12-2019 01:38AM

Between 96 -2011 dubs were labelled bottlers. Then they started winning allegedly cos of money. Bonnie is correct in saying dubs just can’t win . Remember some of those AI finals could of gone either way. Dubs did 5 in a row but it could have been 2 wins in last five years

ITman88 · 26-12-2019 01:48AM

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Between 96 -2011 dubs were labelled bottlers. Then they started winning allegedly cos of money. Bonnie is correct in saying dubs just can’t win . Remember some of those AI finals could of gone either way. Dubs did 5 in a row but it could have been 2 wins in last five years

Didn’t see those, no panic in any of the games, Cooper puts the hand up to slow down the play, cue 5 minutes of slurry, game over

MayoAreMagic · 26-12-2019 03:45AM

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Between 96 -2011 dubs were labelled bottlers. Then they started winning allegedly cos of money. Bonnie is correct in saying dubs just can’t win . Remember some of those AI finals could of gone either way. Dubs did 5 in a row but it could have been 2 wins in last five years

If you feel so strongly that this money was not the deciding factor, then surely you should be chomping at the bit to go and compete on an even playing field and thereby prove your point and prove that pound for pound, dublin are the best footballing county. But what you are saying is you want the credit because the money didnt decide the thing, but definately dont take the money away either, which is frankly a fairly blatant bit of bluff that nobody, yourself included, truely entertains..
The answer is simple. Keep the money, or at least a proportionate share of it, and just play 2 dublin teams at intercounty. Very simple, much fairer and improves the gaa for everyone literally overnight.

The ironic thing is, if you look at the selection for what would have been north dublin over the last 10 years, they could easily have won 5 in a row themselves. They could potentially have thrown away the chance at what would have been a bone fida 5 in a row, to keep a kind of de facto provincial team and win a 5 in a row with them, that will always have that footnote of dublin being funded and treated as a province in basically every way, bar the opposition they face.

Strumms · 26-12-2019 03:33PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

If you feel so strongly that this money was not the deciding factor, then surely you should be chomping at the bit to go and compete on an even playing field
The answer is simple. Keep the money, or at least a proportionate share of it, and just play 2 dublin teams at intercounty. Very simple, much fairer and improves the gaa for everyone literally overnight.

Sport isn’t an even playing field. By suggesting that it is or should be you are demonstrating that you have absolutely zero concept of ‘sport’. Every team, player, board, coach, supporter is attempting to enable their team to win, to beat their opposition...its competitive, its competition.

In equestrian games.....Do we stop the French teams taking their horses to events in air conditioned trucks because the Spanish and Irish federations don’t have the resources to do the same ?

The Italian football team, do we stop them from training on all weather heated pitches ? Because the Icelandic team who they will be playing can’t, they haven't got the resources or access ?

Do we award whatever figure skater a head start on points because they have to travel an extra thousand miles to a competition, where they only have a three star hotel, limited budget for food, entertainment and comfort as opposed to say Great Britain, Sweden or Germany who are getting room service and massages at the Radisson ?

The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1