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Wealth distribution through property taxation

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12357…15

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    #122
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,630 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    anewme wrote: »
    That's clearly what people mean by burning it.

    I'm sure there are no FIrestarters on the thread.

    A few round the world cruises in First Class with vintage Dom Perignon will help.

    Also, the dogs home.

    Apart from being lighthearted, the Govt is trying to get people to provide for themselves in old age by pension and savings. Yet if I die tomorrow, whatever I've saved gets fleeced, so I'm thinking I should spend it now. Its definitely an issue that people need to consider, particularly single people to find the right balance.

    You are right there.

    That tipping point where people decide to dispose of cash/assets is problematic for most.

    You never know when you will need it so parting with it too soon can be a big mistake.


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    #123
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    anewme wrote: »
    That's clearly what people mean by burning it.

    I'm sure there are no FIrestarters on the thread.

    A few round the world cruises in First Class with vintage Dom Perignon will help.

    Also, the dogs home.

    Apart from being lighthearted, the Govt is trying to get people to provide for themselves in old age by pension and savings. Yet if I die tomorrow, whatever I've saved gets fleeced, so I'm thinking I should spend it now. Its definitely an issue that people need to consider, particularly single people to find the right balance.

    Well, that’s a different sentiment. You’d be enjoying your wealth there. And that answers another question asked on this thread: “What’s the point in building wealth if you can’t pass it on?”. As if there aren’t considerable benefits to being wealthy other than bequeathing it to others. A comfortable life for oneself is a considerable motivator.


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    #124
    Diarmuid
    Registered Users Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭Diarmuid


    One other point. Posters talk about passing on an inheritance to "their children". Average life expectancy is 82-ish. So "their children" are somewhere in the region of late 40s to early 60 when the parents pass away.

    .Are we really saying that the heavy income tax burden should be on those in their 20s and, 30s so that the 'poor children" in their 50s don't have to pay tax on a 250k windfall they did nothing to earn?


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    #125
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    pwurple wrote: »
    Ireland is part of a global economy don’t forget. We are not prisoners here at all.

    Portugal is where the grey money is headed at the moment. Sell house in Ireland, buy much cheaper house abroad. Make new will there. Nice incentives for drawing the pension down there too.

    Also, Australia, New Zealand, Estonia, Norway, Canada, etc etc etc. all zero estate tax.

    Very clever words of wisdom.

    What if the host country changes the rules or says your money stays here but you can't? What if there's a war?

    I bet you will want state handouts in Ireland then? And where does that dosh come from?


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    #126
    20/20
    Registered Users Posts: 705 ✭✭✭20/20


    Diarmuid wrote: »
    One other point. Posters talk about passing on an inheritance to "their children". Average life expectancy is 82-ish. So "their children" are somewhere in the region of late 40s to early 60 when the parents pass away.

    .Are we really saying that the heavy income tax burden should be on those in their 20s and, 30s so that the 'poor children" in their 50s don't have to pay tax on a 250k windfall they did nothing to earn?

    There is no tax on 250K. It starts at 330K I think.
    Stop making comments for the sake of it.


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    #127
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,630 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Diarmuid wrote: »
    One other point. Posters talk about passing on an inheritance to "their children". Average life expectancy is 82-ish. So "their children" are somewhere in the region of late 40s to early 60 when the parents pass away.

    .Are we really saying that the heavy income tax burden should be on those in their 20s and, 30s so that the 'poor children" in their 50s don't have to pay tax on a 250k windfall they did nothing to earn?

    As I read it people are saying that they would like to decide what happens to their money in a way similar to how they would decide what to do with it in their lifetime.

    The circumstances of the inheritor are not legislated for in any case.

    One 50 year old may be a complete rake who will dispose of their inheritance in a pub or bookie.
    Another may have 3 kids to put through college and a big mortgage.

    The Revenue Commissioners just take their share regardless.

    Also don't forget that both the testator and the beneficiaries will most likely have paid high rates on income tax in their 20's and 30's.


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    #128
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,823 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Dav010 wrote: »
    What leg up are you referring to?

    If you asked that question. You've proved my point fantastically.


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    #129
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,823 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    pwurple wrote: »
    Ireland is part of a global economy don’t forget. We are not prisoners here at all.

    Portugal is where the grey money is headed at the moment. Sell house in Ireland, buy much cheaper house abroad. Make new will there. Nice incentives for drawing the pension down there too.

    Also, Australia, New Zealand, Estonia, Norway, Canada, etc etc etc. all zero estate tax.

    Your right. It's always the threat used by wealthy people who leech off whatever particular country they are in at a given time. It's as old as time.

    Il take my ball home if I can't be the striker...


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    #130
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    listermint wrote: »
    Your right. It's always the threat used by wealthy people who leech off whatever particular country they are in at a given time. It's as old as time.

    Il take my ball home if I can't be the striker...

    I would google the word leech. Its normally to extract something out of x. Wealthy people do not extract but try to minimise leeching as much as possible.

    In the case above, it is legal tax avoidance/leeching by moving your assets elsewhere.


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    #131
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,252 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    listermint wrote: »
    If you asked that question. You've proved my point fantastically.

    In otherwords, you don’t know what leg up you are posting about.

    What leg up?


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    #132
    ZeroThreat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,183 ✭✭✭ZeroThreat


    A lot of jealous begrudgery going on in this thread. The OP also has the customary axe to grind against Dubliners for the fact their kids can often live at home a little longer so wants to tax parents into oblivion.


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    #133
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,476 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    anewme wrote: »
    I won’t though.

    Go out and have a family if it pisses you off that much. You'll find you wont have as much to "pass on" if you do though.


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    #134
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,476 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    Absoballylutely, the people who say they’d burn any money over the threshold rather than see it taxed are blatant bullshitters.

    It's be far smarter just to spend it but hey - no one knows when they'll pop their clogs.


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    #135
    Sheeps
    Registered Users Posts: 2,762 ✭✭✭Sheeps


    Nobody in this thread pays 52% tax. That's completely made up.


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    #136
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,476 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    The Student wrote: »
    Completely agree with this. Those who stand on their own two feet are expected to provide for those who are able but could not be bothered. Those who are just plain lazy.
    It's not as black and white as "those hard workers who earn the money" and "those layabout lazy people who expect the state to provide for them".

    There are literally hundreds of thousands of people in the middle of either scenario who those who need support going through college to get that "foot up" or who are ill for a while and need some state support, or who find themselves out of a job. We already know when unemployment was at it's highest there were lots of people out of work - it reduced back down again after a while - with people who found a new job and/or retrained. Those "ineritance" and other taxes pay to support those people also.


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    #137
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,297 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    why wont redistribution of wealth not work?
    Redistribute it to who? Those who will pump out multiple sprogs whilst on social welfare, who have not worked a day in their lives, and do not plan to work a day in their lives?


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    #138
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,476 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    20/20 wrote: »
    There is no tax on 250K. It starts at 330K I think.
    Stop making comments for the sake of it.

    I brought up the 250K earlier in the thread as that is the lowest figure it has been in the past still decande. It is over 330K at the moment but that doesn't effect the point the poster makes - the opposite if anything.


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    #139
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,476 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    the_syco wrote: »
    Redistribute it to who? Those who will pump out multiple sprogs whilst on social welfare, who have not worked a day in their lives, and do not plan to work a day in their lives?

    It's simply not that black and white.


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    #140
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    kippy wrote: »
    It's simply not that black and white.

    The ones who refuse to work are blameless as are the ones who fiddle. They are doing nothing less than those in power.

    If the system is wrong then people will abuse it. Correct the system and theres the answer but as long as politicians can use benefits for votes then you will always have people fiddling and refusing to work.

    The real victims are the real needy people in hardship which the system was originally set up for and they now fall by the wayside.

    If the system was overhauled you wouldnt need to try and tax people to death.


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    #141
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,476 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Boredstiff666 wrote: »
    The ones who refuse to work are blameless as are the ones who fiddle. They are doing nothing less than those in power.

    If the system is wrong then people will abuse it. Correct the system and theres the answer but as long as politicians can use benefits for votes then you will always have people fiddling and refusing to work.

    The real victims are the real needy people in hardship which the system was originally set up for and they now fall by the wayside.

    If the system was overhauled you wouldnt need to try and tax people to death.

    Have you ever voted in an election?


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    #142
    Sheeps
    Registered Users Posts: 2,762 ✭✭✭Sheeps


    We're at full employment in this economy, yet some people here think all their tax money is being spent on social welfare recipients.

    For the average effective rate of tax you pay of 14%, 26% goes to the DEASP. 10% of the total exchequor or 40% of the DEASP goes on pensions, eligable to all, but a larger portion is only eligible to PRSI contributors.

    5% of the total exchequor goes to work suppliments, the largest portion of which are not those who are permanently unemployed, but who are in and out of employment making PRSI contributions.

    https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/


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    #143
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    kippy wrote: »
    Have you ever voted in an election?

    Yes why?


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    #144
    holyhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭holyhead


    The redistribution of wealth argument re inheritance tax is a nonsense. It is simply another way for the state to extract tax from it's citizens. Their is something inherently wrong if I own an asset that I can't leave it to whom I want without the inheritor having to hand over money to the state. We had a situation where two friends married to avoid inheritance tax. This makes a mockery of marriage.


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    #145
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    I have been with my Mrs 36 years and we have to get married next year for same reasons. Dunno if I am sure about it now though.

    But if I go down the dole I can't get a penny cus she is working and earns over certain amount........work that out!


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    #146
    Sheeps
    Registered Users Posts: 2,762 ✭✭✭Sheeps


    holyhead wrote: »
    The redistribution of wealth argument re inheritance tax is a nonsense. It is simply another way for the state to extract tax from it's citizens.

    That's exactly the point. It's a way of balancing wealth inequality and stopping wealth from snowballing and having a whole host of knock on effects on just about every other aspect of our ecnonmy.


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    #147
    Sheeps
    Registered Users Posts: 2,762 ✭✭✭Sheeps


    Boredstiff666 wrote: »
    I have been with my Mrs 36 years and we have to get married next year for same reasons. Dunno if I am sure about it now though.

    But if I go down the dole I can't get a penny cus she is working and earns over certain amount........work that out!

    If you're with her 36 years id say it's about time to get married. If you don't work and you havent been joint assessed, your wife has been missing out on your tax credits and you've probably lost a fortune.


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    #148
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,913 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    kippy wrote: »
    Go out and have a family if it pisses you off that much. You'll find you wont have as much to "pass on" if you do though.

    This does not suit your narrative that people can pass on hundreds of thousands to the next generation.

    If you were going to be doubley taxed on your after tax life earnings after almost 50 years of hard work with the exception of 60k, you'd not be best pleased.

    I dont have to explain my personal circumstances to anyone.


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    #149
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    Why should we have to do what others say we should? The government don't own us.


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    #150
    Sheeps
    Registered Users Posts: 2,762 ✭✭✭Sheeps


    Boredstiff666 wrote: »
    Why should we have to do what others say we should? The government don't own us.

    Haha try that one with revenue when they come after you.


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    #151
    holyhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭holyhead


    Sheeps wrote: »
    That's exactly the point. It's a way of balancing wealth inequality and stopping wealth from snowballing and having a whole host of knock on effects on just about every other aspect of our ecnonmy.

    In a capitalist society there will always be wealth inequality and over time that has gotten worse.


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