Unionists and a United Ireland.

fly_agaric · 23-12-2019 12:42pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Where will the EU get the money?

https://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/en/funding/available-budget/

The total budget for all regional policy was €351 bn, except that was spread over six years meaning €58 bn per year. To get €9bn a year, we would need to take 15.5% of the total budget. But wait, what about Brexit, well Brexit is going to result is less money being available for the EU to spend on regional development, so we will probably need to secure 20% of all regional policy funding for the period 2021-27.

How realistic is it that the EU is going to hand over 20% of all regional funding, already under pressure because of Brexit, to a region that wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't for Brexit?

Seriously?

I'm sure EU money for NI transitioning out of the UK will be found somewhere if/when it is needed.
However we are big boys now and a very wealthy country, not "poor little Ireland" (although the way the country is run sometimes one might not think it). We can cover most of it ourselves if the will is there to do it.

fly_agaric · 23-12-2019 12:49pm

McGiver wrote: »

Also it is expected that the UK will, the EU and possibly even the US would chip in, initially.

UK under current government + its emerging hostile policy towards its' neighbours? I wouldn't bet on it to be honest. Wouldn't count heavily on the US if Trump or a Republican successor with same ideas is president even if other branches of the govt. might be supportive.

Boredstiff666 · 23-12-2019 12:53pm

fly_agaric wrote: »

I'm sure EU money for NI transitioning out of the UK will be found somewhere if/when it is needed.
However we are big boys now and a very wealthy country, not "poor little Ireland" (although the way the country is run sometimes one might not think it). We can cover most of it ourselves if the will is there to do it.

Well the trouble with people in Ireland is that they forget the money they receive and have done for 40 years is hard working peoples tax money robbed from their wages.

So Ireland has become addicted to that money and always expects it and more.

If you think the other hard working people in the EU are going to relish replacing the UK's contribution and empty their pockets even more to basically 'Just prove a point ( ner ner nah ner ner)...........You are really really off this planet.

Ireland a big boy? What a joke.

An economic policy which no other country in the world adopts where they borrow money to build factories and extensions for multinationals and then not tax them but use their turnover in the countries GDP figures.........Thats the economy of a banana republic not a big boy economy.

megaten · 23-12-2019 2:28pm

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

If you think the other hard working people in the EU are going to relish replacing the UK's contribution and empty their pockets even more to basically 'Just prove a point ( ner ner nah ner ner)...........You are really really off this planet.

They already do, loads of projects in Northern Ireland are funded by the EU. The EU is also used as a vehicle by the British and Irish governments to fund NI projects since its seen as 'clean' money.

Boredstiff666 · 23-12-2019 3:31pm

megaten wrote: »

They already do, loads of projects in Northern Ireland are funded by the EU. The EU is also used as a vehicle by the British and Irish governments to fund NI projects since its seen as 'clean' money.

I'm on about all the extra cash to be found for what isn't there anymore and what the rest of the UK pump into the place to keep it quiet.

Only sh*tholes have trouble and attract trouble. You dont usually get terrorists and rioting in affluent areas which is why most of NI is better than a lot of parts of mainland UK.

But it wasn't like that 50 years ago.

pablo128 · 23-12-2019 3:48pm

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

I'm on about all the extra cash to be found for what isn't there anymore and what the rest of the UK pump into the place to keep it quiet.

Only sh*tholes have trouble and attract trouble. You dont usually get terrorists and rioting in affluent areas which is why most of NI is better than a lot of parts of mainland UK.

But it wasn't like that 50 years ago.

No wonder it's 9b a year to run the place.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.theguardian.com/books/2019/nov/13/burned-cash-for-ash-scandal-sam-mcbride&ved=2ahUKEwj0_IPQgMzmAhWNN8AKHT4RAQUQFjAKegQIBRAJ&usg=AOvVaw1e9bHFbQNVex8sccm4e9sR&ampcf=1

BluePlanet · 23-12-2019 3:51pm

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

An economic policy which no other country in the world adopts where they borrow money to build factories and extensions for multinationals and then not tax them but use their turnover in the countries GDP figures.........Thats the economy of a banana republic not a big boy economy.

That sounds pretty much like what Amazon were gunning for, to set up shop in NYC.
Complete with promises of "25000 jobs", numbers of course that were never scrutinized.

Boredstiff666 · 23-12-2019 3:53pm

NYC?

BluePlanet · 23-12-2019 3:56pm

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

NYC?

New York City.
You questioned where else do multinationals out with the begging bowl, yet skirt taxes and I just pitched you one.
It's in USA.

Boredstiff666 · 23-12-2019 4:02pm

BluePlanet wrote: »

New York City.
You questioned where else do multinationals out with the begging bowl, yet skirt taxes and I just pitched you one.
It's in USA.

Sorry I understand.

In Ireland they borrow or tax to build and extend factories for such regardless of not taxing them. Ireland cannot afford this.

Big diverse economies can absorb people like that with no effect on the economy but even in the UK Amazon has destroyed the high street shopping so their days will soon be numbered.

Didn't someone reckon that one company owed Ireland billions in unpaid tax a few years back?

fly_agaric · 23-12-2019 6:17pm

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Well the trouble with people in Ireland is that they forget the money they receive and have done for 40 years is hard working peoples tax money robbed from their wages.

So Ireland has become addicted to that money and always expects it and more.

If you think the other hard working people in the EU are going to relish replacing the UK's contribution and empty their pockets even more to basically 'Just prove a point ( ner ner nah ner ner)...........You are really really off this planet.

Ireland a big boy? What a joke.

The term "big boy" seems to have upset you, sorry about that!
I meant in purely in the sense that if unification happens, taking alot of the cost ourselves is something we should be able to handle. If you calm down & re-read the post you might see I was saying we should not need the whole amount to pay for unification from kind-hearted benefactors like our good friends over in the UK...

As for the EU/other EU states not "relishing replacing the UK's contribution", if we do need some monetary assistance I think we'll get it. They won't be doing it to "prove a point" re the UK or because they really love us, just to try and make sure that unification is not a failure + doesn't send a member state into chaos.

Being blind to that is knowing the cost of everything + value of nothing. A bit like the UK Brexiters reasoning Ireland was going to be dumped in the shít by the rest of the EU because "German cars, french cheeses & wine" etc.

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

An economic policy which no other country in the world adopts where they borrow money to build factories and extensions for multinationals and then not tax them but use their turnover in the countries GDP figures.........Thats the economy of a banana republic not a big boy economy.

There are other places on Earth that are worse than us when it comes to being a "tax haven" but I'd agree situation is not sustainable.
You say "not taxing" multinationals (not sure what you are on about with borrowing to build their factories?)...

Multinationals do pay tax here, and given the size of the companies involved the amounts are quite large for a small state like Ireland + make up alot (too much?) of tax receipts here (e.g. https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/corporation-tax-receipts-hit-record-6-9bn-in-october-1.4072112) even when they are using a base in Ireland to avoid tax (overall) in some way.
If you think all improvement since the 80s is illusory & explained by tax wheezes or creative accounting you don't know much about Ireland IMO.

DublinWriter · 23-12-2019 6:25pm

Forget all about 'flegs' and symbolism for a moment...

I currently get my ROI prescription filled in Newry. It costs between a third and quarter of what I'd pay down here.

Even a box of 48 Ibuprofen costs £2.50 in NI, compared to €8+ down here.

The UK pays the same amount of money to keep the lights-on in NI that it does in Net contributions to remain in the EU (£11bn+).

We would need to really up our game in the south in respect to being gouged six-ways from Sunday in relation to pharma-costs.

FrancieBrady · 23-12-2019 7:10pm

The idea that the EU will even have to be asked to help with making a success of a UI is a far fetched one.
They have been fully behind the peace process since it was signed up to and will want to see a successful country emerge.
It also solves a lot of problems for the security of the bloc with the UK getting increasingly divisive and turbulent and seeking ways to undermine something they foolishly see as an equal competitor.

Boredstiff666 · 23-12-2019 7:23pm

fly_agaric wrote: »

The term "big boy" seems to have upset you, sorry about that!

Comedian.

Watch what happens in a few months then with your big boy grown up economy.

BluePlanet · 24-12-2019 8:15am

People in the Republic have spent 4.9 billion over xmas; that's just a holiday I'd say the money is there to float that bloated civil service in NI

Boredstiff666 · 24-12-2019 8:18am

BluePlanet wrote: »

People in the Republic have spent 4.9 billion over xmas; that's just a holiday I'd say the money is there to float that bloated civil service in NI

People always splurge before the end.

McGiver · 24-12-2019 8:56am

fly_agaric wrote:

UK under current government + its emerging hostile policy towards its' neighbours? I wouldn't bet on it to be honest. Wouldn't count heavily on the US if Trump or a Republican successor with same ideas is president even if other branches of the govt. might be supportive.

Yeah, that's an issue.

McGiver · 24-12-2019 9:02am

Boredstiff666 wrote:

Well the trouble with people in Ireland is that they forget the money they receive and have done for 40 years is hard working peoples tax money robbed from their wages.

Don't start this nonsense again. This is unsupported by facts and denies reality.

Irish corporate taxes as a % of tax revenue are too high (12%). It should be half of that. So only 88% is possibly from "hard-working people".

Secondly, Irish overall taxation (income, prsi, vat effect) is low in EU comparison, in fact 3rd lowest after microsystems and tax havens Malta and Cyprus. Comparing average salary with average salary.

I'd like to see your face in Germany, Finland, France or Portugal if you think Irish taxes are high!

/off topic

Boredstiff666 · 24-12-2019 10:15am

McGiver wrote: »

Don't start this nonsense again. This is unsupported by facts and denies reality.

Irish corporate taxes as a % of tax revenue are too high (12%). It should be half of that. So only 88% is possibly from "hard-working people".

Secondly, Irish overall taxation (income, prsi, vat effect) is low in EU comparison, in fact 3rd lowest after microsystems and tax havens Malta and Cyprus. Comparing average salary with average salary.

I'd like to see your face in Germany, Finland, France or Portugal if you think Irish taxes are high!

/off topic

Then you jumped in with both feet in gob because I wasn't referring to Irish people, I was referring to all the EU money Ireland has had over the years.

That isn't magic money off the magic money tree. That is those working peoples wages you have been having for 40 plus years.

No doubt if they had kept it in their own country and used it for such there wouldn't be such a grievance to keep paying into the EU for others.

You have no idea of the resentment that causes in other countries.

I can imagine the uproar if they turned around and said right pay it all back now as Ireland is fine.

Would you double your tax rate to do that?

FrancieBrady · 24-12-2019 10:19am

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Then you jumped in with both feet in gob because I wasn't referring to Irish people, I was referring to all the EU money Ireland has had over the years.

That isn't magic money off the magic money tree. That is those working peoples wages you have been having for 40 plus years.

No doubt if they had kept it in their own country and used it for such there wouldn't be such a grievance to keep paying into the EU for others.

You have no idea of the resentment that causes in other countries.

I can imagine the uproar if they turned around and said right pay it all back now as Ireland is fine.

Would you double your tax rate to do that?

Those grievances really showed over the last 3 years as rest of the EU stood firmly behind us as our supposedly friendly neighbour tried in vain to do us over.

Live in the real world would you. I'd be the first to criticise the EU in that real world but there is no evidence worth talking about of this 'grievance'...why? Because most people know that is how the EU works,

Boredstiff666 · 24-12-2019 10:26am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Those grievances really showed over the last 3 years as rest of the EU stood firmly behind us as our supposedly friendly neighbour tried in vain to do us over.

Live in the real world would you. I'd be the first to criticise the EU in that real world but there is no evidence worth talking about of this 'grievance'...why? Because most people know that is how the EU works,

The EU wasnt standing by Ireland they were using Ireland and our neighbour wasn't doing us down. Leo backed the wrong horse. Just watch what happens in the next few months.

I do hope you have a nice xmas.

FrancieBrady · 24-12-2019 10:29am

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

The EU was standing by Ireland they were using Ireland and our neighbour wasn't doing us down. Leo backed the wrong horse. Just watch what happens in the next few months.

I do hope you have a nice xmas.

Boris will drive his wedge deeper into his own 'Union' in the next few months. That he got 'his way' on Brexit is a sign of how deeply divided that union is not a sign of any unity.

The UK is in the process of failing, tried to drag us down but the rest of our allies in the EU saw to it that damage to us was limited.

Boredstiff666 · 24-12-2019 10:40am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Boris will drive his wedge deeper into his own 'Union' in the next few months. That he got 'his way' on Brexit is a sign of how deeply divided that union is not a sign of any unity.

The UK is in the process of failing, tried to drag us down but the rest of our allies in the EU saw to it that damage to us was limited.

Hold on if the UK is failing how come the economy is better than Germany and half its citizens arent on the streets rioting like France the other powerhouse out of the 3.

The union.......The UK union is just political from days of old and most possibly needs to change.

Fact.....Most English people do not understand NI and couldn't care less whether it reunites with the Republic or the Starship Enterprise. If the average other Brit knew how much it cost them it would be chainsawed loose in the morning.

Fact....I am not sure what Scots think but most English people would say goodbye tomorrow. If the English people were given a vote then it would be 'goodbye'.

Welsh I have no idea .

What happens afterwards in modern day 2020 and onwards.....England and whoever wants to stay will carry on ......as for the others.......well nobody really cares thats for them to sort out.

People outside UK seem to think all the roof will fall in if 1.5 million NI decide to leave or 5 million Scots vote for independance. The other 60 million English will just treat tomorrow as another day.

If people got there noses out of RTE and watched proper news instead of the Leo propaganda machine you may understand.

FrancieBrady · 24-12-2019 10:52am

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Hold on if the UK is failing how come the economy is better than Germany and half its citizens arent on the streets rioting like France the other powerhouse out of the 3.

The union.......The UK union is just political from days of old and most possibly needs to change.

Fact.....Most English people do not understand NI and couldn't care less whether it reunites with the Republic or the Starship Enterprise. If the average other Brit knew how much it cost them it would be chainsawed loose in the morning.

Fact....I am not sure what Scots think but most English people would say goodbye tomorrow. If the English people were given a vote then it would be 'goodbye'.

Welsh I have no idea .

What happens afterwards in modern day 2020 and onwards.....England and whoever wants to stay will carry on ......as for the others.......well nobody really cares thats for them to sort out.

People outside UK seem to think all the roof will fall in if 1.5 million NI decide to leave or 5 million Scots vote for independance. The other 60 million English will just treat tomorrow as another day.

If people got there noses out of RTE and watched proper news instead of the Leo propaganda machine you may understand.

Of course they will 'carry on'. But it will be an England that will be running dangerously close to needing the IMF again...as it did before the EEC rescued and enriched it in the 60's and 70's.

I.E. England has forgotten it is not a stand alone entity enriching itself from it's colonies anymore.

McGiver · 24-12-2019 10:53am

Boredstiff666 wrote:

Then you jumped in with both feet in gob because I wasn't referring to Irish people, I was referring to all the EU money Ireland has had over the years.

And? What's wrong with it? Made it from the backward farming country to a developed one, almost equal to the peers. We sell to them, they sell to us. And much more so - if Ireland was left to rot as a farming country it wouldn't buy and sell that much. It's a win-win, all sides benefit.

Boredstiff666 wrote:

That isn't magic money off the magic money tree. That is those working peoples wages you have been having for 40 plus years.

The EU contribution is mere few % of national budgets. The return of the investment is huge. It pays back orders of the magnitude more.

Boredstiff666 wrote:

No doubt if they had kept it in their own country and used it for such there wouldn't be such a grievance to keep paying into the EU for others.

The only grievance is from people like you, who are not a people of detail, leveraged by populists who jump on the euro bashing bandwagon.

And do what? Eat the money? Literally.
It's not for others. It's for everyone, including ourselves, as explained above. The richer the market you trade with the better. That's why everyone benefits. The richer pay a bit, not much in grand scheme of things, the poorer get richer, sell and buy more, trade is up, everyone is better off. Is that an issue?

Btw this is a UI thread, euro bashing thread is ---> that way.

McGiver · 24-12-2019 10:59am

FrancieBrady wrote:

Of course they will 'carry on'. But it will be an England that will be running dangerously close to needing the IMF again...as it did before the EEC rescued and enriched it in the 60's and 70's.

I don't think so. They will prevail but at a huge cost, humanity cost. Basically, the only way to keep afloat is this:

1. Stay as close to the EU as possible, like Norway.

2. Total deregulation and privatisation.

They won't do number 1 because all the oligarchs' money (namely Russian, English and American) invested into Brexit. So it will be number 2, which will keep them afloat financially but it will destroy any remaining manufacturing, especially foreign owned car manufacturing. The people will suffer. It will be austerity and thatcherism/reaganism on steroids. The rich will get richer, working class will be screwed.

Boredstiff666 · 24-12-2019 11:03am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Of course they will 'carry on'. But it will be an England that will be running dangerously close to needing the IMF again...as it did before the EEC rescued and enriched it in the 60's and 70's.

I.E. England has forgotten it is not a stand alone entity enriching itself from it's colonies anymore.

Dont be totally ridiculous.

So the money making diverse highly skilled country falls by the wayside because it doesnt have to subsidise a troublespot and a cold cold inhospitable place that its population has left ever since the Union.

The rest of the UK has been forced to send business (ship building) up to Scotland to keep them happy at the expense of the English shipyards is just one example.

Colonies?.....My god I did highlight 2020 and onwards.

Ever since Brexit was voted for Leo has been begging everyone to leave London and move to Dublin........Nobody has. In fact the banking sector refuses to move from London regardless of the intensive efforts of other EU countries.

All they managed to do was open a few offices abroad to carry on as before.

I really think instead of blaming the UK for all of Irelands ills (yet again) post Brexit, I think you ought to try and see the dire straits that this country (the Republic) is in.

If people continue to think that the EU is going to come running and bail us out then we are doomed.

After Brexit Ireland is simply of no use to them.

Seth Brundle · 24-12-2019 11:06am

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Fact....I am not sure what Scots think but most English people would say goodbye tomorrow. If the English people were given a vote then it would be 'goodbye'.

Welsh I have no idea .

Ignoring your random use of underlining,you can't say "Fact" and then tell us what you think unless you want to mimic Donald Trump.

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

I really think instead of blaming the UK for all of Irelands ills (yet again) post Brexit, I think you ought to try and see the dire straits that this country (the Republic) is in.

If people continue to think that the EU is going to come running and bail us out then we are doomed.

After Brexit Ireland is simply of no use to them.

Mod: Can you please elaborate on this using some actual evidence rather than leave something that is dangerously close to trolling?

Boredstiff666 · 24-12-2019 11:09am

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Mod: Can you please elaborate on this using some actual evidence rather than leave something that is dangerously close to trolling?

I wasn't trolling Mod I was trying to highlight and despel some wrongly assumed beliefs.

I'm out anyway as its xmas and nearly 2020 not 1860.

Merry xmas all.

FrancieBrady · 24-12-2019 11:11am

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Dont be totally ridiculous.

So the money making diverse highly skilled country falls by the wayside because it doesnt have to subsidise a troublespot and a cold cold inhospitable place that its population has left ever since the Union.

The rest of the UK has been forced to send business (ship building) up to Scotland to keep them happy at the expense of the English shipyards is just one example.

Colonies?.....My god I did highlight 2020 and onwards.

Ever since Brexit was voted for Leo has been begging everyone to leave London and move to Dublin........Nobody has. In fact the banking sector refuses to move from London regardless of the intensive efforts of other EU countries.

All they managed to do was open a few offices abroad to carry on as before.

I really think instead of blaming the UK for all of Irelands ills (yet again) post Brexit, I think you ought to try and see the dire straits that this country (the Republic) is in.

If people continue to think that the EU is going to come running and bail us out then we are doomed.

After Brexit Ireland is simply of no use to them.

As transparent an argument as 'take back control' was.

If you cannot see what the UK has lost in just trying to bludgeon it's way out of the EU,(because essentially one part of that UK is so blind that it cannot see the benefits , but curiously wants to retain all those benefits) of that greater Union then you are lost.

After Brexit, just like the UK, the EU will move on too with some damage done, the UK will have to start from the beginning and play catch up. Good luck with that, everything your masters have predicted HAS to go to plan or the UK is diminished. Boris and co. won't suffer, that is why he can take the risks.

Unionists and a United Ireland.

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