Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Unionists and a United Ireland.

Options
124678

Comments

  • Options
    #92
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    ReginaldSmythV wrote: »
    We don’t need to be in the commonwealth.


    Do we need to change the flag or anthem?

    ****



  • Options
    #93
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    ReginaldSmythV wrote: »
    We don’t need to be in the commonwealth.

    It's an idea out there to help bring people together, just like there's an idea that all unionists should be brought to Larne and put on the boat..


  • Options
    #94
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Do we need to change the flag or anthem?

    We certainly do not. Which is why there should be no attempt whatsoever to take on NI from the UK. Breaking off and aligning with an independent Scotland would be more applicable to them.


  • Options
    #95
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    It's an idea out there to help bring people together, just like there's an idea that all unionists should be brought to Larne and put on the boat..

    Bring people together by taking a **** on the graves of those who freed us from it only a short time ago? You will never bring us together with loyalists/unionists anyway. You’ll only dilute this country pandering to them with nothing that will ever be good enough for them.


  • Options
    #96
    niallers1
    Registered Users Posts: 799 ✭✭✭niallers1


    No need to appease Unionists . Let them have a few years of Brexit and they will be begging to join the South.

    They will be treated like everybody else, no better no worse. No need to pander to them. Equality for all.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #97
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    All unionists would have to do in that case would be to make sure there was no 'outcome' to the negotiations.

    That may be true but at the time any sort of a vote takes place on reunification (i.e. at least a decade from now), the situation will be very different at the present (possibly the Union less Scotland no longer existing at all) so things can't be looked at in the context of the present (although the present and the events taking place now are influencing that future situation).

    In the hypothetical future where a reunification vote is taking place, it would only be taking place because it is certain to be approved. This would mean that little remains of Unionism as we know it today and the majority of today's Unionists, or their descendents, accept that reunification is inevitable and are focused on maintaining their identity within the Irish state (they may no longer meet the definition of Unionism but you know what I mean). The first vote is to confirm that this is the democratic will of the people so get on board with it, a return to arms has no support.


  • Options
    #98
    An Ciarraioch
    Registered Users Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    ReginaldSmythV wrote: »
    We certainly do not. Which is why there should be no attempt whatsoever to take on NI from the UK. Breaking off and aligning with an independent Scotland would be more applicable to them.

    A referendum in NI could well happen before Scotland, given the latter depends on the SNP and Scottish Greens retaining Holyrood. As for the flag, a South African style flag mixing the five colours could work.


  • Options
    #99
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    An Ciarraioch wrote: »
    A referendum in NI could well happen before Scotland, given the latter depends on the SNP and Scottish Greens retaining Holyrood. As for the flag, a South African style flag mixing the five colours could work.

    We have a flag. People are far too keen to bin it as a form of begging to people who want nothing to do with us.


  • Options
    #100
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    Well there's a different angle and an echo of the ancient kingdom of Dalriada, was it?

    They could be in the commonwealth and the EU, we can remain as-is and England can swallow up Wales. I’d stick up a picture in another thread but I can’t remember where.
    That’s a better name than the Ulster-Scots Union name I had though.


  • Options
    #101
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Do we need to change the flag or anthem?

    The suggestion that this could actually happen would turn the vast majority of the population of Ireland off the idea of reunification. It would have to be on the basis that NI is joining Ireland, not a new country being set up encompassing both states.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #102
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    ReginaldSmythV wrote: »
    We certainly do not. Which is why there should be no attempt whatsoever to take on NI from the UK. Breaking off and aligning with an independent Scotland would be more applicable to them.

    The Scots wouldn't touch them. An independent Scotland would have enough issues to deal with without importing Irish republicanism as well.


  • Options
    #103
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    ReginaldSmythV wrote: »
    They could be in the commonwealth and the EU, we can remain as-is and England can swallow up Wales. I’d stick up a picture in another thread but I can’t remember where.
    That’s a better name than the Ulster-Scots Union name I had though.

    Well it's as good an idea as any. And with a sound historical basis as there were always strong links between Ulster (inc Donegal) & Scotland.
    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    The suggestion that this could actually happen would turn the vast majority of the population of Ireland off the idea of reunification. It would have to be on the basis that NI is joining Ireland, not a new country being set up encompassing both states.

    Who says? - that's the old mantra that the Unionists can just 'f**k off' back to where they came from. You/ I / We want a UI - then we have to come with a different way of looking at things.


  • Options
    #104
    vladmydad
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭vladmydad


    In 30 years time the map of Britain and Ireland will look exactly the same. The United Kingdom isn’t going anywhere. You’re looking at the wrong Union. The elephant in the room is the EU. It’s remarkable how people don’t notice (or refuse to see) how fragile the EU is. It never recovered from the body blow of the financial crisis and the breakdown of the borders during the Syrian crisis. The economic growth has been anemic for a decade. Italy just received a bank bailout, Sweden and Germany are on the brink of recession, our GDP growth is highly artificial, France is becoming ungovernable. The eastern EU states are becoming ever more politically and culturally distant from Brussels. A poll in Poland now shows a majority want out of the EU. Ironically the strongest economy is Britain, which is remarkable considering the years of uncertainty. Britain will have an economic freedom and agility the we simply won’t in the years to come.
    I truly believe Britain is the future and EU is terminally ill but with our disturbingly europhile média you won’t hear about it. One more exit or deep recession and the EU is done.


  • Options
    #105
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    Who says? - that's the old mantra that the Unionists can just 'f**k off' back to where they came from. You/ I / We want a UI - then we have to come with a different way of looking at things.

    It’s not just Unionists in the North who the idea of a united Ireland has to be sold to, there is also the population of Ireland who have to accept it. In reality, the only way it is going to happen is if NI has no alternative so they would have to take what is on offer in a lot of ways.


  • Options
    #106
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    vladmydad wrote: »
    In 30 years time the map of Britain and Ireland will look exactly the same. The United Kingdom isn’t going anywhere. You’re looking at the wrong Union. The elephant in the room is the EU.

    Right, but the UK is leaving the EU but ironically a decent chunk of it actually wants to leave the UK so it can stay in the EU! It remains to be seen if the UK will actually leave, they have been "trying to leave" for three years and Boris could do it in a month if he really wanted.


  • Options
    #107
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,174 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Mod: We have a History & Heritage forum. Please keep this thread for current affairs.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Options
    #108
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,174 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Don't discuss mod warnings on thread please.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Options
    #109
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    Byrne's proposal was to rejoin the Commonwealth - a very different thing! A sort of umbrella identity that could encompass both of the main traditions on the island. But completely independent of the UK otherwise.

    Apart from kissing the arse of which ever royal happens to be on the throne.
    I can't stand this idea that the commonwealth is all about fellowship and camaraderie. It's a hangover from the empire days, much like Northern Ireland.


  • Options
    #110
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    Apart from kissing the arse of which ever royal happens to be on the throne.
    I can't stand this idea that the commonwealth is all about fellowship and camaraderie. It's a hangover from the empire days, much like Northern Ireland.

    Maybe, but it could be a convenient vehicle to get us where we want to go. It's all about slow change and reconciliation, that's the best way to achieve this objective. Notwithstanding mod advice re history, in many ways we need to step back 100 years, absorb unionists into a new identity that is mutually acceptable and then move foward.

    The alternative is violence and forceful ejection. Who'd go for that other than crackpots?

    So find ways to build relationships and structures that accommodate unionism and then we can go on together. They're Irish just the same as most of the rest of us have some British blood, so a matter of finding a new Irish identity that all can agree on.


  • Options
    #111
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    Maybe, but it could be a convenient vehicle to get us where we want to go. It's all about slow change and reconciliation, that's the best way to achieve this objective. Notwithstanding mod advice re history, in many ways we need to step back 100 years, absorb unionists into a new identity that is mutually acceptable and then move foward.

    The alternative is violence and forceful ejection. Who'd go for that other than crackpots?

    So find ways to build relationships and structures that accommodate unionism and then we can go on together. They're Irish just the same as most of the rest of us have some British blood, so a matter of finding a new Irish identity that all can agree on.

    When we have a united Ireland I would expect any (would be technically former) unionist to be respected and have the same rights as any other Irish citizen. I don't see what else needs to be done. We have religious freedom and a democracy of sorts. We even speak English and don't mind the monarchy coming over.
    I don't recall the West Germans getting all accommodating to any East German hold outs by adopting Soviet culture. There's little point in a united Ireland that becomes more British in the process. Kind of defeats the whole point IMO.
    We could and should hold referendums on flags and anthems and the like, sure.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #112
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    It's an idea out there to help bring people together, just like there's an idea that all unionists should be brought to Larne and put on the boat..
    BarryD2 wrote: »

    Who says? - that's the old mantra that the Unionists can just 'f**k off' back to where they came from. You/ I / We want a UI - then we have to come with a different way of looking at things.
    BarryD2 wrote: »
    The alternative is violence and forceful ejection. Who'd go for that other than crackpots?.

    You are the only person on the thread coming out with this garbage. Give it a rest.


  • Options
    #113
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,488 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Unionists who are businessmen, farmers and fishermen will be seriously effected by Brexit. These are the people who will hold sway and decide the future of whether there’s a United Ireland or not I feel.


  • Options
    #114
    Drifter50
    Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭Drifter50


    pablo128 wrote: »
    I want to school in Clondalkin and had a Protestant classmate back in the 80s. Not one single person ever mentioned it to him. The only difference was he didn't have to do any of the religious classes which he was happy enough with.

    Why on earth would we have to change our flag when it already contains the colour orange?

    Do you see Muslims losing their sh1t over a holy Cross in a hospital they are attending? Why would Unionists/loyalists/Protestants be any different?

    Completely and utterly different ball game down here. In the 26 counties for the most part recently ( back to the 80`s ) catholics and protestants get along with each other. In the 6 counties tribal stuff comes out and they don`t get along and won`t. The more you try to encourage / force unionists / loyalists down this road you drive people into a cul de sac from where they will act loke cornered beasts and the trouble will kick off again. Simplistic I know but thats what will happen for sure


  • Options
    #115
    Drifter50
    Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭Drifter50


    niallers1 wrote: »
    No need to appease Unionists . Let them have a few years of Brexit and they will be begging to join the South.

    They will be treated like everybody else, no better no worse. No need to pander to them. Equality for all.

    They will never agree to be part of a United Ireland, never and to say they will is naive


  • Options
    #116
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Simon Coveney and Julian Smith calling out the DUP for blocking Stormont getting back. Seemingly its over the Petition of Concern and of course the Irish Language Act.

    From what is reported, what the DUP hope to do is have a veto on the Frontstop in four years time and obviously Coveney and Smith are not having that (just a straight vote in the Assembly).


  • Options
    #117
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Drifter50 wrote: »
    Completely and utterly different ball game down here. In the 26 counties for the most part recently ( back to the 80`s ) catholics and protestants get along with each other. In the 6 counties tribal stuff comes out and they don`t get along and won`t. The more you try to encourage / force unionists / loyalists down this road you drive people into a cul de sac from where they will act loke cornered beasts and the trouble will kick off again. Simplistic I know but thats what will happen for sure

    Nobody here is trying to encourage / force unionists / loyalists down any road. If anyone forces them down a road, they are more likely toccome from within the Union, Scotland could leave and Boris has shown that he won't let Unionist concerns get in his way.


  • Options
    #118
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Drifter50 wrote: »
    They will never agree to be part of a United Ireland, never and to say they will is naive

    It's out of their hands.


  • Options
    #119
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,488 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    It's out of their hands.

    How is it out of their hands?


  • Options
    #120
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,868 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    tayto lover wrote: »
    How is it out of their hands?

    They don't have a veto if a majority vote for a UI. That was decided in the GFA.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #121
    RoyalCelt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,535 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    Maybe, but it could be a convenient vehicle to get us where we want to go. It's all about slow change and reconciliation, that's the best way to achieve this objective. Notwithstanding mod advice re history, in many ways we need to step back 100 years, absorb unionists into a new identity that is mutually acceptable and then move foward.

    The alternative is violence and forceful ejection. Who'd go for that other than crackpots?

    So find ways to build relationships and structures that accommodate unionism and then we can go on together. They're Irish just the same as most of the rest of us have some British blood, so a matter of finding a new Irish identity that all can agree on.
    We already welcome the royals and let them march at the boyne. It's clear as day we are happy to let them do whatever the **** they want.

    If they want to celebrate battles that's resulted in them becoming refugees in the North of this island then be my guest.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement