John Delaney at the FAI Thread - (Mod Notes in OP)

19-12-2019 11:33AM

topmanamillion wrote: »

I genuinely believe if the government had written a cheque for €50 million to the FAI last year, they'd be €60 million in debt and back again for more this year. They'd tell the government giving JD a €5 million bonus and giving some dinosaur manager from the lower reaches of the English league a bumper contract was money well invested.

That type of thing is the fundamental reason they got less than the IRFU and GAA, who are both transparent well run organisations.

Absolutely agree.

The funny thing is, for all the FAI bleating about the grassroots needing money, the grassroots has managed away for the past 7 or 8 months. Obviously that cannot go on indefinitely, but the idea that the FAI itself should be bailed out because they've suddenly become interested in grassroots football now they see it as a way of keeping the whole sorry show on the road is ridiculous.

If Delaney and Conway's legacy is us being turfed out of UEFA so be it. As a taxpayer I object strongly to my money being used to prop up an organisation that still thinks it has some entitlement to "confidentiality" when it was secrecy that kept them untouchable until now.

Dots1982 · 19-12-2019 11:40AM

topmanamillion wrote: »

I genuinely believe if the government had written a cheque for €50 million to the FAI last year, they'd be €60 million in debt and back again for more this year. They'd tell the government giving JD a €5 million bonus and giving some dinosaur manager from the lower reaches of the English league a bumper contract was money well invested.

That type of thing is the fundamental reason they got less than the IRFU and GAA, who are both transparent well run organisations.

I’m not talking about throwing money at the FAI, I’m thinking of greater funding for improvement of LOI grounds so that they are more modern and less **** and hence attract families and casuals who just want a good night out. At the moment the LOI totally misses the market.

I’d be surprised if the IRFU gets more funding than the FAI to be honest. It would be an outrage if it did.

One final point; Governments don’t give money to the worthiest causes. Its a consideration only.

They give money to causes that will secure them votes.

dfx- · 19-12-2019 11:50AM

.G. wrote: »

https://twitter.com/marktigheST/status/1207388614432305152

Is it a good sign that they're learning the real basics..

Are they suggesting that it's a surprise to them that 100 year old clubs and various rebrands can rebound in the short term? Was this one of the hypothetical things that arose?

.G. · 19-12-2019 12:23PM

dfx- wrote: »

Is it a good sign that they're learning the real basics..

Are they suggesting that it's a surprise to them that 100 year old clubs and various rebrands can rebound in the short term? Was this one of the hypothetical things that arose?

I think they're just allaying fears about the LOI if the FAI go under. The clubs will be ready to go under a new banner and new association.

I don't see how things will change at the FAI as long as people from within football in Ireland who were happy with the status quo under Delaney are the ones being nominated to fill the empty board positions. Can get rid of all the gombeens currently there but it seems theres no shortage of them ready to replace them.

loyatemu · 19-12-2019 12:35PM

the league was independent until a few years ago right? presumably they could go back to that structure (maybe Kieran Lucid would be happy to assist).

Is there anyone who wouldn't be happy to see the FAI go under at this stage? If the govt is willing to put millions into Irish soccer, who would want to see that money being spent on repayments for debts run up by a corrupt regime.

Dots1982 · 19-12-2019 12:53PM

loyatemu wrote: »

the league was independent until a few years ago right? presumably they could go back to that structure (maybe Kieran Lucid would be happy to assist).

Is there anyone who wouldn't be happy to see the FAI go under at this stage? If the govt is willing to put millions into Irish soccer, who would want to see that money being spent on repayments for debts run up by a corrupt regime.

When spending the money is going to secure Ireland’s membership of UEFA & FIFA competitions then yes I think that money, though in highly regrettable circumstances, needs to be spent.

irelandrover · 19-12-2019 01:12PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

When spending the money is going to secure Ireland’s membership of UEFA & FIFA competitions then yes I think that money, though in highly regrettable circumstances, needs to be spent.

Would a better use of the funds not be to give it to the clubs to improve facilities and cover the loss of UEFA money for a few seasons.

The new FAI could then apply for membership of UEFA. Rather than pay money into the black hole of FAI debt.

MrMusician18 · 19-12-2019 01:14PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

When spending the money is going to secure Ireland’s membership of UEFA & FIFA competitions then yes I think that money, though in highly regrettable circumstances, needs to be spent.

Money needs to be spent on infrastructure, healthcare and a thousand other priorities above these soccer circuses.

Dots1982 · 19-12-2019 01:18PM

irelandrover wrote: »

Would a better use of the funds not be to give it to the clubs to improve facilities and cover the loss of UEFA money for a few seasons.

The new FAI could then apply for membership of UEFA. Rather than pay money into the black hole of FAI debt.

The main (almost only) source of income to Irish soccer is the international men’s senior team through ticket sales, sponsorship, prize money and UEFA grants. Pretty much everything else in Irish soccer works on a loss. If you just throw to the wind the only thing that makes money for a few years I doubt it’s a sensible strategy.

irelandrover · 19-12-2019 01:26PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

The main (almost only) source of income to Irish soccer is the international men’s senior team through ticket sales, sponsorship, prize money and UEFA grants. Pretty much everything else in Irish soccer works on a loss. If you just throw to the wind the only thing that makes money for a few years I doubt it’s a sensible strategy.

How long would it take to get back into UEFA for a new FAI? If it takes 4 years and the government need to fill the gap at 10 million a season then its a very sensible decision compared to plugging an 85 million debt.

I'm not saying its a good idea sincee i dont know how long it would take to get back into UEFA.

Dots1982 · 19-12-2019 01:28PM

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Money needs to be spent on infrastructure, healthcare and a thousand other priorities above these soccer circuses.

Fair enough, it is strange when we go to Irish cinemas, shopping centers, gyms, hotels that you are in modern wealthy Europe. Yet you go to most Irish stadiums you are somewhere more akin to Albania.

salmocab · 19-12-2019 01:31PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

The main (almost only) source of income to Irish soccer is the international men’s senior team through ticket sales, sponsorship, prize money and UEFA grants. Pretty much everything else in Irish soccer works on a loss. If you just throw to the wind the only thing that makes money for a few years I doubt it’s a sensible strategy.

Your working in the basis that the country needs those things to function, it doesn’t. We want it to be there and functioning but don’t need it. A sensible strategy for me is not throwing money at the problem but working out how in the long term this can be sorted so that football does well and is also well governed. If that means letting the FAI go under then I think that’s fine as they’ve done nothing to suggest they should be saved.

Dots1982 · 19-12-2019 01:31PM

irelandrover wrote: »

How long would it take to get back into UEFA for a new FAI? If it takes 4 years and the government need to fill the gap at 10 million a season then its a very sensible decision compared to plugging an 85 million debt.

I'm not saying its a good idea sincee i dont know how long it would take to get back into UEFA.

What do you mean by plugging an 80 million debt?

They will likely buy out the FAI’s share of the Aviva and rent it back to the FAI.

Scott Tenorman · 19-12-2019 01:35PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

Fair enough, it is strange when we go to Irish cinemas, shopping centers, gyms, hotels that you are in modern wealthy Europe. Yet you go to most Irish stadiums you are somewhere more akin to Albania.

These buildings weren't built with tax payers money. Neither should stadia.

yabadabado · 19-12-2019 01:53PM

Weepsie wrote: »

My memory of FAI coaches was that we used to get was they were brutal. Running, same old dribbling drills that the volunteers (someone's dad) would be doing and a bit of 5 aside.

The GAA and Rugby development coaches that go to clubs and schools are so many miles ahead of the game in that regard that they are using the funding well and not just to patch up something while something else falls apart.

Your time with FAI coaches must have been a good number of years ago or where they even FAI coaches ,as you also mention volunteers.

The development officers that are working with youth teams now are highly regarded and well trained. It would be a disaster if they were gotten rid off but that doesnt seem to be an issue from what we were told at the hearing yesterday.

What we need is more coaches with the required coaching licences but funding for that is pretty expensive and very low on the list I'd imagine at this point in time.

Dots1982 · 19-12-2019 02:26PM

salmocab wrote: »

Your working in the basis that the country needs those things to function, it doesn’t. We want it to be there and functioning but don’t need it. A sensible strategy for me is not throwing money at the problem but working out how in the long term this can be sorted so that football does well and is also well governed. If that means letting the FAI go under then I think that’s fine as they’ve done nothing to suggest they should be saved.

What a country needs in order to function is an extremely broad term of reference. Ireland doesn’t need alcohol to function but that doesn’t it mean it could.

I’d agree that what’s needed is a implementable, financed plan of how to get Irish football to be better.

Whether any realistic plan would involve standing down the sole current breadwinner on the scene is not something I’d subscribe to.

Dots1982 · 19-12-2019 02:39PM

Scott Tenorman wrote: »

These buildings weren't built with tax payers money. Neither should stadia.

Fair enough. In most European countries local authorities provide a lot of finance for stadiums as they are seen as a public good both recreationally and economically.

But if your view is this is not money well spent then that’s a fair opinion. Just expect the next 100 years of Irish soccer to encounter the same issues and stagnation as the last 100 years. I.E. we’ll still be below far smaller poorer countries on the club coefficient as Irish people spend their money following soccer in England and Scotland.

salmocab · 19-12-2019 02:40PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

What a country needs in order to function is an extremely broad term of reference. Ireland doesn’t need alcohol to function but that doesn’t it mean it could.

I’d agree that what’s needed is a implementable, financed plan of how to get Irish football to be better.

Whether any realistic plan would involve standing down the sole current breadwinner on the scene is not something I’d subscribe to.

We’re not talking of standing them down though it’s whether they should be allowed go under. If they do they can be replaced in the long run with a team that plays as part of a well run organisation. As it stands it’s a poorly run organisation with their hands out but still not willing to engage fully with the state. They won’t go to hearings, moan that Ross didn’t keep their secret and seem to think that they should just be rescued.

Dots1982 · 19-12-2019 02:44PM

salmocab wrote: »

We’re not talking of standing them down though it’s whether they should be allowed go under. If they do they can be replaced in the long run with a team that plays as part of a well run organisation. As it stands it’s a poorly run organisation with their hands out but still not willing to engage fully with the state. They won’t go to hearings, moan that Ross didn’t keep their secret and seem to think that they should just be rescued.

Any new FAI will also have their hands out to the government because if they don’t have a senior men’s international team in international competition then they have no income.

Dots1982 · 19-12-2019 02:49PM

Weepsie wrote: »

Perhaps, but it might be made up of people who have an absolute genuine interest in the future of the game here and not these d!**hea*$ who have shown time and again they don't give a sh... And just want the money to throw away again.

If they have no money to run the organization then it makes little odds what caliber of person there is in the new FAI.

Hopefully there are great people out there. Paddypower had Richie Sadler as second in the betting for the top job. I’ll say nothing more.

salmocab · 19-12-2019 02:55PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

Any new FAI will also have their hands out to the government because if they don’t have a senior men’s international team in international competition then they have no income.

Yes and I would think that the state are far more likely to give a helping hand to a completely new setup with no links to the last than to chuck millions at the black hole that currently exists. Most importantly I think the tax payer would be happier if that’s where their cash was going.

Dots1982 · 19-12-2019 03:05PM

salmocab wrote: »

Yes and I would think that the state are far more likely to give a helping hand to a completely new setup with no links to the last than to chuck millions at the black hole that currently exists. Most importantly I think the tax payer would be happier if that’s where their cash was going.

Well they’ll have to because a new FAI with a newly hired staff and rebrand with no income is going to need some seriously generous donors to get off the ground.

salmocab · 19-12-2019 03:43PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

Well they’ll have to because a new FAI with a newly hired staff and rebrand with no income is going to need some seriously generous donors to get off the ground.

It would cost less to get it off the ground than it currently owes I would think.

Dots1982 · 19-12-2019 03:47PM

salmocab wrote: »

It would cost less to get it off the ground than it currently owes I would think.

But the problem remains about who or what pays for it to get off the ground when the actual organization has no income or assets.

Irishmale0399 · 19-12-2019 04:03PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

But the problem remains about who or what pays for it to get off the ground when the actual organization has no income or assets.

Some might see it as being better than paying for the greedy b+++++ds failures. Would also ensure that new rules and regulations could be implimented ensuring that the old guard dont get back into power.

Personally I dont see it going bust but the government will allow it go to the last minute so they can insist on real change. If UEFA or FIFA dont like it....they can sort out the problem.

Scott Tenorman · 19-12-2019 04:06PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

Fair enough. In most European countries local authorities provide a lot of finance for stadiums as they are seen as a public good both recreationally and economically.

But if your view is this is not money well spent then that’s a fair opinion. Just expect the next 100 years of Irish soccer to encounter the same issues and stagnation as the last 100 years. I.E. we’ll still be below far smaller poorer countries on the club coefficient as Irish people spend their money following soccer in England and Scotland.

I don't disagree with the bolded part, i just don't think the taxpayer should be on the hook for the fact that Irish people support foreign football.

And i don't think a "build it and they will come" attitude will make that much difference to that picture.
It would be a very expensive gamble with the publics money.

Dots1982 · 19-12-2019 04:19PM

Scott Tenorman wrote: »

I don't disagree with the bolded part, i just don't think the taxpayer should be on the hook for the fact that Irish people support foreign football.

And i don't think a "build it and they will come" attitude will make that much difference to that picture.
It would be a very expensive gamble with the publics money.

That’s a totally fair point of view. At the risk of repeating myself it’s strange situation that in terms of facilities and infrastructure Ireland is on a par with Western European levels pretty much. But in terms of football stadia we lag very badly. Especially given Ireland is sports mad (in a bandwagon way albeit)

salmocab · 19-12-2019 04:23PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

But the problem remains about who or what pays for it to get off the ground when the actual organization has no income or assets.

I would argue that a new organisation with no assets or income would be in a better place with a bit of state backing to get it going initially than the mess at the moment are in (through complete fault of their own). I think the state are more likely to fund something new than throw cash at the FAI and pray that they don’t mess up again.
A new organisation is more likely to get sponsors I’d think and ultimately the players available to the international team and therefore chances of qualifying for tournaments are at least the same. It would take a long time to get it going properly, I’m not being glib about it but I’d rather soccer suffer for a few years and come back stronger than continue with the current set up and all it’s baggage for a few more years with nothing really changing.

19-12-2019 05:36PM

If the Government had gifted a new stadium with gold toilet fittings to every League of Ireland club in the country, there is no certainty:-

1. We'd see one more punter come through the turnstiles
2. The FAI wouldn't be €80 million in debt following Delaney's departure.

There is an issue to be discussed about funding the sport in Ireland. I just do not understand why it's popping up again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again from one poster on this thread. It doesn't explain or excuse the mismanagement by Delaney and the FAI, there is no suggestion whatsoever that the FAI is down €80 million because they spent it on the game here.

Irishmale0399 · 19-12-2019 05:49PM

Deleted User wrote: »

If the Government had gifted a new stadium with gold toilet fittings to every League of Ireland club in the country, there is no certainty:-

1. We'd see one more punter come through the turnstiles
2. The FAI wouldn't be €80 million in debt following Delaney's departure.

There is an issue to be discussed about funding the sport in Ireland. I just do not understand why it's popping up again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again from one poster on this thread. It doesn't explain or excuse the mismanagement by Delaney and the FAI, there is no suggestion whatsoever that the FAI is down €80 million because they spent it on the game here.

100% with you on it. We need to know where the money went over the last 15 years, who profited from it and why the government were only lobbied to build one proper ground for a LOI club which just happened to be in Dublin close to Abbottowns.

John Delaney at the FAI Thread - (Mod Notes in OP)

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