Champions Cup 2019/20

Burkie1203 · 08-12-2019 8:26pm #1

Harlequins - Ulster
Racing 92 - Ospreys

Benetton - Lyon
Leinster - Northampton Saints
Glasgow Warriors - La Rochelle
Saracens - Munster
Connacht - Gloucester
Montpellier - Toulouse

Exeter Chiefs - Sale
ASM Clermont Auvergne - Bath

Leinster [29], Exeter [29], Racing [27], Toulouse [28] & Ulster/Clermont [27/26] are in one hell of a scrap for a top 2 seeding in the QF. The max points they can achieve are in brackets, bonus points from here on are vital. If Munster do get a QF I reckon they could be going to Paris. Sarries lose this weekend and they are likely to field the sort of weakened side they sent to Paris for the R1 game in the return game in R6 which gives Racing an opportunity to go 6/6.
I expect Leinster to pick up 15 more match points. After this round quite a few teams will be gone and will be fixture fulfilment mode in January

Game of the weekend is toss up between the Ulster and Munster games, Ulster win and they should get a QF but i cant see them beating Clermont away so it will be an away trip.

R4 Predictions [Match Points in brackets]

Ulster [4]
Racing [5]
Lyon [4]
Leinster [5]
Glasgow [5]
Saracens [4] - Munster to take a point away
Connacht [4]
Toulouse [4]
Exeter [5]
Clermont [5]

QF as it stands (I think)
Leinster - Saints
Exeter - Munster
Toulouse - Clermont
Ulster - Racing

QF guess
Leinster v Glasgow
Exeter v Ulster
Racing v Munster/Sarries
Toulouse v Clermont

liosnagceann75 · 08-12-2019 9:00pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Harlequins - Ulster
Racing 92 - Ospreys

Benetton - Lyon
Leinster - Northampton Saints
Glasgow Warriors - La Rochelle
Saracens - Munster
Connacht - Gloucester
Montpellier - Toulouse

Exeter Chiefs - Sale
ASM Clermont Auvergne - Bath

Leinster [29], Exeter [29], Racing [27], Toulouse [28] & Ulster/Clermont [27/26] are in one hell of a scrap for a top 2 seeding in the QF. The max points they can achieve are in brackets, bonus points from here on are vital. If Munster do get a QF I reckon they could be going to Paris. Sarries lose this weekend and they are likely to field the sort of weakened side they sent to Paris for the R1 game in the return game in R6 which gives Racing an opportunity to go 6/6.
I expect Leinster to pick up 15 more match points. After this round quite a few teams will be gone and will be fixture fulfilment mode in January

Game of the weekend is toss up between the Ulster and Munster games, Ulster win and they should get a QF but i cant see them beating Clermont away so it will be an away trip.

R4 Predictions [Match Points in brackets]

Ulster [4]
Racing [5]
Lyon [4]
Leinster [5]
Glasgow [5]
Saracens [4] - Munster to take a point away
Connacht [4]
Toulouse [4]
Exeter [5]
Clermont [5]

QF as it stands (I think)
Leinster - Saints
Exeter - Munster
Toulouse - Clermont
Ulster - Racing

QF guess
Leinster v Glasgow
Exeter v Ulster
Racing v Munster/Sarries
Toulouse v Clermont

Can munster face racing in quarter final if they get out of the group?

Former Former · 08-12-2019 9:23pm

liosnagceann75 wrote: »

Can munster face racing in quarter final if they get out of the group?

Yes

Snickers Man · 09-12-2019 12:25am

My predictions after round 3 for the Quarter Final line ups.

Leinster v Northampton
Exeter Chiefs v Ulster
Clermont Auvergne v Saracens
Toulouse v Racing 92

Can't see Munster or Connacht making it at this stage. Glasgow might pip Northampton for last runner up slot but if it comes to tries, Northampton has an Italian team in its group.

Subject to massive change as tournament progresses.

09-12-2019 7:04am

What are the rules around home semi finals these days?

Buer · 09-12-2019 9:35am

Gianna Helpful Ham wrote: »

What are the rules around home semi finals these days?

Essentially, if a team finishes as first or second seed and wins their QF, they retain home/country advantage for the semi final regardless of results elsewhere.

KNOCKOUT STAGE
2.4 The clubs ranked 1 to 4 will have home advantage for the quarter-finals as follows:
Club 1 v Club 8 (QF1)
Club 4 v Club 5 (QF2)
Club 3 v Club 6 (QF3)
Club 2 v Club 7 (QF4)

The winner of QF1 will play the winner of QF2 in one semi-final, and the winner of QF3 will play the winner of QF4 in the other semi-final as follows:

Semi-final 1: winner QF1 v winner QF2
Semi-final 2: winner QF3 v winner QF4

09-12-2019 1:12pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

My predictions after round 3 for the Quarter Final line ups.

Leinster v Northampton
Exeter Chiefs v Ulster
Clermont Auvergne v Saracens
Toulouse v Racing 92

Can't see Munster or Connacht making it at this stage. Glasgow might pip Northampton for last runner up slot but if it comes to tries, Northampton has an Italian team in its group.

Subject to massive change as tournament progresses.

If Northampton scrape through, it will be mainly because that incompetent fool Adamson gave them a very debatable last second penalty in Treviso that Dan the Man converted for the win.

Rigor Mortis · 12-12-2019 9:23am

171170 wrote: »

If Northampton scrape through, it will be mainly because that incompetent fool Adamson gave them a very debatable last second penalty in Treviso that Dan the Man converted for the win.

True, but if you go over the six games of all of the teams who will be competing for the last spot, i guarantee you each will have benefitted in a decisive way from one or more contentious decisions.

Squidgy Black · 13-12-2019 9:48pm

Ospreys getting hammered by Racing here. TBP was secured before half time.

Dave_The_Sheep · 13-12-2019 9:51pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Ospreys getting hammered by Racing here. TBP was secured before half time.

To the surprise of absolutely no one.

13-12-2019 10:07pm

Ulster looking like real contenders in this competition. It's going to put an interesting context to the inter-pro's, especially if the other provinces win this weekend.

Those match threads should be civil and effortlessly moderated. I for one won't even be mentioning Peter O'Mahony.

RugbyLover123 · 13-12-2019 10:09pm

The ref here was the same one in the Leinster game last week. Can’t say I’ve noticed him really before last week, but he was good last week and so far this week.

Squidgy Black · 13-12-2019 10:34pm

Ospreys managed to finally pick up a point anyways after scoring 3 tries in 10 minutes. 40-27 is very flattering for them.

13-12-2019 10:44pm

If people aren't getting excited about this Ulster rugby team yet they should be. That's a brilliant performance, really classy tries and a dominant pack despite a fair smattering of errors.

Thoroughly enjoyed the game. That's one of the best centre partnerships in Europe. That's one of the best 9's in Europe and a very well drilled and motivated pack.

Some tough call coming up for Farrell. Irish rugby has responded well to the disappointment of the World Cup.

Note: I said nothing about Peter O'Mahony.

Paul Smeenus · 13-12-2019 11:12pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If people aren't getting excited about this Ulster rugby team yet they should be. That's a brilliant performance, really classy tries and a dominant pack despite a fair smattering of errors.

Thoroughly enjoyed the game. That's one of the best centre partnerships in Europe. That's one of the best 9's in Europe and a very well drilled and motivated pack.

Some tough call coming up for Farrell. Irish rugby has responded well to the disappointment of the World Cup.

Note: I said nothing about Peter O'Mahony.

Venjur, shut up and leave us alone. I know you fancy dan Leinsterites love "the attention" - we do not.

Just another half-hearted, unconvincing win that we scraped through. Ho hum.

Paul Smeenus · 13-12-2019 11:12pm

Also - stop slagging off Peter O'Mahony.

13-12-2019 11:49pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Venjur, shut up and leave us alone. I know you fancy dan Leinsterites love "the attention" - we do not.

Just another half-hearted, unconvincing win that we scraped through. Ho hum.

Burkie1203 · 14-12-2019 11:12pm

Leinster are on course for top seed. Its a 3 way fight for 2 places with Exeter and Toulouse.

QF possibility. Saints should get 5 v Benetton and could get 5 at Lyon who may just give up now.

Glasgow failure to beat La Rochelle today really has hurt their chances.

Potential QF lineup
Leinster v Saints
Exeter v Sarries
Toulouse v Ulster
Clermont v Racing

Squidgy Black · 14-12-2019 11:16pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Leinster are on course for top seed. Its a 3 way fight for 2 places with Exeter and Toulouse.

QF possibility. Saints should get 5 v Benetton and could get 5 at Lyon who may just give up now.

Glasgow failure to beat La Rochelle today really has hurt their chances.

Potential QF lineup
Leinster v Saints
Exeter v Sarries
Toulouse v Ulster
Clermont v Racing

I'd be surprised if Saints get 5 at Benetton given their European form. Especially given Saints are playing Sale and Gloucester over the Christmas break whereas Benetton have two handy games against Zebre.

ScrubsfanChris · 14-12-2019 11:18pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I'd be surprised if Saints get 5 at Benetton given their European form. Especially given Saints are playing Sale and Gloucester over the Christmas break whereas Benetton have two handy games against Zebre.

Northampton are home. Still wont be easy.

Burkie1203 · 14-12-2019 11:29pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I'd be surprised if Saints get 5 at Benetton given their European form. Especially given Saints are playing Sale and Gloucester over the Christmas break whereas Benetton have two handy games against Zebre.

Saints are at home. Benetton are out. It's also their R5 game.

pickarooney · 15-12-2019 9:53am

It's stupid if you can play against a team from your group in the QF or even the SF

15-12-2019 12:29pm

It really is all to play for going into the final two rounds.

Leinster, Ulster, Racing, Toulouse and I expect Exeter all look pretty good at this point.

There are 7 teams in the running for those final three slots and some really important fixtures the final two rounds.

Not a bad tournament this year.

Clegg · 15-12-2019 3:32pm

Play has been suspended in the Sale/Exeter due to hail. In fairness, it's pelting down in droves.

ScrubsfanChris · 15-12-2019 4:17pm

Clermont in blue and Bath in yellow. Who's idea was that? :pac:

ScrubsfanChris · 15-12-2019 4:28pm

It looked bad for Northampton early on yesterday.
This looking like Bath wishing they took a sick day.....

ScrubsfanChris · 15-12-2019 4:41pm

Clermont secure the TBP with 19:58 on the clock

Burkie1203 · 15-12-2019 4:43pm

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

Clermont secure the TBP with 19:58 on the clock

#prayforulster

ScrubsfanChris · 15-12-2019 4:55pm

Insert "simpsons he's already dead" meme here

sydthebeat · 15-12-2019 4:58pm

40 points to 7 after 34 mins

The Lost Sheep · 15-12-2019 6:09pm

pickarooney wrote: »

It's stupid if you can play against a team from your group in the QF or even the SF

it isnt stupid at all especially when you have just 5 pools and 3 runners up qualifying and quarters need be based on rankings from pool stage. If you could expand tournament then change the tournament regs for a first knockout round but not now

Leinstertomas · 15-12-2019 6:11pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It really is all to play for going into the final two rounds.

Leinster, Ulster, Racing, Toulouse and I expect Exeter all look pretty good at this point.

There are 7 teams in the running for those final three slots and some really important fixtures the final two rounds.

Not a bad tournament this year.

Think Clermont are pretty certain as well at this point. They are on 16 right now and should at least beat an uninterested Harlequins in final round which would guarantee a minimum of 20 which would be enough to go through as runner-up.

15-12-2019 6:54pm

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

Clermont in blue and Bath in yellow. Who's idea was that? :pac:

Bath decided to use their away strip which happens to be yellow - mind games from the lamentable Mike Hooper? Presumably they hoped it would stop Clermont scoring 100 points against them - which it did.

Entertaining game for 50 minutes until Clermont switched off - but Whitehouse junior really is a mediocre ref.

icdg · 15-12-2019 6:57pm

One of the real strengths of the Heineken Champions Cup is it’s self-selecting QF draw - it usually gives everyone something to play for all the way through Round 6, even if a team is assured of qualification after Round 4 (take a bow Leinster), there will always be that coveted home QF to chase or even top seeding. Compare the UEFA Champions League where a large chunk of Round 6 games are normally dead rubbers. If the price of the self selecting draw is that there might be a repeat pairing it’s a price worth paying.

thomond2006 · 15-12-2019 6:59pm

Can we please change to the French system of try bonus points: 3 more tries than the opposition. Or alternatively only award a try bonus point to the winner.

Bath get a bonus point today despite losing by 26 points. It's ridiculous.

The Lost Sheep · 15-12-2019 7:02pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Can we please change to the French system of try bonus points: 3 more tries than the opposition.

Bath get a bonus point today despite losing by 26 points. It's ridiculous.

you cant get a try bonus in defeat then in any situation and I dont see that as a good thing.

thomond2006 · 15-12-2019 7:04pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

you cant get a try bonus in defeat then in any situation and I dont see that as a good thing.

It's absolute nonsense that you can get a point despite getting hammered. It happens too much.

Want a point from a game? Don't get hammered.

The Lost Sheep · 15-12-2019 7:05pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

It's absolute nonsense that you can get a point despite getting hammered. It happens too much.

Want a point from a game? Don't get hammered.

But your proposal and French system never allows side who loses a game get a bonus points for tries scored. That is nonsense as well

Bazzo · 15-12-2019 7:06pm

Don't have an issue with the current system to be honest.

Squidgy Black · 15-12-2019 7:10pm

Have to agree with Thomond, if you lose by more than 7 points (and miss out on a LBP), then I don't see why teams should be given a point, it doesn't really matter how many tries you've scored if you've been beaten comprehensively.

The Lost Sheep · 15-12-2019 7:12pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Have to agree with Thomond, if you lose by more than 7 points (and miss out on a LBP), then I don't see why teams should be given a point, it doesn't really matter how many tries you've scored if you've been beaten comprehensively.

it allows teams to fight for something rather than just wave white flag and do nothing. What does that achieve exactly?

prawnsambo · 15-12-2019 7:12pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Have to agree with Thomond, if you lose by more than 7 points (and miss out on a LBP), then I don't see why teams should be given a point, it doesn't really matter how many tries you've scored if you've been beaten comprehensively.

You've been beaten comprehensively if you're beaten by eight points and have scored 4 tries? The difference there could be as little as missing all your conversions or a couple of penalties.

ClanofLams · 15-12-2019 7:14pm

I guess the current method keeps some interest in games when otherwise there would be none? Eg - Leinster Northampton yesterday, I didn’t see it but presume Northampton we’re trying to the last minute to get fourth try?

Games like that would be irrelevant at half time.

sydthebeat · 15-12-2019 7:15pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Can we please change to the French system of try bonus points: 3 more tries than the opposition. Or alternatively only award a try bonus point to the winner.

Bath get a bonus point today despite losing by 26 points. It's ridiculous.

100%

super rugby use that system too and its way better

pickarooney · 15-12-2019 7:21pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

it isnt stupid at all especially when you have just 5 pools and 3 runners up qualifying and quarters need be based on rankings from pool stage. If you could expand tournament then change the tournament regs for a first knockout round but not now

It's just my opinion. Do you always have to contradict everything?

Leinstertomas · 15-12-2019 7:22pm

What I don't like about the current system is the fact that a team gets more reward for getting thrashed but picking up easy tries because the game has become unstructured and the other team no longer need to play with any caution, than if they gave them an actual contest and lost by around 10 points.

thomond2006 · 15-12-2019 7:24pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

it allows teams to fight for something rather than just wave white flag and do nothing. What does that achieve exactly?

It makes a mockery of the game.

Should a team that loses by a large margin deserve anything? My opinion is no. You shouldn't earn a point for scoring tries in garbage time when the contest is over.

The Lost Sheep · 15-12-2019 7:27pm

pickarooney wrote: »

It's just my opinion. Do you always have to contradict everything?

and that was my opinion. I dont just contradict everything.
And with 5 pools if you cant play the second placed side from your pool then the competition is ridiculous and you cant have quarter finals based on rankings which wouldnt be good either

Former Former · 15-12-2019 7:31pm

It's swings and roundabouts. Sometimes you'll get teams picking up bonus points simply because the opposition are so far ahead they ease up.

But then you get teams who win the game and rack up a BP because the opposition never gave a shyte to begin with or sent out the second string. How is that different?

Or you get teams like the Ospreys this year who are an ATM for bonus points. Is it fair that the teams in their group have a guaranteed BP win even away from home?

It all balances out.

The Lost Sheep · 15-12-2019 7:34pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

It makes a mockery of the game.

Should a team that loses by a large margin deserve anything? My opinion is no. You shouldn't earn a point for scoring tries in garbage time when the contest is over.

should teams who play toe to toe and get 5 tries each and one just loses out on the win not get something then. Yes some times a side will get a bonus point like that but it's a far better rule than the French system where if you lose you cant ever get a try bp

sydthebeat · 15-12-2019 7:40pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

but it's a far better rule than the French system where if you lose you cant ever get a try bp

its not a "far better" rule

it may suit this european league, but as a domestic league system, where stopping the opposition getting a TBP is valuable to each team....
it absolutely isnt a far better system.

Ive seen super rugby switch from the standardised system to the french system (in 2016 onwards) and the quality of games improved immensely

you no longer had teams throwing in the towel after going down heavy in the first half... and you no longer had teams basically stop playing after getting 4 tries.

its probably not workable in the HC because its basically 5 separate leagues where restricting a TBP doesnt really help the losing team.... but i will argue all day that in a season long domestic league its a FAR better system than the one the Pro 14 and Premiership employ.

Champions Cup 2019/20

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