Dacia Spring

Mike9832 · 09-12-2019 7:39pm #1

Finally a car for the masses

€15,000
250km WLTP range
CCS charging
2021 launch
Sandero size

Modified version of the €7,000 Chinesse Renault City KZ-E

https://www.electrive.com/2019/12/04/renault-city-kz-e-to-come-to-europe-as-dacia/

JPA · 09-12-2019 8:14pm

Good to see this kind of thing but 33kw motor could be absolutely painful.

Silent Running · 09-12-2019 8:21pm

Top speed of 105km/h. Is that not Leafspeed?

Miscreant · 09-12-2019 8:36pm

I take the predicted price of these things with a pinch of salt nowadays with every price that has been published before launch being off by a decent margin. I highly doubt this thing will be 15k IF it even gets sold here. It'll be more like 20k and I don't see many choosing this considering the quoted range is on the NEDC cycle that is wildly optimistic and shouldn't even be used anyway and top speed is 105kph.
Will certainly be interesting to see it though but as mentioned, with that low power motor I doubt it is going to be anything more than a shopping trolley with batteries.

Gumbo · 09-12-2019 9:26pm

Silent Running wrote: »

Top speed of 105km/h. Is that not Leafspeed?

Will cover you on 99% of roads in Ireland.

09-12-2019 10:48pm

44 hp ! nearly fell of my chair laughing !!!

Sounds like something that would sell in Ireland alright. A yoke like that would get to 80 km/hr in about 30 seconds. lmao.

A 90 Hp Zoe take 14 seconds 0-100 ffs imagine this thing holding up traffic ?

cars in the 70's and 80's had this king of power but they were small and weighed feck all.

There's no need to skimp on power like that, different in the 70's and 80's where fuel had to be saved because People hadn't the cash but electricity is cheap.

44 Hp and 26 Kwh battery, that's real progress.

w124man · 09-12-2019 10:55pm

Deleted User wrote: »

44 hp ! nearly fell of my chair laughing !!!

Sounds like something that would sell in Ireland alright. A yoke like that would get to 80 km/hr in about 30 seconds. lmao.

A 90 Hp Zoe take 14 seconds 0-100 ffs imagine this thing holding up traffic ?

cars in the 70's and 80's had this king of power but they were small and weighed feck all.

There's no need to skimp on power like that, different in the 70's and 80's where fuel had to be saved because People hadn't the cash but electricity is cheap.

44 Hp and 26 Kwh battery, that's real progress.

Perfect for Dublin traffic

Del2005 · 09-12-2019 11:02pm

w124man wrote: »

Perfect for Dublin traffic

A motorbike is perfect for city traffic, an electric one would be better again.

eddhorse · 09-12-2019 11:09pm

I think we are forgetting that people wanted cheaper EVs. Has to be lots of options.

Hellrazer · 09-12-2019 11:26pm

If they can do them at 15k they will sell by the bucket load just like the Duster when it was released.

tabby aspreme · 09-12-2019 11:35pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A 90 Hp Zoe take 14 seconds 0-100 ffs imagine this thing holding up traffic ?

cars in the 70's and 80's had this king of power but they were small and weighed feck all.

There's no need to skimp on power like that, different in the 70's and 80's where fuel had to be saved because People hadn't the cash but electricity is cheap.

44 Hp and 26 Kwh battery, that's real progress.

Isn't the idea of ev's to save fuel, there is still a lot of electricity being generated with fossil fuel

Joseph SEE · 09-12-2019 11:46pm

A lot of assumptions made here.

That article doesn't mention the peak KW output or the max speed of the car coming to Europe. It only states it expects to retail for 10k Euro in Germany with an WLTP of 250km.

All other specs are based on the Chinese car. We have no idea what will make it's way here.

11-12-2019 1:11pm

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Isn't the idea of ev's to save fuel, there is still a lot of electricity being generated with fossil fuel

There is plenty of electricity being generated by fossil fuels correct but there is also a lot of energy used in the refinement of petrol and diesel and electric cars use this energy much more efficiently than any ICE. + days/nights we have plenty of wind production this can be used to charge electric cars, currently the grid can take up to 75% wind capacity up from 65% last year and probably much of this year so when all these cars are plugged in and we have a windy night up to 75% of the Islands electricity can come from wind.

Cars in the past were slow to save fuel, and cars were smaller on average than today + they were a lot lighter but they were still slow and much less refined and it was once thought mad to put more than 50 Hp in any car.

It was not so long ago it was inconceivable to put a turbo in a diesel Van, it was accepted that they were to be as slow and as obnoxious to drive as possible, it's only in 2001 when VW decided to turbo charge the caddy van, before it was a terrible yoke to drive as many vans were of the time

Now lets come to 2020 you could say, electricity is cheap, electric motors are much cheaper to make, apart from the battery so there is no real valid excuse to limit power to electric cars so much and in fact I would call 40 hp in a heavy car a danger on the road, slow and can't over take and always having queues of traffic behind on a bad road.

ELM327 · 11-12-2019 1:24pm

That level of hp/kW is nonsense.
Probably sell really well here, paddy loves a slow bargain

Mike9832 · 11-12-2019 1:30pm

ELM327 wrote: »

That level of hp/kW is nonsense.
Probably sell really well here, paddy loves a slow bargain

It will be a modified version here, won't be the same as chinese one, wouldn't pass ncap and all those things

I'd guess

60kW/80bhp motor ( 12-13 secs to 100 )
Similar 30kWh battery
40-50kW CCS charging

VW e-Up specs but in a bigger car and for alot less €

11-12-2019 2:12pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

It will be a modified version here, won't be the same as chinese one, wouldn't pass ncap and all those things

I'd guess

60kW/80bhp motor ( 12-13 secs to 100 )
Similar 30kWh battery
40-50kW CCS charging

VW e-Up specs but in a bigger car and for alot less €

That looks a fair bit larger than a Zoe and that gets 0-100 in 14 seconds with 90 Hp, I'd say you're talking more like 18-20 seconds with 80 Hp.

Joseph SEE · 11-12-2019 2:44pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That looks a fair bit larger than a Zoe and that gets 0-100 in 14 seconds with 90 Hp, I'd say you're talking more like 18-20 seconds with 80 Hp.

Zoe is a little under 4.1m long. The Renault K-Ze is just over 3.7m. Zoe 50 weighs a bit under 1.5 tonnes. The Chinese car weighs 920kg. It's an awful lot lighter and a lot smaller than the Zoe. There's no comparison. The Zoe is arguably a B segment car. This is a small A segment car.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/renault/zoe/106673/new-renault-k-ze-2019-review

Mike9832 · 11-12-2019 3:42pm

Joseph SEE wrote: »

Zoe is a little under 4.1m long. The Renault K-Ze is just over 3.7m. Zoe 50 weighs a bit under 1.5 tonnes. The Chinese car weighs 920kg. It's an awful lot lighter and a lot smaller than the Zoe. There's no comparison. The Zoe is arguably a B segment car. This is a small A segment car.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/renault/zoe/106673/new-renault-k-ze-2019-review

Won't have any of that regenerative braking, fancy tablet crap either

4 wheels, battery and electric motor, how it should be

Mickeroo · 11-12-2019 3:43pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

Won't have any of that regenerative braking, fancy tablet crap either

4 wheels, battery and electric motor, how it should be

Why is no regenerative braking "how it should be"?

charlieIRL · 11-12-2019 3:45pm

If its smaller and lighter than a Zoe then there's no way I'd drive it outside a city!!

Joseph SEE · 11-12-2019 3:50pm

Mickeroo wrote: »

Why is no regenerative braking "how it should be"?

Isn't in the Chinese version according to the article which cites added expense. I'm not sure where the costs arise. The motor is already there. Maybe the controller isn't specced to handle charge current.

The only thing we can be almost certain about is the dimensions will remain the same for the European version. Everything else could change.

Mickeroo · 11-12-2019 3:51pm

Joseph SEE wrote: »

Isn't in the Chinese version according to the article which sites added expense. I'm not sure where the costs arise. The motor is already there. Maybe the controller isn't specced to handle charge current.

The only thing we can be almost certain about is the dimensions will remain the same for the European version. Everything else could change.

Not disputing that, i'm just curious why Mike thinks it's preferable to not make full use of the motor.

Joseph SEE · 11-12-2019 3:58pm

charlieIRL wrote: »

If its smaller and lighter than a Zoe then there's no way I'd drive it outside a city!!

Nearly all fossil B segment cars are going to be a lot lighter than the Zoe.

This is an A segment car. Of course it's going to be lighter and smaller. Think VW and Mitsubishi triplets. It's going to be aimed at city drivers, like all cars in this segment.

Joseph SEE · 11-12-2019 4:00pm

Mickeroo wrote: »

Not disputing that, i'm just curious why Mike thinks it's preferable to not make full use of the motor.

Fair enough and I agree. No regen would be a poor choice.

ELM327 · 11-12-2019 4:02pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

Won't have any of that regenerative braking, fancy tablet crap either

4 wheels, battery and electric motor, how it should be

The zoe hasnt much regen to speak of either

Mike9832 · 11-12-2019 4:05pm

Mickeroo wrote: »

Why is no regenerative braking "how it should be"?

Adds cost and complexity, brake and accelerate all I need

Mike9832 · 11-12-2019 4:07pm

charlieIRL wrote: »

If its smaller and lighter than a Zoe then there's no way I'd drive it outside a city!!

Zoe is a tank

1460kg

Anything over 1200kg is a heavy car imo

11-12-2019 4:08pm

Joseph SEE wrote: »

Nearly all fossil B segment cars are going to be a lot lighter than the Zoe.

This is an A segment car. Of course it's going to be lighter and smaller. Think VW and Mitsubishi triplets. It's going to be aimed at city drivers, like all cars in this segment.

And Ireland is full of city cars doing big mileage including my i3 however at least I can accelerate when I need on a country lane or get out of a dangerous situation when I put the foot down or actually pull out at a busy junction.

There is no need or justification for such a horribly under powered car, we all know if this sells dirt cheap Ireland will be littered with this rubbish and there's be plenty of annoyed cars behind these cars blocking the roads and going painfully slow on the motorways.

Does the e-up really charge in 9 hrs ? hardly ?

Mickeroo · 11-12-2019 4:15pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

Adds cost and complexity, brake and accelerate all I need

It is on your hole :pac: You've talked yourself out of much better EVs for much less reasonable things than that.

charlieIRL · 11-12-2019 4:17pm

ELM327 wrote: »

The zoe hasnt much regen to speak of either

Its much better than my eGolf.

I can drive in and around Tullamore and get back to the office with more kms than what i started with if I drive it right and in Eco mode.

I haven't noticed any difference in range etc. when I use any of the 3 "D" modes or "B" mode in the eGolf - all "B" is any good for is when driving through town.

Joseph SEE · 11-12-2019 5:47pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And Ireland is full of city cars doing big mileage including my i3 however at least I can accelerate when I need on a country lane or get out of a dangerous situation when I put the foot down or actually pull out at a busy junction.

There is no need or justification for such a horribly under powered car, we all know if this sells dirt cheap Ireland will be littered with this rubbish and there's be plenty of annoyed cars behind these cars blocking the roads and going painfully slow on the motorways.

Does the e-up really charge in 9 hrs ? hardly ?

Yes, but we don't know the spec of the car that will reach us. Those are the specs of the Chinese version. All we can be reasonably sure of at the moment is the dimensions and appearance of the car.

We have no idea what the peak output of the European car will be. It may indeed be the same performance spec as the Chinese car, but we don't know that yet.

unkel · 11-12-2019 7:44pm

Silent Running wrote: »

Top speed of 105km/h. Is that not Leafspeed?

LeafSpeed is just 88km/h (100 km/h indicated)

KCross · 11-12-2019 8:26pm

unkel wrote: »

LeafSpeed is just 88km/h (100 km/h indicated)

The Leaf over reads by 5-8km/h depending on speed.

e.g
128=120
64=60

Dardania · 12-12-2019 9:26am

As a test, today I tried limiting my power usage in the Leaf to 30kW. It's about 4 white circles. It seemed fine in practice- not great acceleration for sure but I was keeping up just fine in traffic on the M50 and N7.
Admittedly I didn't get over an indicated 90kmh due to traffic volume, but as a test it seemed to indicate 30kW would be adequate for now.
Will see what traffic is like on the way home.

12-12-2019 11:51am

Dardania wrote: »

As a test, today I tried limiting my power usage in the Leaf to 30kW. It's about 4 white circles. It seemed fine in practice- not great acceleration for sure but I was keeping up just fine in traffic on the M50 and N7.
Admittedly I didn't get over an indicated 90kmh due to traffic volume, but as a test it seemed to indicate 30kW would be adequate for now.
Will see what traffic is like on the way home.

The problem in Ireland is that you'd have tonnes of people buying this car that drive long distance, motorways, off peak driving etc and these under powered vehicles are dangerous in my opinion.

How on Earth anyone would even want to drive a car like this is beyond me.

If someone wants cheap then buy a 2nd hand Yaris and spend money on petrol, it won't accelerate fast but a lot faster than that pile of junk dacia ev it's outrageous in this day and age and it doesn't even have regen lol.

Lumen · 12-12-2019 12:14pm

Deleted User wrote: »

...these under powered vehicles are dangerous in my opinion

Sustainable motoring!

The Dacia is probably around 30bhp/tonne.

This is what you get with 20bhp/tonne (12bhp, 600kg).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGIwvoLPoAU

12-12-2019 12:29pm

Lumen wrote: »

Sustainable motoring!

The Dacia is probably around 30bhp/tonne.

This is what you get with 20bhp/tonne (12bhp, 600kg).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGIwvoLPoAU

The dacia doesn't have a gearbox which helps greatly with lower power.

There is still no excusing the shockingly low power.

Sustainable motoring would mean using older cars longer,

Mike9832 · 12-12-2019 12:53pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The problem in Ireland is that you'd have tonnes of people buying this car that drive long distance, motorways, off peak driving etc and these under powered vehicles are dangerous in my opinion.

How on Earth anyone would even want to drive a car like this is beyond me.

If someone wants cheap then buy a 2nd hand Yaris and spend money on petrol, it won't accelerate fast but a lot faster than that pile of junk dacia ev it's outrageous in this day and age and it doesn't even have regen lol.

Dacia will be way quicker

Most change at 2000-3000rpm in petrol's, in a little Yaris 1.0 that will be 30kW/40bhp at most with little torque

Dacai will have loads of torque all the time

12-12-2019 2:19pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

Dacia will be way quicker

Most change at 2000-3000rpm in petrol's, in a little Yaris 1.0 that will be 30kW/40bhp at most with little torque

Dacai will have loads of torque all the time

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

KCross · 17-10-2020 6:02pm

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/dacia/109132/new-2021-dacia-spring-revealed-europes-cheapest-electric-car

Spec is still woeful.... 43bhp motor, DC charging is optional and even then only 30kW max.... but I guess the target market is city car so thats probably ok.

200km+ range... that 43bhp makes that achievable I guess.

If the price is right, what about it!

Nikki did mention that there is no plan for it in the UK so that would scupper it for RHD Ireland as well I'd say.

Black_Knight · 17-10-2020 7:00pm

KCross wrote: »

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/dacia/109132/new-2021-dacia-spring-revealed-europes-cheapest-electric-car

Spec is still woeful.... 43bhp motor, DC charging is optional and even then only 30kW max.... but I guess the target market is city car so thats probably ok.

200km+ range... that 43bhp makes that achievable I guess.

If the price is right, what about it!

Nikki did mention that there is no plan for it in the UK so that would scupper it for RHD Ireland as well I'd say.

If it's 15k euro it'll sell. Think of those buying old leafs currently. It'd be like that, but with more range. DC charging at 30kW is a bit muck. It'd want to be a cheap optional. What does 15k get you in terms of a new city car currently?

ted1 · 17-10-2020 7:02pm

Silent Running wrote: »

Top speed of 105km/h. Is that not Leafspeed?

As a city car it’s perfect for mist people who don’t leave Dublin. It’ll suit many people

ted1 · 17-10-2020 7:04pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

44 hp ! nearly fell of my chair laughing !!!

Sounds like something that would sell in Ireland alright. A yoke like that would get to 80 km/hr in about 30 seconds. lmao.

A 90 Hp Zoe take 14 seconds 0-100 ffs imagine this thing holding up traffic ?

cars in the 70's and 80's had this king of power but they were small and weighed feck all.

There's no need to skimp on power like that, different in the 70's and 80's where fuel had to be saved because People hadn't the cash but electricity is cheap.

44 Hp and 26 Kwh battery, that's real progress.

What does a micra do? Mightn’t be for you.

Mr Q · 17-10-2020 7:06pm

ted1 wrote: »

As a city car it’s perfect for mist people who don’t leave Dublin. It’ll suit many people

Top speed is up to 125 km/h for the Dacia version. Might take a while to get there but at least it will do it

ted1 · 17-10-2020 7:08pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And Ireland is full of city cars doing big mileage including my i3 however at least I can accelerate when I need on a country lane or get out of a dangerous situation when I put the foot down or actually pull out at a busy junction.

There is no need or justification for such a horribly under powered car, we all know if this sells dirt cheap Ireland will be littered with this rubbish and there's be plenty of annoyed cars behind these cars blocking the roads and going painfully slow on the motorways.

Does the e-up really charge in 9 hrs ? hardly ?

The limits I’d Dublin City is 30km, 50km in the suburbs with a few roads being 80. You don’t get over 100 till you leave the M50. Many people don’t.

17-10-2020 7:26pm

ted1 wrote: »

The limits I’d Dublin City is 30km, 50km in the suburbs with a few roads being 80. You don’t get over 100 till you leave the M50. Many people don’t.

It's shocking that Dacia feel the only way to make an EV cheap is to give it such little power.......

Irish People will buy it because it's cheap and drive it on the motorways in the middle lane.

innrain · 17-10-2020 7:26pm

Black_Knight wrote: »

What does 15k get you in terms of a new city car currently?

Toyota Aygo, Hyundai I10, Citroen C1 and that"s about it. New driver or retirement car

liamog · 17-10-2020 7:37pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It's shocking that Dacia feel the only way to make an EV cheap is to give it such little power.......

Irish People will buy it because it's cheap and drive it on the motorways in the middle lane.

I think Dacia know their market, there's plenty of cars on the road with piddly engines that sell well enough to people who don't care.

KCross · 17-10-2020 7:58pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It's shocking that Dacia feel the only way to make an EV cheap is to give it such little power.......

My guess is that the low power is to do with getting a good WLTP range from it, nothing to do with making it cheap.

The cheap is by making DC charging optional and I'm sure the interior will be spartan.

17-10-2020 8:17pm

KCross wrote: »

My guess is that the low power is to do with getting a good WLTP range from it, nothing to do with making it cheap.

The cheap is by making DC charging optional and I'm sure the interior will be spartan.

You mean DC is optional ? seriously ? haha wow, just when you think it can't get any worse.

Remember the fluence ? that died because there was no DC charging.

Spartan interior I've no issue with, in fact I think it's great for the non tech driver, many will struggle to set charging timers and big screens are a distraction.

innrain · 18-10-2020 10:01am

Dacia was always the cheapest brand in Europe. In fact Renault didn't intend to market this brand to Western Europe. Their first car (after Renault purchase) started at under 6k and was intended for Eastern Europe, Russia, Africa and Middle East. However, it proved a big hit and spread to Latin America. Around 2008 - 2009 few western countries had generous scrappage programs (DE -2500, AT-1500...) which made the Logan to be sold at less than 4k. So the demand brought this 3rd world brand to western countries. I suppose now they want to experiment something similar.
Spartan is probably easy put. I've read a review about the Logan saying that it was build on the same platform as Clio but with 50% less parts

Expect the same from Spring which would cost 50% less than Zoe.

Dacia Spring

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