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    #2
    JPA
    Registered Users Posts: 13,758 ✭✭✭✭JPA


    Good to see this kind of thing but 33kw motor could be absolutely painful.


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    #3
    Silent Running
    Registered Users Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭Silent Running


    Top speed of 105km/h. Is that not Leafspeed?


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    #4
    Miscreant
    Registered Users Posts: 2,197 ✭✭✭Miscreant


    I take the predicted price of these things with a pinch of salt nowadays with every price that has been published before launch being off by a decent margin. I highly doubt this thing will be 15k IF it even gets sold here. It'll be more like 20k and I don't see many choosing this considering the quoted range is on the NEDC cycle that is wildly optimistic and shouldn't even be used anyway and top speed is 105kph.
    Will certainly be interesting to see it though but as mentioned, with that low power motor I doubt it is going to be anything more than a shopping trolley with batteries.


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    #5
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,435 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Silent Running wrote: »
    Top speed of 105km/h. Is that not Leafspeed?

    Will cover you on 99% of roads in Ireland.


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    #6
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    44 hp ! nearly fell of my chair laughing !!!

    Sounds like something that would sell in Ireland alright. A yoke like that would get to 80 km/hr in about 30 seconds. lmao.

    A 90 Hp Zoe take 14 seconds 0-100 ffs imagine this thing holding up traffic ?

    cars in the 70's and 80's had this king of power but they were small and weighed feck all.

    There's no need to skimp on power like that, different in the 70's and 80's where fuel had to be saved because People hadn't the cash but electricity is cheap.

    44 Hp and 26 Kwh battery, that's real progress.


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    #7
    w124man
    Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭w124man


    Deleted User wrote: »
    44 hp ! nearly fell of my chair laughing !!!

    Sounds like something that would sell in Ireland alright. A yoke like that would get to 80 km/hr in about 30 seconds. lmao.

    A 90 Hp Zoe take 14 seconds 0-100 ffs imagine this thing holding up traffic ?

    cars in the 70's and 80's had this king of power but they were small and weighed feck all.

    There's no need to skimp on power like that, different in the 70's and 80's where fuel had to be saved because People hadn't the cash but electricity is cheap.

    44 Hp and 26 Kwh battery, that's real progress.

    Perfect for Dublin traffic


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    #8
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,871 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    w124man wrote: »
    Perfect for Dublin traffic

    A motorbike is perfect for city traffic, an electric one would be better again.


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    #9
    eddhorse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,780 ✭✭✭eddhorse


    I think we are forgetting that people wanted cheaper EVs. Has to be lots of options.


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    #10
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,579 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    If they can do them at 15k they will sell by the bucket load just like the Duster when it was released.


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    #11
    tabby aspreme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,850 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    A 90 Hp Zoe take 14 seconds 0-100 ffs imagine this thing holding up traffic ?

    cars in the 70's and 80's had this king of power but they were small and weighed feck all.

    There's no need to skimp on power like that, different in the 70's and 80's where fuel had to be saved because People hadn't the cash but electricity is cheap.

    44 Hp and 26 Kwh battery, that's real progress.

    Isn't the idea of ev's to save fuel, there is still a lot of electricity being generated with fossil fuel


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    #12
    Joseph SEE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 108 ✭✭Joseph SEE


    A lot of assumptions made here.

    That article doesn't mention the peak KW output or the max speed of the car coming to Europe. It only states it expects to retail for 10k Euro in Germany with an WLTP of 250km.

    All other specs are based on the Chinese car. We have no idea what will make it's way here.


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    #13
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    tabby aspreme wrote: »
    Isn't the idea of ev's to save fuel, there is still a lot of electricity being generated with fossil fuel

    There is plenty of electricity being generated by fossil fuels correct but there is also a lot of energy used in the refinement of petrol and diesel and electric cars use this energy much more efficiently than any ICE. + days/nights we have plenty of wind production this can be used to charge electric cars, currently the grid can take up to 75% wind capacity up from 65% last year and probably much of this year so when all these cars are plugged in and we have a windy night up to 75% of the Islands electricity can come from wind.

    Cars in the past were slow to save fuel, and cars were smaller on average than today + they were a lot lighter but they were still slow and much less refined and it was once thought mad to put more than 50 Hp in any car.

    It was not so long ago it was inconceivable to put a turbo in a diesel Van, it was accepted that they were to be as slow and as obnoxious to drive as possible, it's only in 2001 when VW decided to turbo charge the caddy van, before it was a terrible yoke to drive as many vans were of the time

    Now lets come to 2020 you could say, electricity is cheap, electric motors are much cheaper to make, apart from the battery so there is no real valid excuse to limit power to electric cars so much and in fact I would call 40 hp in a heavy car a danger on the road, slow and can't over take and always having queues of traffic behind on a bad road.


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    #14
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,358 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    That level of hp/kW is nonsense.
    Probably sell really well here, paddy loves a slow bargain


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    #15
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    ELM327 wrote: »
    That level of hp/kW is nonsense.
    Probably sell really well here, paddy loves a slow bargain

    It will be a modified version here, won't be the same as chinese one, wouldn't pass ncap and all those things

    I'd guess

    60kW/80bhp motor ( 12-13 secs to 100 )
    Similar 30kWh battery
    40-50kW CCS charging

    VW e-Up specs but in a bigger car and for alot less €


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    #16
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mike9832 wrote: »
    It will be a modified version here, won't be the same as chinese one, wouldn't pass ncap and all those things

    I'd guess

    60kW/80bhp motor ( 12-13 secs to 100 )
    Similar 30kWh battery
    40-50kW CCS charging

    VW e-Up specs but in a bigger car and for alot less €

    That looks a fair bit larger than a Zoe and that gets 0-100 in 14 seconds with 90 Hp, I'd say you're talking more like 18-20 seconds with 80 Hp.


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    #17
    Joseph SEE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 108 ✭✭Joseph SEE


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    That looks a fair bit larger than a Zoe and that gets 0-100 in 14 seconds with 90 Hp, I'd say you're talking more like 18-20 seconds with 80 Hp.

    Zoe is a little under 4.1m long. The Renault K-Ze is just over 3.7m. Zoe 50 weighs a bit under 1.5 tonnes. The Chinese car weighs 920kg. It's an awful lot lighter and a lot smaller than the Zoe. There's no comparison. The Zoe is arguably a B segment car. This is a small A segment car.

    https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/renault/zoe/106673/new-renault-k-ze-2019-review


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    #18
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    Joseph SEE wrote: »
    Zoe is a little under 4.1m long. The Renault K-Ze is just over 3.7m. Zoe 50 weighs a bit under 1.5 tonnes. The Chinese car weighs 920kg. It's an awful lot lighter and a lot smaller than the Zoe. There's no comparison. The Zoe is arguably a B segment car. This is a small A segment car.

    https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/renault/zoe/106673/new-renault-k-ze-2019-review

    Won't have any of that regenerative braking, fancy tablet crap either

    4 wheels, battery and electric motor, how it should be


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    #19
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,134 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Mike9832 wrote: »
    Won't have any of that regenerative braking, fancy tablet crap either

    4 wheels, battery and electric motor, how it should be

    Why is no regenerative braking "how it should be"?


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    #20
    charlieIRL
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,190 Mod ✭✭✭✭charlieIRL


    If its smaller and lighter than a Zoe then there's no way I'd drive it outside a city!!


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    #21
    Joseph SEE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 108 ✭✭Joseph SEE


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    Why is no regenerative braking "how it should be"?

    Isn't in the Chinese version according to the article which cites added expense. I'm not sure where the costs arise. The motor is already there. Maybe the controller isn't specced to handle charge current.

    The only thing we can be almost certain about is the dimensions will remain the same for the European version. Everything else could change.


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    #22
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,134 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Joseph SEE wrote: »
    Isn't in the Chinese version according to the article which sites added expense. I'm not sure where the costs arise. The motor is already there. Maybe the controller isn't specced to handle charge current.

    The only thing we can be almost certain about is the dimensions will remain the same for the European version. Everything else could change.

    Not disputing that, i'm just curious why Mike thinks it's preferable to not make full use of the motor.


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    #23
    Joseph SEE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 108 ✭✭Joseph SEE


    charlieIRL wrote: »
    If its smaller and lighter than a Zoe then there's no way I'd drive it outside a city!!

    Nearly all fossil B segment cars are going to be a lot lighter than the Zoe.

    This is an A segment car. Of course it's going to be lighter and smaller. Think VW and Mitsubishi triplets. It's going to be aimed at city drivers, like all cars in this segment.


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    #24
    Joseph SEE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 108 ✭✭Joseph SEE


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    Not disputing that, i'm just curious why Mike thinks it's preferable to not make full use of the motor.

    Fair enough and I agree. No regen would be a poor choice.


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    #25
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,358 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Mike9832 wrote: »
    Won't have any of that regenerative braking, fancy tablet crap either

    4 wheels, battery and electric motor, how it should be
    The zoe hasnt much regen to speak of either ;)


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    #26
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    Why is no regenerative braking "how it should be"?

    Adds cost and complexity, brake and accelerate all I need


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    #27
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    charlieIRL wrote: »
    If its smaller and lighter than a Zoe then there's no way I'd drive it outside a city!!

    Zoe is a tank

    1460kg

    Anything over 1200kg is a heavy car imo


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    #28
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Joseph SEE wrote: »
    Nearly all fossil B segment cars are going to be a lot lighter than the Zoe.

    This is an A segment car. Of course it's going to be lighter and smaller. Think VW and Mitsubishi triplets. It's going to be aimed at city drivers, like all cars in this segment.

    And Ireland is full of city cars doing big mileage including my i3 however at least I can accelerate when I need on a country lane or get out of a dangerous situation when I put the foot down or actually pull out at a busy junction.

    There is no need or justification for such a horribly under powered car, we all know if this sells dirt cheap Ireland will be littered with this rubbish and there's be plenty of annoyed cars behind these cars blocking the roads and going painfully slow on the motorways.

    Does the e-up really charge in 9 hrs ? hardly ?


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    #29
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,134 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Mike9832 wrote: »
    Adds cost and complexity, brake and accelerate all I need

    It is on your hole :pac: You've talked yourself out of much better EVs for much less reasonable things than that.


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    #30
    charlieIRL
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,190 Mod ✭✭✭✭charlieIRL


    ELM327 wrote: »
    The zoe hasnt much regen to speak of either ;)

    Its much better than my eGolf.

    I can drive in and around Tullamore and get back to the office with more kms than what i started with if I drive it right and in Eco mode.

    I haven't noticed any difference in range etc. when I use any of the 3 "D" modes or "B" mode in the eGolf - all "B" is any good for is when driving through town.


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    #31
    Joseph SEE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 108 ✭✭Joseph SEE


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    And Ireland is full of city cars doing big mileage including my i3 however at least I can accelerate when I need on a country lane or get out of a dangerous situation when I put the foot down or actually pull out at a busy junction.

    There is no need or justification for such a horribly under powered car, we all know if this sells dirt cheap Ireland will be littered with this rubbish and there's be plenty of annoyed cars behind these cars blocking the roads and going painfully slow on the motorways.

    Does the e-up really charge in 9 hrs ? hardly ?

    Yes, but we don't know the spec of the car that will reach us. Those are the specs of the Chinese version. All we can be reasonably sure of at the moment is the dimensions and appearance of the car.

    We have no idea what the peak output of the European car will be. It may indeed be the same performance spec as the Chinese car, but we don't know that yet.


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