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Dacia Spring

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    #32
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,845 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Silent Running wrote: »
    Top speed of 105km/h. Is that not Leafspeed?

    LeafSpeed is just 88km/h (100 km/h indicated)


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    #33
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,072 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    unkel wrote: »
    LeafSpeed is just 88km/h (100 km/h indicated)

    The Leaf over reads by 5-8km/h depending on speed.

    e.g
    128=120
    64=60


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    #34
    Dardania
    Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Dardania


    As a test, today I tried limiting my power usage in the Leaf to 30kW. It's about 4 white circles. It seemed fine in practice- not great acceleration for sure but I was keeping up just fine in traffic on the M50 and N7.
    Admittedly I didn't get over an indicated 90kmh due to traffic volume, but as a test it seemed to indicate 30kW would be adequate for now.
    Will see what traffic is like on the way home.


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    #35
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Dardania wrote: »
    As a test, today I tried limiting my power usage in the Leaf to 30kW. It's about 4 white circles. It seemed fine in practice- not great acceleration for sure but I was keeping up just fine in traffic on the M50 and N7.
    Admittedly I didn't get over an indicated 90kmh due to traffic volume, but as a test it seemed to indicate 30kW would be adequate for now.
    Will see what traffic is like on the way home.

    The problem in Ireland is that you'd have tonnes of people buying this car that drive long distance, motorways, off peak driving etc and these under powered vehicles are dangerous in my opinion.

    How on Earth anyone would even want to drive a car like this is beyond me.

    If someone wants cheap then buy a 2nd hand Yaris and spend money on petrol, it won't accelerate fast but a lot faster than that pile of junk dacia ev it's outrageous in this day and age and it doesn't even have regen lol.


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    #36
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,013 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Deleted User wrote: »
    ...these under powered vehicles are dangerous in my opinion

    Sustainable motoring!

    The Dacia is probably around 30bhp/tonne.

    This is what you get with 20bhp/tonne (12bhp, 600kg).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGIwvoLPoAU


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    #37
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Lumen wrote: »
    Sustainable motoring!

    The Dacia is probably around 30bhp/tonne.

    This is what you get with 20bhp/tonne (12bhp, 600kg).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGIwvoLPoAU

    The dacia doesn't have a gearbox which helps greatly with lower power.

    There is still no excusing the shockingly low power.

    Sustainable motoring would mean using older cars longer, ;)


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    #38
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The problem in Ireland is that you'd have tonnes of people buying this car that drive long distance, motorways, off peak driving etc and these under powered vehicles are dangerous in my opinion.

    How on Earth anyone would even want to drive a car like this is beyond me.

    If someone wants cheap then buy a 2nd hand Yaris and spend money on petrol, it won't accelerate fast but a lot faster than that pile of junk dacia ev it's outrageous in this day and age and it doesn't even have regen lol.

    Dacia will be way quicker

    Most change at 2000-3000rpm in petrol's, in a little Yaris 1.0 that will be 30kW/40bhp at most with little torque

    Dacai will have loads of torque all the time


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    #39
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mike9832 wrote: »
    Dacia will be way quicker

    Most change at 2000-3000rpm in petrol's, in a little Yaris 1.0 that will be 30kW/40bhp at most with little torque

    Dacai will have loads of torque all the time

    :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D


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    #40
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,072 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/dacia/109132/new-2021-dacia-spring-revealed-europes-cheapest-electric-car




    Spec is still woeful.... 43bhp motor, DC charging is optional and even then only 30kW max.... but I guess the target market is city car so thats probably ok.

    200km+ range... that 43bhp makes that achievable I guess.

    If the price is right, what about it!

    Nikki did mention that there is no plan for it in the UK so that would scupper it for RHD Ireland as well I'd say.


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    #41
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,367 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    KCross wrote: »
    https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/dacia/109132/new-2021-dacia-spring-revealed-europes-cheapest-electric-car




    Spec is still woeful.... 43bhp motor, DC charging is optional and even then only 30kW max.... but I guess the target market is city car so thats probably ok.

    200km+ range... that 43bhp makes that achievable I guess.

    If the price is right, what about it!

    Nikki did mention that there is no plan for it in the UK so that would scupper it for RHD Ireland as well I'd say.

    If it's 15k euro it'll sell. Think of those buying old leafs currently. It'd be like that, but with more range. DC charging at 30kW is a bit muck. It'd want to be a cheap optional. What does 15k get you in terms of a new city car currently?


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    #42
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Silent Running wrote: »
    Top speed of 105km/h. Is that not Leafspeed?

    As a city car it’s perfect for mist people who don’t leave Dublin. It’ll suit many people


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    #43
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    44 hp ! nearly fell of my chair laughing !!!

    Sounds like something that would sell in Ireland alright. A yoke like that would get to 80 km/hr in about 30 seconds. lmao.

    A 90 Hp Zoe take 14 seconds 0-100 ffs imagine this thing holding up traffic ?

    cars in the 70's and 80's had this king of power but they were small and weighed feck all.

    There's no need to skimp on power like that, different in the 70's and 80's where fuel had to be saved because People hadn't the cash but electricity is cheap.

    44 Hp and 26 Kwh battery, that's real progress.

    What does a micra do? Mightn’t be for you.


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    #44
    Mr Q
    Registered Users Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Mr Q


    ted1 wrote: »
    As a city car it’s perfect for mist people who don’t leave Dublin. It’ll suit many people

    Top speed is up to 125 km/h for the Dacia version. Might take a while to get there but at least it will do it


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    #45
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    And Ireland is full of city cars doing big mileage including my i3 however at least I can accelerate when I need on a country lane or get out of a dangerous situation when I put the foot down or actually pull out at a busy junction.

    There is no need or justification for such a horribly under powered car, we all know if this sells dirt cheap Ireland will be littered with this rubbish and there's be plenty of annoyed cars behind these cars blocking the roads and going painfully slow on the motorways.

    Does the e-up really charge in 9 hrs ? hardly ?

    The limits I’d Dublin City is 30km, 50km in the suburbs with a few roads being 80. You don’t get over 100 till you leave the M50. Many people don’t.


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    #46
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ted1 wrote: »
    The limits I’d Dublin City is 30km, 50km in the suburbs with a few roads being 80. You don’t get over 100 till you leave the M50. Many people don’t.

    It's shocking that Dacia feel the only way to make an EV cheap is to give it such little power.......

    Irish People will buy it because it's cheap and drive it on the motorways in the middle lane.


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    #47
    innrain
    Registered Users Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭innrain


    Black_Knight wrote: »
    What does 15k get you in terms of a new city car currently?

    Toyota Aygo, Hyundai I10, Citroen C1 and that"s about it. New driver or retirement car


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    #48
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It's shocking that Dacia feel the only way to make an EV cheap is to give it such little power.......

    Irish People will buy it because it's cheap and drive it on the motorways in the middle lane.

    I think Dacia know their market, there's plenty of cars on the road with piddly engines that sell well enough to people who don't care.


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    #49
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,072 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It's shocking that Dacia feel the only way to make an EV cheap is to give it such little power.......

    My guess is that the low power is to do with getting a good WLTP range from it, nothing to do with making it cheap.

    The cheap is by making DC charging optional and I'm sure the interior will be spartan.


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    #50
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    KCross wrote: »
    My guess is that the low power is to do with getting a good WLTP range from it, nothing to do with making it cheap.

    The cheap is by making DC charging optional and I'm sure the interior will be spartan.

    You mean DC is optional ? seriously ? haha wow, just when you think it can't get any worse.

    Remember the fluence ? that died because there was no DC charging.

    Spartan interior I've no issue with, in fact I think it's great for the non tech driver, many will struggle to set charging timers and big screens are a distraction.


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    #51
    innrain
    Registered Users Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭innrain


    Dacia was always the cheapest brand in Europe. In fact Renault didn't intend to market this brand to Western Europe. Their first car (after Renault purchase) started at under 6k and was intended for Eastern Europe, Russia, Africa and Middle East. However, it proved a big hit and spread to Latin America. Around 2008 - 2009 few western countries had generous scrappage programs (DE -2500, AT-1500...) which made the Logan to be sold at less than 4k. So the demand brought this 3rd world brand to western countries. I suppose now they want to experiment something similar.
    Spartan is probably easy put. I've read a review about the Logan saying that it was build on the same platform as Clio but with 50% less parts :) Expect the same from Spring which would cost 50% less than Zoe.


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    #52
    Thierry12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Thierry12


    liamog wrote: »
    I think Dacia know their market, there's plenty of cars on the road with piddly engines that sell well enough to people who don't care.

    True

    All the koreans phevs have around that bhp in EV mode and they seem happy with it, even a 2500kg BMW X5 phev only has 100bhp or so in EV mode

    Personally it would be way too slow for me, but people used to slow cars will be fine with 125nm on tap


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    #53
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Thierry12 wrote: »
    True

    All the koreans phevs have around that bhp in EV mode and they seem happy with it, even a 2500kg BMW X5 phev only has 100bhp or so in EV mode

    Personally it would be way too slow for me, but people used to slow cars will be fine with 125nm on tap

    Yes and no, around town it would be fine but on the open road it will be seriously lacking at higher speeds because there is no gearbox you do not have access to 125nm of torque at higher speeds and it will be much less.

    Those cars will be a right pain in the ass on the road to be honest but if they have no DC charging I can't see many People buying them if they have to wait hours to recharge on a longer trip and it's a serious restriction without fast charging, though fast charging would probably mean 30 Kw on that car.


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    #54
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,047 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Sounds like a perfect city car, which would suit the vast majority of people in Ireland.

    I live rurally, and it would suit me just as well.


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    #55
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Seriously though, 44 hp ? I think anyone used to even a 1.0L car would find this ridiculously slow, it's one thing around town but power will rapidly reduce at higher speeds without a gearbox, if there's ever a case for a gear box in an EV then it's definitely here lol. Anyone test driving in town might be shocked at higher speeds.


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    #56
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    And yet ... If the pricing is low enough Dacia / renault's biggest problem could be making enough of them and getting the batteries ...
    There'll probably be a second generation quite quickly with a bigger motor , and faster charging ( and as battery tech is moving so fast , probably a better / lighter battery )

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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    #57
    Thierry12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Thierry12


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Seriously though, 44 hp ? I think anyone used to even a 1.0L car would find this ridiculously slow, it's one thing around town but power will rapidly reduce at higher speeds without a gearbox, if there's ever a case for a gear box in an EV then it's definitely here lol. Anyone test driving in town might be shocked at higher speeds.

    Think will leave a 1.0l Yaris for dead at low speeds, youd have to rev nuts out of a 1.0l to keep up and look anti social around town

    For sub €15,000 its tempting, should do 200km in under 80km/h roads

    If its closer to €20,000 better buy a used Leaf or Ioniq


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    #58
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Thierry12 wrote: »
    Think will leave a 1.0l Yaris for dead at low speeds, youd have to rev nuts out of a 1.0l to keep up and look anti social around town

    For sub €15,000 its tempting, should do 200km in under 80km/h roads

    If its closer to €20,000 better buy a used Leaf or Ioniq

    Yeah around town it will have more torque but the 1.0L yaris has a gearbox which really helps at speed, the Dacia will struggle above 60-70 Km/hr. I would bet it would struggle at speed on hills too.

    To be honest, I'd rather drive a 1.0L Yaris!


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    #59
    3d4life
    Registered Users Posts: 814 ✭✭✭3d4life


    Guess M_L isnt a prospect for one so.

    The original Mini had an engine that put out thirty something horsepower, millions of people were delighted to get their hands on one.


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    #60
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users Posts: 3,238 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    A brand new electric car for €15,000, that's going to generate a lot of interest.
    And if it sells in large numbers and I believe it will, could finally bring affordable electric cars to the masses.

    My own Auris Hybrid has a 27hp electric motor and weighs 1420kg, with a full tank.
    Which works out at 19hp per tonne.
    Driving on electric only in the city is just about doable, but you'll get a queue behind.
    44hp from the Spring should be more than enough at city speeds.
    Although motorway/hilly driving could be interesting.
    I'd say people will forgive a lot for that price tag.


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    #61
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    3d4life wrote: »
    Guess M_L isnt a prospect for one so.

    The original Mini had an engine that put out thirty something horsepower, millions of people were delighted to get their hands on one.

    Indeed, however, you're missing the point, electric motors have lots of torque from just above 0 rpm which reduces as speed rises so you have a lot less torque at higher rpm, an ICE on the other hand needs the gearbox due to the limited rev range but you can get max torque in any gear unlike an ev which helps eek as much power out of the engine as possible, if an EV with such low power had a 2 speed box it would allow more torque at higher rpm/speed.

    However, as I said before, electric car power output can be altered to provide more torque at higher speeds at the expense of torque at lower speeds by choosing a different motor Kv and gear ratio and by adjusting the Motor controller software.

    + the original Mini was very small and light so the low power wasn't as noticeable.


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