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Peter McVerry Trust staff and wages

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    #662
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    corner of hells wrote: »
    Aw man ,, forcing kids into care, sweet Jesus above.

    In the above scenario no one is forcing the children into care except the mother.


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    #663
    mickdw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,333 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    salmocab wrote: »
    Well that’s surely relative to the amount of employees? If you have ten staff then that’s a big payroll if you have 500 it’s not.

    Yes but would a for profit business employ 500 to do the same work?
    I don't know the extent of what this trust does but 500 staff would seem to service a lot of homeless be they social care, housing staff etc.
    How many people and how many houses have they involvement with and what kind of annual budget do they have?


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    #664
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,315 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    mickdw wrote: »
    Yes but would a for profit business employ 500 to do the same work?
    I don't know the extent of what this trust does but 500 staff would seem to service a lot of homeless be they social care, housing staff etc.
    How many people and how many houses have they involvement with?

    This is the point I was making though, nobody here knows how much and exactly what work they do (very much including me) but people are happy to say it’s too much and also think that 37k is too much when it’s almost exactly the industrial average. A for profit business would also want a profit so would drop the bits that aren’t making as much as other bits, charities wouldn’t be as quick to do it so there can’t be a fair comparison on that front.


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    #665
    easypazz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭easypazz


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    In the above scenario no one is forcing the children into care except the mother.

    Exactly. Parents could at least give it a go.

    So present as homeless.

    Immediately offer them a house in rural ireland instead of a hotel.

    They can remain on the waiting list for a house in Dublin and when it becomes available move back to Dublin

    Many will have happily resettled by then and may never move back.


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    #666
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,365 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    In the above scenario no one is forcing the children into care except the mother.

    Thank God, its something in your imagination.

    It's clear you haven't a notion about the mechanisms of kids going into care.


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    #667
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Just in case you or other posters are interested, approximately 5,800 individuals accessed their services in 2018. Not an over heavy workload for their well paid employees.
    mickdw wrote: »
    Yes but would a for profit business employ 500 to do the same work?
    I don't know the extent of what this trust does but 500 staff would seem to service a lot of homeless be they social care, housing staff etc.
    How many people and how many houses have they involvement with and what kind of annual budget do they have?

    I posted the figures earlier.


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    #668
    BDI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭BDI


    corner of hells wrote: »
    Thank God, its something in your imagination.

    It's clear you haven't a notion about the mechanisms of kids going into care.

    Them mechanisms probably need sorting out too.


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    #669
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,365 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    BDI wrote: »
    Them mechanisms probably need sorting out too.

    After you sort them out , maybe give the FAI a call ?
    They need an expert like yourself.


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    #670
    BDI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭BDI


    corner of hells wrote: »
    After you sort them out , maybe give the FAI a call ?
    They need an expert like yourself.

    That’s one of the issues there is More of an uproar about one CEO taking the pee out funding of a bunch of lads kicking a ball around than there is of a pile of CEOs all running one division of a charity that is supposed to help a few homeless people.


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    #671
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,365 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    BDI wrote: »
    That’s one of the issues there is More of an uproar about one CEO taking the pee out funding of a bunch of lads kicking a ball around than there is of a pile of CEOs all running one division of a charity that is supposed to help a few homeless people.

    Do you want to rewrite that post ?


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    #672
    BDI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭BDI


    corner of hells wrote: »
    Do you want to rewrite that post ?

    If I arrived at work tomorrow and we had a CEO in charge putting in the sinks, a CEO in charge putting in the baths, a CEO in charge of putting in the fan coil units and a CEO in charge of putting in the ducting and we all had a few board members and hundred or so staff in each department I’d faint if I found out we only have 100 rooms to build and a few hundred rooms to service.

    It’d be criminal for me not to sort it out.


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    #673
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,929 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    corner of hells wrote: »
    Do you want to rewrite that post ?

    Comparing Peter McVerry to John Delaney. Did you ever hear the likes of it.


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    #674
    BDI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭BDI


    anewme wrote: »
    Comparing Peter McVerry to John Delaney. Did you ever hear the likes of it.

    The fella you are quoting did.


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    #675
    mickdw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,333 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    5800 people using the service. I'm surprised by that.
    It's a big number. Saying that, it is difficult to work out what work that entails. Some might approach the service once only while.others may need help daily. I guess if the wages are going for front line services for the most part, it's all good.
    In a well run business, how many of 500 would be expected to be front line workers?


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    #676
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,365 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    BDI wrote: »
    If I arrived at work tomorrow and we had a CEO in charge putting in the sinks, a CEO in charge putting in the baths, a CEO in charge of putting in the fan coil units and a CEO in charge of putting in the ducting and we all had a few board members and hundred or so staff in each department I’d faint if I found out we only have 100 rooms to build and a few hundred rooms to service.

    It’d be criminal for me not to sort it out.

    If you arrived in work and your boss wanted you to take a pay cut, use a hacksaw to cut you rod and unistrut instead of chop saw, reduce your team by 4/5 s , how would you feel about that ?,


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    #677
    Ronin247
    Registered Users Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭Ronin247


    corner of hells wrote: »
    Are you suggesting reducing the staffing levels by 4/5s across the board , or in specific roles ?

    To give you an idea of what frontline staffing levels are needed,for every 6 or so residents in low threshold accommodation, you need one social care worker.

    4000 are not collecting the dole and a significant amount are on a disability payment.

    4000 are not collecting the dole because they are children, a significant amount are on disability payment which is dole by another name (I know there is a difference).

    There are 10600 people having their accommodation and their day to day expenses taken care of by the state. The homeless charity industry is picking up the slack at the edges, the mental health problems, drug and alcohol addiction problems etc. I honestly don't think there are 2000 people needed to look after a few hundred outliers.


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    #678
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,365 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    mickdw wrote: »
    5800 people using the service. I'm surprised by that.
    It's a big number. Saying that, it is difficult to work out what work that entails. Some might approach the service once only while.others may need help daily. I guess if the wages are going for front line services for the most part, it's all good.
    In a well run business, how many of 500 would be expected to be front line workers?


    Who I work for has a workforce of 400 or so ,, I'm roughly estimating 145 fulltime frontline workers, theres part-time staff and relief too along with role specific staff taking it to around 200.
    That's not including catering, maintenance ,admin etc.


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    #679
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,365 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    Ronin247 wrote: »
    4000 are not collecting the dole because they are children, a significant amount are on disability payment which is dole by another name (I know there is a difference).

    There are 10600 people having their accommodation and their day to day expenses taken care of by the state. The homeless charity industry is picking up the slack at the edges, the mental health problems, drug and alcohol addiction problems etc. I honestly don't think there are 2000 people needed to look after a few hundred outliers.

    So how many are needed?


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    #680
    Ronin247
    Registered Users Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭Ronin247


    corner of hells wrote: »
    So how many are needed?

    There is probably need for one small homeless charity, with a well paid frontline staff with proper training, facilities and support. They could organise the 3000 volunteers and remove the duplication of services and CEOs, PROs, advertising departments and a few hundred other jobs for the boys employees.


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    #681
    mickdw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,333 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Quick look on peter mcverry website would suggest that they are hiring at a significant level also.

    Policy development officer
    Administrator for central supports
    Housing officers
    Housing development officer
    Housing development administrator.
    Night support worker.
    Relief project workers
    Corporate engagement manager

    It certainly doesn't appear to be 95 percent front line workers.


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    #682
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,365 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    Ronin247 wrote: »
    There is probably need for one small homeless charity, with a well paid frontline staff with proper training, facilities and support. They could organise the 3000 volunteers and remove the duplication of services and CEOs, PROs, advertising departments and a few hundred other jobs for the boys employees.

    I've worked with volunteers before , they vary from brilliant to ego driven , I'm not sure how you recruit , train , retain and roster in that many volunteers.
    Volunteers tend to want to work fixed weekday hours , never nights or holidays periods.
    Volunteers also have ambition and ultimately will seek paid employment if some sort.
    If I write a letter of advocacy or support for an individual, I'm expected to stand over it , that means my letter could end up in court or in the hands of a doctor, would you expect a volunteer to do that ?

    If I have an overdose in accommodation , it's me that expected to take lead , give CPR , administer naloxone etc not a volunteer.

    When say "small" , do you mean providing a limited service ?


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    #683
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,365 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    mickdw wrote: »
    Quick look on peter mcverry website would suggest that they are hiring at a significant level also.

    Policy development officer
    Administrator for central supports
    Housing officers
    Housing development officer
    Housing development administrator.
    Night support worker.
    Relief project workers
    Corporate engagement manager

    It certainly doesn't appear to be 95 percent front line workers.

    Relief project workers, night support workers and housing officers are all frontline staff, it looks like they're being recruited in multiples , the rest seem to be single positions.


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    #684
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    corner of hells wrote: »
    Relief project workers, night support workers and housing officers are all frontline staff, it looks like they're being recruited in multiples , the rest seem to be single positions.

    On top of the 500 already in the organisation?
    Massive workforce for so few clients imo.


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    #685
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,365 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    tayto lover wrote: »
    On top of the 500 already in the organisation?
    Massive workforce for so few clients imo.

    The three I highlighted are hostel staff, you have to a certain number of staff to residents ratio at night.


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    #686
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    mickdw wrote: »
    Quick look on peter mcverry website would suggest that they are hiring at a significant level also.

    Policy development officer
    Administrator for central supports
    Housing officers
    Housing development officer
    Housing development administrator.
    Night support worker.
    Relief project workers
    Corporate engagement manager

    It certainly doesn't appear to be 95 percent front line workers.

    Very high staff turnover in PMV.


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    #687
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,036 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    If Mary won’t take a house, her children should be taken into state care and she can have the street.

    would be unviable due to cost i have a feeling, and would be ridiculous anyway.
    extra care places would be required to do this for the multiple families out there who are looking for housing, + all of the social/case workers and other staff required.
    never mind the fact that the state care system is only there to deal with children who it is actually, genuinely not possible to leave with their parents.
    sounds like it would be cheaper to just house the families in the city they are in.
    weldoninhio wrote: »
    In the above scenario no one is forcing the children into care except the mother.

    incorrect, it would be you and others supporting such unrealistic nonsense.
    easypazz wrote: »
    Exactly. Parents could at least give it a go.

    So present as homeless.

    Immediately offer them a house in rural ireland instead of a hotel.

    They can remain on the waiting list for a house in Dublin and when it becomes available move back to Dublin

    Many will have happily resettled by then and may never move back.

    they couldn't give it a go as rural ireland has it's own people needing housing, and is unable to take any more.
    all that would probably end up happening is rural ireland would become a dumping ground for these people, essentially a repeat of the already failed experiments of the 1960s, where the former residents of the teniments were dumped in at the time, rural parts of dublin with no amenities or anything, and left to their own devices, with massive regeneration required decades later.
    it is likely many of those people will just return to dublin quite quickly and will not resettle.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #688
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,036 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    BDI wrote: »
    Not a literal house but secure accommodation being refused by a parent should be a red flag for care workers to intervene and move the children to safety.

    Whether that be in Roscommon or Sri Lanka.

    again that would probably be unviable due to cost, and would put huge strain on already strained care workers no doubt.
    we may end up losing care workers due to the strain which will cause more problems to children who are actually genuinely in need of those worker's work which will actually be a real problem, compared to the tiny few who might refuse a house.
    all just to have a go at poor mary just because no doubt.
    BDI wrote: »
    Them mechanisms probably need sorting out too.

    it's unlikely they do.
    they are designed so that only children who actually need to be taken into care, are so.
    BDI wrote: »
    If I arrived at work tomorrow and we had a CEO in charge putting in the sinks, a CEO in charge putting in the baths, a CEO in charge of putting in the fan coil units and a CEO in charge of putting in the ducting and we all had a few board members and hundred or so staff in each department I’d faint if I found out we only have 100 rooms to build and a few hundred rooms to service.

    It’d be criminal for me not to sort it out.

    just as well that's not how the charities do things then.
    people who are specialised in such work do that work, not CEOs.
    BDI wrote: »
    The fella you are quoting did.

    he didn't.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #689
    Jimmy Bottlehead
    Registered Users Posts: 10,118 ✭✭✭✭Jimmy Bottlehead


    BDI wrote: »
    There was an aggressive fella here earlier saying he makes food, while administering medication while helping a guy who overdosed. While providing councilling and taking a knife from an aggressive guy, while filling out houseing forms and welfare forms.

    If he does all this why do we need so many staff.

    I actually feel quite sorry for you by now. You fill your time moaning from your phone/computer about how homeless organisations handle the crisis, and berating the workers in that industry.

    You have no experience, and no knowledge, but are full of venom and convinced you could solve the crisis, yet continue to bait and complain on here instead of volunteering or in any way helping a homeless individual.

    What is missing in your life, that the above has come to be?


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    #690
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,929 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »
    I actually feel quite sorry for you by now. You fill your time moaning from your phone/computer about how homeless organisations handle the crisis, and berating the workers in that industry.

    You have no experience, and no knowledge, but are full of venom and convinced you could solve the crisis, yet continue to bait and complain on here instead of volunteering or in any way helping a homeless individual.

    What is missing in your life, that the above has come to be?

    OP has a history of complaining and slagging off any profession that does not involve working on a building site or if he deems anyone to earn more than site work . We have had public servants, bus drivers, teachers, office workers and probably more. Last week he did not like anyone in IT and they got a bashing. Now it just happens to be social care workers.


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    #691
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,365 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    anewme wrote: »
    OP has a history of complaining and slagging off any profession that does not involve working on a building site or if he deems anyone to earn more than site work . We have had public servants, bus drivers, teachers, office workers and probably more. Last week he did not like anyone in IT and they got a bashing. Now it just happens to be social care workers.

    I have a confession to make.

    I worked on building sites for many years.

    Can ya'll forgive me ?


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