HGV overtaking on motorway

jarvis · 21-11-2019 9:06am #1

I was on the N2 this morning and doing 100kmph with cruise control keeping it there. It was raining and traffic was decent and moving well. I seen lights as someone in the overtaking lane was passing me. Couldn’t believe it was a HGV. He seemed to be fine passing by as in he wasn’t struggling to pass me. He then returned to the inside lane in front of me but only for about 30 seconds as he then decided to over take the car he’d gone in behind. I was able to keep my 100kmph cruising speed throughout but I was a bit taken aback by this guy. It was a northern reg.

Is there not supposed to be speed restricters on these vehicles and does anyone know have they a different speed limit because of their size and weight? He had to be doing 120 to overtake me doing 100. If he’d lost control it would have been absolute carnage.

L1011 · 21-11-2019 9:09am

Limit is 90 on motorways, and they aren't allowed in the outside lane in motorways either. Limiter has to be there at 90 on Irish registered vehicles and 56mph which is much the same on UK ones.

UK drivers will feign ignorance of the outside lane rules but that doesn't absolve them!

sandrat · 21-11-2019 9:12am

I thought it was a bad idea to use cruise control in the rain?

Infernal Racket · 21-11-2019 9:20am

sandrat wrote: »

I thought it was a bad idea to use cruise control in the rain?

It is. If he lost control it would be absolute cornage

Tacitus Kilgore · 21-11-2019 9:34am

Gerry G wrote: »

It is. If he lost control it would be absolute cornage

It is - on very old tech vehicles where the cruise setup is basic, nothing to worry about with a modern car that has tcs and such

Cookie_Monster · 21-11-2019 10:31am

anyone who believes any of those limiters is remotely accurate is kidding themselves IMO

chooseusername · 21-11-2019 10:39am

L1011 wrote: »

Limit is 90 on motorways, and they aren't allowed in the outside lane in motorways either. Limiter has to be there at 90 on Irish registered vehicles and 56mph which is much the same on UK ones.

UK drivers will feign ignorance of the outside lane rules but that doesn't absolve them!

He doesn't say he was in the outermost lane , just the overtaking lane.

magicbastarder · 21-11-2019 10:41am

i assume he was on a two lane stretch; the M2 is two lanes for the considerable majority of the road.

chooseusername · 21-11-2019 10:45am

magicbastarder wrote: »

i assume he was on a two lane stretch; the M2 is two lanes for the considerable majority of the road.

In which case , is he not allowed to use the overtaking lane?

Cookie_Monster · 21-11-2019 10:45am

chooseusername wrote: »

In which case , is not allowed to use the overtaking lane?

no

is_that_so · 21-11-2019 10:46am

L1011 wrote: »

Limit is 90 on motorways, and they aren't allowed in the outside lane in motorways either. Limiter has to be there at 90 on Irish registered vehicles and 56mph which is much the same on UK ones.

UK drivers will feign ignorance of the outside lane rules but that doesn't absolve them!

Quite a few of the overtaking trucks I see on the M1 are northern reg. They are usually the primary cause of sudden brake light tailbacks and I can't say they are anywhere near 90kph.

ted1 · 21-11-2019 10:47am

N2 or M2?

HeidiHeidi · 21-11-2019 10:48am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

no

What? So no HGV can ever overtake another slower vehicle?

GM228 · 21-11-2019 10:56am

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

What? So no HGV can ever overtake another slower vehicle?

That is correct, vehicles limited to 90km/h or less are not permitted to enter the right most lane of a motorway except in an emergency or obstruction.

See the Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations 1997 S33 (1)(d) as amended by the Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) (Amendment) Regulations 2012:-

Rules for Traffic on Motorways

33 (1) A driver on a motorway shall not—

(d) drive a vehicle of a class for which an ordinary speed limit of not more than 90 kilometres per hour is prescribed by regulations under section 3 and 4 of the Road Traffic Act, 2004in the traffic lane nearest the right hand edge of a carriageway having more than one traffic lane except where it is necessary to proceed in that lane due to an obstruction or because another lane or lanes is or are for the time being closed to traffic.

And no, slow moving traffic is not an obstruction.

chooseusername · 21-11-2019 10:58am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

no

You got in before I could edit,Cookie

eusap · 21-11-2019 11:03am

which also means on a 3 lane road they can use lane 1 & 2

HeidiHeidi · 21-11-2019 11:05am

GM228 wrote: »

That is correct, vehicles limited to 90km/h or less are not permitted to enter the right most lane of a motorway except in an emergency or obstruction.

See the Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations 1997 S33 (1)(d) as amended by the Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) (Amendment) Regulations 2012:-

And no, slow moving traffic is not an obstruction.

Well, I stand corrected, thank you!

Always thought that applied to three lane carriageways, but not two.

That's motorways, though, does the same apply on non-motorways?

GM228 · 21-11-2019 11:06am

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Well, I stand corrected, thank you!

Always thought that applied to three lane carriageways, but not two.

That's motorways, though, does the same apply on non-motorways?

Only applies to the right most lane of motorways.

HeidiHeidi · 21-11-2019 11:06am

eusap wrote: »

which also means on a 3 lane road they can use lane 1 & 2

I realise now I had it backwards in my head. More coffee required.

Del2005 · 21-11-2019 11:14am

GM228 wrote: »

That is correct, vehicles limited to 90km/h or less are not permitted to enter the right most lane of a motorway except in an emergency or obstruction.

See the Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations 1997 S33 (1)(d) as amended by the Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) (Amendment) Regulations 2012:-

And no, slow moving traffic is not an obstruction.

The OP said N2 thought so the HGV can use the overtaking lane.

Why do motorists think that cyclists and tractors, slow moving traffic, are an obstruction that can be passed on continuous white lines yet slow moving vehicles aren't on a motorway aren't when trucks when to overtake?

magicbastarder · 21-11-2019 11:36am

ted1 wrote: »

N2 or M2?

yeah, this can be confusing - leaving the M50 nortbound on this road, it's the N2 for the first roughly 4km, then turns into the M2 for the next 12km or so, before reverting to the N2 just north of Ashbourne. for most of that first 4km of it being the N2, it's 3 lanes, but drops to two when it becomes the M2.

jarvis · 21-11-2019 12:26pm

Sorry guys it was the M2 not the N2. It was two lane stretch not 3 and it’s not an old basic cruise control system. I was driving extremely carefully ðŸ˜‚ðŸ€£ðŸ˜‚ðŸ€£

McCrack · 22-11-2019 1:08pm

Op if your speedometer was reading 100 you were likely doing 92/93 in real terms

L1011 · 22-11-2019 1:33pm

McCrack wrote: »

Op if your speedometer was reading 100 you were likely doing 92/93 in real terms

Only on a needle speedo. Digital ones are going to be 98/99.

And anyway, all are above the 90km/h the truck should be limited to.

endacl · 22-11-2019 1:35pm

Gerry G wrote: »

It is. If he lost control it would be absolute cornage

D4 carnage?

Wishbone Ash · 23-11-2019 6:24pm

GM228 wrote: »

Only applies to the right most lane of motorways.

....and only where the speed limit of the motorway is above 80km/h. Otherwise they may use any lane.

JC01 · 23-11-2019 6:28pm

Your indicated 100k in your car is probably actually 85--95k in reality.

The HGV has a calibrated tachometer that accurately limits him. That discrepancy in displayed vs actual speed is the reason he could overtake you.

L1011 · 23-11-2019 7:59pm

JC01 wrote: »

Your indicated 100k in your car is probably actually 85--95k in reality.

85 would be illegally out of spec and 95 would be a bad needle speedo.

100 on a digital, which most cars with cruise have, is 98-100

The truck was breaking the law in the outer lane and almost certainly speeding also - your scenario is implausible

Isambard · 24-11-2019 11:40am

my car with digital speedo is 4% out. thus 100km/h is 104 on the dash.(or thereabouts)

10% out is implausible on a modern vehicle.

GM228 · 24-11-2019 1:34pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

....and only where the speed limit of the motorway is above 80km/h. Otherwise they may use any lane.

No they can't, the prohibition is not subject to a minimum motorway speed limit.

Wishbone Ash · 24-11-2019 8:10pm

GM228 wrote: »

No they can't, the prohibition is not subject to a minimum motorway speed limit.

There are some sections where a truck must be in the rightmost lane - hence the reason why it doesn't apply to motorways where the limit is 80km/h or less.

I'd be interested in how you would bring a truck to Dublin Airport from the M1 southbound without using the right lane as one must enter the motorway on the right lane on the section towards the airport.

Further southbound, a truck entering the DPT make legally access it on the rightmost lane. Similarly, a truck may legally exit the DPT heading north on the rightmost lane.

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to why you think the prohibition is not subject to speed limits.

highdef · 24-11-2019 10:38pm

L1011 wrote: »

Only on a needle speedo. Digital ones are going to be 98/99.

And anyway, all are above the 90km/h the truck should be limited to.

Not true. Have tested the hubbys electric car with digital Speedo and it is 10% over at all speeds.

highdef · 24-11-2019 10:41pm

GM228 wrote: »

Only applies to the right most lane of motorways.

So if a HGV gets stuck behind a tractor that is doing (and can only do) 60 km/h on the M4 at Leixlip, the hgv driver will have to wait till near Mullingar to overtake, where the motorway loses its motorway status.... Assuming the tractor is driving that far, which it is perfectly entitled to do.

Still waters · 24-11-2019 10:45pm

He must have the magnet out of its hiding place in the cab

Still waters · 24-11-2019 10:47pm

highdef wrote: »

So if a HGV gets stuck behind a tractor that is doing (and can only do) 60 km/h on the M4 at Leixlip, the hgv driver will have to wait till near Mullingar to overtake, where the motorway loses its motorway status.... Assuming the tractor is driving that far, which it is perfectly entitled to do.

Legally he's supposed to stay behind the tractor

zubair · 24-11-2019 10:51pm

jarvis wrote: »

He had to be doing 120 to overtake me doing 100. If he’d lost control it would have been absolute carnage.

Pretty sure 101 would have done it :-)

disposableFish · 24-11-2019 11:04pm

Still waters wrote: »

He must have the magnet out of its hiding place in the cab

Bingo, this the answer to this whole thing.

Wishbone Ash · 25-11-2019 12:51am

highdef wrote: »

So if a HGV gets stuck behind a tractor that is doing (and can only do) 60 km/h on the M4 at Leixlip, the hgv driver will have to wait till near Mullingar to overtake, where the motorway loses its motorway status.... Assuming the tractor is driving that far, which it is perfectly entitled to do.

Yes.

The driver is free to chose an alternative route if he/she isn't happy with the motorway regulations.

highdef · 25-11-2019 2:02am

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Yes.

The driver is free to chose an alternative route if he/she isn't happy with the motorway regulations.

So there is the very literal possibility (assuming all hgv drivers follow the rules of the road) that on the approach to Mullingar there could be dozens upon dozens of HGV's queing up behind the tractor, way behind schedule, leading to late deliveries to a consortium of places simply because the delivery drivers were unable to pass by a slow moving vehicle (tractor, in this case). There would be other knock on effects because dozens of HGV'S in a queue would most likely lead to a brake light backlog or phantom slow down type situation.

Still waters · 25-11-2019 7:53am

Yep, another great idea caused by photocopying legislation from the uk, you can be punished but its very unlikely so most drivers overtake when able

zubair · 25-11-2019 8:26am

Still waters wrote: »

Yep, another great idea caused by photocopying legislation from the uk, you can be punished but its very unlikely so most drivers overtake when able

Honestly I didn't even know this was a rule until I was in court one day and there was a hgv driver up for exactly this. I imagine he was taking the pizz to get done for it though and then decided to fight it.

Drifter50 · 25-11-2019 8:41am

Surely tractors are not allowed on motorways

Must have another look at the forbidden vehicles for motorways, I was always fairly sure farm vehicles including tractors are forbidden

But I stand to be corrected

Cookie_Monster · 25-11-2019 8:43am

Drifter50 wrote: »

Surely tractors are not allowed on motorways

Must have another look at the forbidden vehicles for motorways, I was always fairly sure farm vehicles including tractors are forbidden

But I stand to be corrected

once they are capable of 50km/h its fine

Cookie_Monster · 25-11-2019 8:44am

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

There are some sections where a truck must be in the rightmost lane - hence the reason why it doesn't apply to motorways where the limit is 80km/h or less.

where and why?

osheen · 25-11-2019 9:19am

As already pointed out, when entering the m50 from the m1 south bound and again if exiting the m50 heading for clarehall

Count Down · 25-11-2019 9:26am

Drifter50 wrote: »

Surely tractors are not allowed on motorways

Must have another look at the forbidden vehicles for motorways, I was always fairly sure farm vehicles including tractors are forbidden

But I stand to be corrected

As long as the vehicle is capable of attaining a speed of 50km per hour.
Stupid rule, because unlike the UK, there's nothing to stop the driver of say. a tractor or JCB from dawdling along at 40km per hour or less holding up an entire lane (I've seen it happen).
It seems that once a vehicle is on the motorway it can travel at any speed the driver likes, as long as it's capable of at least 50km per hour.

Imagine being a truck driver in a hurry.....:mad:

Seth Brundle · 25-11-2019 9:30am

Count Down wrote: »

As long as the vehicle is capable of attaining a speed of 50km per hour.
Stupid rule, because unlike the UK, there's nothing to stop the driver of say. a tractor or JCB from dawdling along at 40km per hour or less holding up an entire lane (I've seen it happen).
It seems that once a vehicle is on the motorway it can travel at any speed the driver likes, as long as it's capable of at least 50km per hour.
Imagine being a truck driver in a hurry.....:mad:

You mean like cars do on the M50 and other motorways every day?

GM228 · 25-11-2019 10:27am

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

There are some sections where a truck must be in the rightmost lane - hence the reason why it doesn't apply to motorways where the limit is 80km/h or less.

Legislation does not support what your claiming, it does not specify a minimum speed at which the prohibition kicks in.

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I'd be interested in how you would bring a truck to Dublin Airport from the M1 southbound without using the right lane as one must enter the motorway on the right lane on the section towards the airport.

A truck must be in the right most lane when entering the airport from the M1 Southbound? At J2 I assume you mean? Since when must a truck be in the right lane for the airport there?

Yes, there are locations where a truck must be in the right most lane to take a particular destination, however often they are not "traffic lanes" for the purposes of road traffic legislation which legally is not the same as the common understanding of a lane. This is where you get technical in applying the law, but nevertheless an important aspect when interpreting the law.

That aside yes there are places where the roads have been screwed up somewhat and not technically in compliance with the traffic legislation, an example of this being on the M50 Northbound heading for Malahide at J1, but there are other instances where the layout of the roads is not compatible with road traffic law.

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Further southbound, a truck entering the DPT make legally access it on the rightmost lane. Similarly, a truck may legally exit the DPT heading north on the rightmost lane.

No they can't, they can not be in the right lane in the DPT or when entering or exiting the DPT.

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to why you think the prohibition is not subject to speed limits.

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to why you think it is, afterall you maid the claim.

I have shown the legislation in force, it is not qualified by a minimum speed, that is a fact, you can't read in qualifying criteria into legislation to fit the agenda (and neither can a court), you simply can not put an applicable speed when one does not exist for the purposes of statutory interpretation, that is not how the law works.

GM228 · 25-11-2019 10:50am

Still waters wrote: »

Yep, another great idea caused by photocopying legislation from the uk, you can be punished but its very unlikely so most drivers overtake when able

Ireland and the UK introduced the ban around the same time in 1983.

It is enforced and there has been a big crack down on it in recent years.

Still waters · 25-11-2019 11:38am

GM228 wrote: »

Ireland and the UK introduced the ban around the same time in 1983.

It is enforced and there has been a big crack down on it in recent years.

Ive many miles covered all over Ireland in artic and rigid and have only ever heard of a dew lads being done, ive overtaken and been overtaken in hgvs and never had a problem, just lucky so far i suppose

Wishbone Ash · 25-11-2019 11:56am

GM228 wrote: »

Legislation does not support what your claiming......

.......Perhaps you could enlighten us as to why you think it is, afterall you maid the claim.....

It's not easy to find as the principal act has been ammended so many times - see part highlighted in red.

(b) in article 33(1), by inserting after paragraph (d) (inserted by the Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations 2005 ( S.I. No. 11 of 2005 )) the following:

“(e) Paragraph (d) does not apply where -

(i) a special speed limit of not more than 80 kilometres per hour applies under a special speed limit bye-law, or

(ii) a speed limit of not more than 80 kilometres per hour applies under a road works speed limit order.”.

HGV overtaking on motorway

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