ISIS people returning thread - no Lisa Smith talk (21/12/19)

I would say Lisa could be in trouble, as apparently she sold out an extremist group living in Dublin if the papers are telling the truth.

She could find it very isolating when she comes home as allot of groups from her religion wont touch her with a barge pole.

recedite wrote: »

There is no need for us to do anything, except arrange for a few Gardai to meet her at Dublin airport, and say thank-you to the nice Turkish policeman who she should be handcuffed to when she is deported.
It was a mistake for Varadkar to send Irish army rangers over there recently. It probably pissed off the Turks.

Also there was no need to go arranging special passports and travel documents for her. People don't need travel documents when they are being deported.

Not true....no doc's= no travel. 1st thing Frau Merkels invited refugee's did on arrival was to destroy their documents,,,they were told ( rightfully ) that unless they had documents proving their citizenship of the Country they came from, they could not be deported. If you ever watch the TC Show, Border Patrol, you will have seen the immigration official's ransacking the apartment's of suspected illegal immigrant's looking for passport's, and unless they find them, they cannot be deported.But once they do, it's hand cuff's on and a ride to the nearest nick.

recedite wrote: »

Yes, but we're just going to pretend that never happened.


We're going to say Islamic State was just a bunch of terrorists that formed a death cult. Even though they had territory, a capital city, an army, a booming oil export business, and the immigration program you refer to.


An Irish passport cannot be renounced so easily. It may go up in flames, but it can resurrected later if necessary, phoenix like. As Leo Varadkar has just proved.

a passport is a piece of paper, nothing more. And she did not renounce her citizenship as I have already explained. Perhaps one day you may prefer facts over your baseless opinion. Clearly today is not that day.

tuxy wrote: »

Are you sure you don't lose your citizenship when this happens?

Nope, You could lose the document easily enough ( happened to,me once or twice ) but not your citizenship. Problem is you cannot travel with out travel documents...they have a mini-passport available now, credit card sized one, and I have seen people use it within the EU...But I'm not sure of it's validity outside the EU.

Watching a good programme on History about the rise of ISIS. And about Europeans returning as self organizing sleeper cells

tuxy wrote: »

If she has committed a crime then I don't think the Garda can ignore it.
That's why I mentioned the offences against the state act. But perhaps I'm looking at the wrong law.

I think that what they are looking at is the 2005 Anti-Terrorist act.

jmreire wrote: »

To the best of my knowledge, Schengen Visa's have to be applied for. And to get one, you must have the passport of your Country., What I know comes from Truck drivers, so I don't know the finer points of it. But all along the line, there is a paper trail. If Lisa could be deported without documentation , why did the Govt issue her with travel documents? Say Lisa arrives at Istanbul Airport, being deported, and without documents. I have traveled a lot, and have never seen anyone get into another Country without a passport, or other travel document. In fact, no plane will allow you to board without a passport, and depending where you are travelling to, a valid Visa. The airline's face stiff financial penalty's for accepting a passenger who does not have the correct document's..and have to return him / her to the point of origin. I had a big argument with Air Lingus staff at the check in desk one morning, all because my visa only had 6 weeks validity left. It did not even matter that I had a residency stamp in the passport, and already had spent more than 1 year working in that Country...and all because the rule's said 3 mths validity.

It's a special plane , and seemingly the passport is to leave Ireland. Any citizen has the right to enter ireland. Passport or not. As far as I understand

Danzy wrote: »

She hasn't renounced her views in the slightest and most of those she knew there are splatter.

Realistically her Intel would be general, rather than preventive.

Hard to be sure on that but for the immense threat she represents, not enough.

It beggars belief that she can walk off a plane in Dublin a free woman legally. Irish intellegance then interviews her to see if she is a threat to the state. This could take a number of weeks/ months to carry out - as they cannot go in with all guns firing from the start. If she is found to be a serious threat to the state / individuals in it - eg have a knife in her bag and slash all around her in a supermarket- she is then arrested. , I assume, and the court system takes over and her ‘movement is restricted’ if found guilty. If that is the case, let’s hope that she does nothing on behalf if ISIS in the meantime.
ABOUT 30 years ago an insurance company, I think, went bankrupt. The gov at the time had some involvement in it - a partner, underwriter or trying to save it. If the law stayed as it was it would have cost , I think, the Gov millions at the time- being sued by those who were out of pocket.
What did the Gov do . The Dail met on day one to discuss a change in the law to head off claims, and it was voted into law the following day.

What has all this got to do with Lisa Smith? I think that if an Irish citizen ‘makes efforts ‘to support an organization / movement that carries out atrocities overseas , Irish law should be clear as to how such a person should be brought to account. This does not seem to be the case with LisaSmith.
The Irish Gov has sufficient information to be suspicious of she being involved / supporting very illegal activities and therefor should arrest her as she arrives.
Irish people are arrested every day if the guards are suspicious of he/she being involved in something illegal.

Field east wrote: »

It beggars belief that she can walk off a plane in Dublin a free woman legally. Irish intellegance then interviews her to see if she is a threat to the state. This could take a number of weeks/ months to carry out - as they cannot go in with all guns firing from the start. If she is found to be a serious threat to the state / individuals in it - eg have a knife in her bag and slash all around her in a supermarket- she is then arrested. , I assume, and the court system takes over and her ‘movement is restricted’ if found guilty. If that is the case, let’s hope that she does nothing on behalf if ISIS in the meantime.
ABOUT 30 years ago an insurance company, I think, went bankrupt. The gov at the time had some involvement in it - a partner, underwriter or trying to save it. If the law stayed as it was it would have cost , I think, the Gov millions at the time- being sued by those who were out of pocket.
What did the Gov do . The Dail met on day one to discuss a change in the law to head off claims, and it was voted into law the following day.

What has all this got to do with Lisa Smith? I think that if an Irish citizen ‘makes efforts ‘to support an organization / movement that carries out atrocities overseas , Irish law should be clear as to how such a person should be brought to account. This does not seem to be the case with LisaSmith.
The Irish Gov has sufficient information to be suspicious of she being involved / supporting very illegal activities and therefor should arrest her as she arrives.
Irish people are arrested every day if the guards are suspicious of he/she being involved in something illegal.

As the law stands, we are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, and this is a very important piece of protection everyone is afforded. So will not be any different for Lisa. People are not arrested here just on suspicion of having committed a crime. They may be taken to a Guarda station for questioning but they will be arrested only after the Guard's have enough ground's to make a case against them. When the Lisa case first hit the headlines, the main discussion focused on the fact that regardless of what she may have done with /for isis abroad, she had not broken any Law's here in Ireland. So based on this, she would be free as a bird if she came home. Meanwhile, in other Country's, with more experience in these matter's ( terrorist bombings, shooting's ,stabbings etc.) they had already made laws concerning people who carried out these act's,even if they were carried out oversea's. So while Ireland may have plans to upgrade our Law's in line with say Germany, the only option they have realistically at the moment is the Anti-Terrorist Laws from 2005.And these Laws do have teeth...from 5 -10 years on conviction. Lisa is under investigation ( and has been since this issue came to light. ) But we will have to wait and see what will happen when and if she arrive's back.

cfuserkildare wrote: »

So how does the law stand in regards to membership of a known terrorist organisation?
Is Lisa Smith going to walk free when she already freely stated that she went there to Join ISIS?

ISIS was not (is not??) on the list of proscribed terrorist organisations in this country.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

ISIS was not (is not??) on the list of proscribed terrorist organisations in this country.

He said known not proscribed

So how does that apply to the two in Waterford accused of fundraising for ISIS?

cfuserkildare wrote: »

So how does the law stand in regards to membership of a known terrorist organisation?
Is Lisa Smith going to walk free when she already freely stated that she went there to Join ISIS?

Isn't her claim that she wasn't a member of ISIS as a "military" entity rather a member of ISIS as a "state" ie she was at all times a civilian while she was there.

end of the road wrote: »

i would be surprised if they don't have proof though, i would be surprised if the americans weren't sharing information with turkey for example which would throw up information as to where they came from.
i don't know for definite obviously but it would seem logical to me anyway.

Agreed 110%. I'd say that there is a fat file with her name on it..

cfuserkildare wrote: »

Oh this is classic,


Argue a point when you have not done your research properly.


Firstly was 1 man as per the article attached ( not 2 as I mistakenly stated)


https://www.waterfordlive.ie/news/home/322438/man-jailed-for-fundraising-for-isis-in-waterford.html


and another, just to be sure:-


https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/four-isis-terrorist-fundraising-suspects-13898448

we were discussing Lisa smith. surely you cant expect me to know every islamist in the country? now back to the point. They were not charged with membership of a proscribed organisation, which is what i responded to. these people were charged with a specific offence that does not reference proscribed organisations. such an offence is not relevant in the case of lisa smith. Nor is she quilty of membership of a proscribed organisation as ISIS was not such an organisation when she left to join them.

cfuserkildare wrote: »

ohnonotgmail,

Yeh thats fair.

Isn't ISIS one of those organisation's now on the " Bad " list?

Especially with their ties to Boko Haram and child abuse/smuggling? etc.

the question was asked in the Dail earlier in the year. the answer given is as clear as mud

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PQ-02-04-2019-213

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

ISIS was not (is not??) on the list of proscribed terrorist organisations in this country.

Can the dail, right now put ISIS on that list and backdate to the date that it was know to exist

US-born Alabama woman who joined ISIS is not an American citizen, judge rules
https://www.foxnews.com/us/us-born-woman-who-joined-isis-not-american-citizen

A federal judge ruled Thursday that an American-born woman who traveled to Syria to join the Islamic State (ISIS) group and now wants to return to her family in Alabama is not a U.S. citizen.

Muthana, 25, currently lives with her 2-year-old son in a refugee camp in Syria and has since repudiated the terrorist group. A court motion said she and child, identified only as John Doe, were moved from the Roj refugee camp after receiving death threats from ISIS supporters and that their lives are in danger, The New York Times reported.

In 2014, Muthana withdrew from college and left her home in Alabama to travel to Syria after being radicalized by ISIS online. She promoted the group's ideology on social media and called on Muslims to commit attacks in America, such as drive-by shootings and attempts to assassinate former President Barack Obama.

She has since apologized for her actions and said she wishes to return to the U.S. In February, Muthana said she wanted to come home even if it meant facing charges. Her passport was canceled in 2016 under the Obama administration.

The judge said he received thousands of messages mostly "spewed with hate" and threats against him if he ruled in Muthana's favor. He described them as failed attempts to "intimidate the court."

tuxy wrote: »

The lesson here is, if you want to break international law then you need to be a powerful country like America. Also Turkey are probably very happy with Trump right now so won't complain about holding on to her.

No, you don't need to be a big and powerful Country to act as Trump has. Leo ( or our President ) could do exactly the same thing, if the same conditions existed. Because while the Lady in question was born on American soil, and the Constitution guarantee's citizenship because of that, there are exceptions, and they apply in this case because she was the daughter of an active Diplomat at the time of her birth. This cancel's the usual constitutional right to citizenship. She is a Yemeni citizen, because her Father represented Yemeni at that time. So for once Trump is right, and separately, another Federal Judge has also ruled in this case that she is not an American Citizen. So seem's like she will be repatriated to Yemen.......be interesting to see how that works out in International Law.
As for Turkey being happy to hold her indefinitely,,,I would not be to sure about that,,,Erdogan so far has kept to his word to repatriate ALL foreign isis members on Turkish controlled territory...look at how quick our Lisa is being shipped back. There is no delay or appeal's when it come's to granting "leave to stay" in Turkey..You are either in or out.

Gatling wrote: »

The late late show is calling ,

What the actual ****


"Smith is set to be arrested as soon as she touches down at Baldonnel Aerodrome, near Dublin in Ireland on Tuesday, according to sources, the Irish Mirror reports .

And she has requested that she has an interview on popular Irish chat show the Late Late Show when she returns to Ireland.

A spokesman for the family, Peter Fitzpatrick said: “They’ve been approached by the Late Late Show and other media all looking for interviews, but Lisa told them she wants to give her own version.”

So Lisa tell us what attracted you to Isis when you joined up? Was it all the beheading videos at the time they were posting? Throwing gays off roofs?

Calhoun wrote: »

Well if the rags are to be believed they want to try and get her on but it really depends on the pressure that comes when she arrives home, also if she will be allowed on straight away.

I would expect an arrest/conversation with the guards and the child to be either taken off of her or have a very heavy tulsa presence. How she could be allowed on anything while there was an open case we shall see.

The Late Late will be an attempt at whitewashing what she has done and trying to paint her as a victim, id be more than boycotting.

That would be my reasoning too...for sure there won't be any limousine to whisk her from Dublin Airport ( if that's where she will land) to the RTE studio's. ( assuming she arrives on the right day ) And I think that there will not be too many welcoming her back to Dundalk either.