Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

volchitsa wrote: »

You're on a thread about a girl who was raped and murdered by, guess what, not another girl. Violence against women by men is a reality, despite your disgusting attempt to create false equivalents here. You need to go somewhere else to spit your Incel venom amd hatred at women.

I’m not the one tarring men for a action of a tiny fraction o a percent of people while playing the women are blameless always card. When you need to accuse someone of being an incel you’ve lost mate

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I think her murder had less to do with her being female and more with her being an "outsider" and vulnerable and an easy target. If it wasn't her, they may have targeted a boy if he was in a similar situation to her's. Obviously I'm speculating here because I don't know but based on what I have read, I think they just wanted to kill someone.

You are speculating indeed, and not even based on what you read apparently, unless you think the rape was an irrelevance.

They wanted to rape and kill a girl.

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I think her murder had less to do with her being female and more with her being an "outsider" and vulnerable and an easy target. If it wasn't her, they may have targeted a boy if he was in a similar situation to her's. Obviously I'm speculating here because I don't know but based on what I have read, I think they just wanted to kill someone.

It had nothing to do with gender, in fact the whole bullying was begun by her very own gender caused by their jealousy of her natural beauty but unfortunately she was far too innocent for them. It took two thugs to finalize the bullying and as someone else posted it could have been a boy. The sex-act done on her was further degradation of her when she was unconscious or dead which shows the vile beast they were.

mrjoneill wrote: »

It had nothing to do with gender, in fact the whole bullying was begun by her very own gender caused by their jealousy of her natural beauty but unfortunately she was far too innocent for them. It took two thugs to finalize the bullying and as someone else posted it could have been a boy. The sex-act done on her was further degradation of her when she was unconscious or dead which shows the vile beast they were.

Where are you getting this from? I read that she seemed to have been bullied mainly because her disabilities (partial deafness) meant that she struggled in school and that she was very naive.

Her mother mentioned her size as being a factor. I don't remember hearing anything about girls being jealous of her beauty. I think you're looking at her as adults do, and not how 13 year old girls see each other.

I haven't heard anything about other girls being the instigators of the exclusion (though obviously they were part of it), never mind that these two boys were influenced by the opinion of the girls.

As for the idea that rape and murder are merely "finalising" an act of bullying by 13 year olds, well. I wonder about some people.

Nothing to do with gender imo.

She was obviously a 'freak' to them. They wanted to do bad, mean things to her.

They clearly wanted to carry out whatever fxxked up fantasies they had from watching extreme porn, or whatever they imagined in their psycho heads.

She could have just as easily been a boy and they would have done everything else minus the sexual assault.

It was clearly a bully motive, deep hatred for the 'outsider' or the 'weirdo' that they took way way too far.

The people saying, the bullies were 'jealous' of her beauty, are probably middle aged. That's not how 13 year old bullies brains work. The mean ones can be lethal!

Theres no way anyone that bullied Ana was jealous of her, she was treated as an outsider, the typical sort, maybe dressed like a goth or acted strange compared to the rest of the class, very tall and big. Just mean to her because she didn't fit into their category of 'cool' or 'okay'

Its feckin disgusting how teens can treat others, when they don't fit into their little box of what they consider normal, especially when ganged up with a few friends.

Terribly sad case alltogether. Imagine the faces and guilt all those who also bullied her down through the years will feel. And rightly so.

dartboardio wrote: »

Nothing to do with gender imo.

She was obviously a 'freak' to them. They wanted to do bad, mean things to her.

They clearly wanted to carry out whatever fxxked up fantasies they had from watching extreme porn, or whatever they imagined in their psycho heads.

She could have just as easily been a boy and they would have done everything else minus the sexual assault.

It was clearly a bully motive, deep hatred for the 'outsider' or the 'weirdo' that they took way way too far.

This doesn't even make sense. It wasn't a boy who was attacked, and she was raped as well as murdered - and you're even blaming porn for it yourself. So either there's a sexual motive or there isn't, and if there isn't, then it's nothing to do with porn.

What exactly would have been needed for you to accept that there was a sexual element to the attack? A second rape? Not killing her? What if that was part of getting away with the rape? What about rapists who murder their victims - are those killings not related to gender either?

dartboardio wrote: »

Nothing to do with gender imo.

She was obviously a 'freak' to them. They wanted to do bad, mean things to her.

They clearly wanted to carry out whatever fxxked up fantasies they had from watching extreme porn, or whatever they imagined in their psycho heads.

She could have just as easily been a boy and they would have done everything else minus the sexual assault.

It was clearly a bully motive, deep hatred for the 'outsider' or the 'weirdo' that they took way way too far.

The people saying, the bullies were 'jealous' of her beauty, are probably middle aged. That's not how 13 year old bullies brains work. The mean ones can be lethal!

Theres no way anyone that bullied Ana was jealous of her, she was treated as an outsider, the typical sort, maybe dressed like a goth or acted strange compared to the rest of the class, very tall and big. Just mean to her because she didn't fit into their category of 'cool' or 'okay'

Its feckin disgusting how teens can treat others, when they don't fit into their little box of what they consider normal, especially when ganged up with a few friends.

Terribly sad case alltogether. Imagine the faces and guilt all those who also bullied her down through the years will feel. And rightly so.

No, you're completely wrong if you think that 13 year olds are not jealous of beauty. It's is you who does not understand the teenage mind if you don't realise that.

dartboardio wrote: »

Sorry? Did you not read my post properly?

I said it was nothing to do with her gender, it was nothing to do with her being female. It was just because she was who she was.

I never said there wasn't a sexual element, everyone knows there was. And they were charged with sexual assault also surely, no?

Jeez

You edited your post while I was typing, so it's a bit much to tell me I didn't read it. You changed your post to try and make a bit more sense - but that's not my fault.

I actually agree with you that the other kids probably didn't feel that she was beautiful, her other disabilities, including her height, clearly negated that in their minds, otherwise they wouldn't have bullied her - they'd have wanted to be with her.

I still don't see how you can say that the attack had a sexual motive but had nothing to do with her gender though. Especially when you yourself linked it to porn. What differences in the attack would have made you think it was gender related?

dartboardio wrote: »

Of course they are. But also very nasty for the sake of it, or if someone isn't deemed 'normal' in their mind.

You actually said "this is not how the teenage mind works" which is trying to suggest that teenagers are never jealous.

Try to deny that if you like but please go back and read your post and see how it reads.

volchitsa wrote: »

This doesn't even make sense. It wasn't a boy who was attacked, and she was raped as well as murdered - and you're even blaming porn for it yourself. So either there's a sexual motive or there isn't, and if there isn't, then it's nothing to do with porn.

What exactly would have been needed for you to accept that there was a sexual element to the attack? A second rape? Not killing her? What if that was part of getting away with the rape? What about rapists who murder their victims - are those killings not related to gender either?

Was she raped? I never heard anything about that. If you have a link I would be happy to read it. There was no conviction of rape.

pinkyeye wrote: »

You actually said "this is not how the teenage mind works" which is trying to suggest that teenagers are never jealous.

Try to deny that if you like but please go back and read your post and see how it reads.

Well then apologies for my misleading you. Or getting my words mixed.

Teenagers can get jealous, but jealousy was definitely Not a factor in this case. It's clear to see.

Two or three girls might bully a fellow girl if they were jealous. Not multiple people, boys and girls.

splinter65 wrote: »

This is nonsense. It’s entirely a woman’s choice today wether she has children or not. That is a desicion she makes with the other parent of her child, if she has one, or for herself if she doesn’t.
Making that choice she has the prior knowledge that if she and her partner both go to work then childcare arrangements will have to be in place. So she can make choices about that based on her circumstances before she even conceives.
If a woman makes a choice to have a child and then chooses to stay at home from work and look after the child herself then whos the hell Business is that except hers?
You can’t give women the information and the choice and then expect to be allowed to complain afterwards?

Pretty much this imho. The truth is that while there may be cases where one partner is more pushy for their choices, that partner can be male or female, and plenty of men are left working longer hours to make up for a partners foregone salary that “just wasn’t worth it compared to having those years with the kids”. Fortunately the handmaids tale isn’t actually a real life documentary in spite of what certain media commentators might present

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

That tiny percentage is almost entirely male. The same as the people who commit serious (and not so serious assaults) are predominantly male. there is a problem with male violence in society. to think otherwise is to put your head in the sand.

Since you’re so preoccupied on that tiny percentage, let’s look at some details on child killings: globally parents commit 56% of child killings. Of those over half are committed by the mother. Do you think maybe a better way to protect children would be to teach parents not to murder their children? Maybe have don’t kill your children classes for mothers as a risk group? Perhaps an Irish times op ed is needed to highlight this?

Sounds ridiculous doesn’t it? Yet the IT identity politics baiting nonsense is no less ridiculous. It looks to place blame on a demographic for the actions of a tiny few. Exclude gangland type killings (where frankly nice course on being nice aren’t much benefit) and that drops even further.

That’s not to say I think there isn’t a problem with random violence in society btw. The level of random assaults, often fueled by drink or drugs is too high and root causes should have been tackled long ago. Dv by both genders is a problem that needs resources (especially for male victims). I just don’t buy this bull**** that somehow an innocent life has more or less value in highlighting and protecting based on their gender.

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Was she raped? I never heard anything about that. If you have a link I would be happy to read it. There was no conviction of rape.

The state pathologist said there was 'penetration or attempted penetration' with an object that could not be identified. Hence the aggravated sexual sexual assault charge.

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I don't think there is a problem with "male violence" as opposed to female, it's just a consequence of biology that men are stronger and therefore do more damage if they do hit someone. I think women are every bit as likely to react violently as men, maybe even more so.

I'm not sure that's a great argument for there not being a problem with male violence - could a 6 foot muscle bound man use it as a defence in why he killed a skinny 15 year old for instance? "Oh I didn't mean to but he was actually more violent than me, just less effective"?

The other problem with your claim is that women don't kill as many babies and small children as men do, and yet their physical size is not what's stopping them.