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Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

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    #8132
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users Posts: 18,134 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    These new Shannon flights. Would the aircraft not make more money out of Dublin or elsewhere?

    It would be impractical to use them elsewhere as they're only available for short periods between the arriving and departing transatlantic flights, once the A321's head off to the US the A320 has to be back in Shannon to operate Heathrow.


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    #8133
    sherology
    Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭sherology


    cson wrote: »
    Booking a stopover is definitely not an intuitive experience on the website. Unless you can do it easily online, as you could with WOW and Icelandair, then folks won't bother calling in to do it - or indeed even be aware its an option.

    That was my thinking EI-wide... Average Joe wouldn't think of it as an offering... If Failte Ireland (is that what they're called) sponsored a 'why not spend some time in Ireland' screen as part of the booking... EI may be able to direct folks to their package holidays and earn commission from F-Ireland for their effort... All routes, not just SNN.

    Anywho... Just a thought... Not about fleet so l'll shurrup :)


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    #8134
    Van.Bosch
    Registered Users Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch


    JCX BXC wrote: »
    It would be impractical to use them elsewhere as they're only available for short periods between the arriving and departing transatlantic flights, once the A321's head off to the US the A320 has to be back in Shannon to operate Heathrow.

    I suppose the wider (unpopular) question is could the aircraft make more money in Dublin if it was there full-time and you dropped all SNN short haul flying.


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    #8135
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users Posts: 18,134 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    Van.Bosch wrote: »
    I suppose the wider (unpopular) question is could the aircraft make more money in Dublin if it was there full-time and you dropped all SNN short haul flying.

    Which aircraft exactly, the A320?

    In essence, that's a question of whether the Heathrow route is strong enough.


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    #8136
    Shn99
    Registered Users Posts: 1,353 ✭✭✭Shn99


    Van.Bosch wrote: »
    I suppose the wider (unpopular) question is could the aircraft make more money in Dublin if it was there full-time and you dropped all SNN short haul flying.

    Aer Lingus wouldnt have the aircraft in SNN if it would.


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    #8137
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,584 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Van.Bosch wrote: »
    I suppose the wider (unpopular) question is could the aircraft make more money in Dublin if it was there full-time and you dropped all SNN short haul flying.

    I think the fact that they re-established the route after abandoning it answers that question.


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    #8138
    cson
    Registered Users Posts: 14,421 ✭✭✭✭cson


    Van.Bosch wrote: »
    I suppose the wider (unpopular) question is could the aircraft make more money in Dublin if it was there full-time and you dropped all SNN short haul flying.

    You're looking at it from the prism of O&D traffic ex SNN.

    This is absolutely a play to gain share in the North American -> Europe transatlantic market. It's one of the most price sensitive markets in the aviation world and a stopover in SNN on the way to BCN or CDG, if priced right, would be palatable to travelers from North America. I'd hazard the A320s on SNN-BCN/CDG will be ~2/3s transfer traffic.


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    #8139
    HTCOne
    Registered Users Posts: 873 ✭✭✭HTCOne


    A condition of the Government selling their shares to IAG was SNN-LHR not be touched for 7 years, so if the aircraft has to be there most of the day anyway, may as well get an extra sector out of it.


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    #8140
    Locker10a
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,157 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    HTCOne wrote: »
    A condition of the Government selling their shares to IAG was SNN-LHR not be touched for 7 years, so if the aircraft has to be there most of the day anyway, may as well get an extra sector out of it.

    They could technically run it on a W pattern, I could be wrong but I think this is how BHD-LHR is operated.
    I hope SNN operations continue to be successful and grow and it proves an efficient mini transfer point for JFK/BOS - to UK and Europe


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    #8141
    HTCOne
    Registered Users Posts: 873 ✭✭✭HTCOne


    Locker10a wrote: »
    They could technically run it on a W pattern, I could be wrong but I think this is how BHD-LHR is operated.
    I hope SNN operations continue to be successful and grow and it proves an efficient mini transfer point for JFK/BOS - to UK and Europe

    There’s a CC base but no Pilot base in SNN so a W pattern might not make financial sense in having to move CC around on top of Flight Crew. Pilots are bussed / taxied down. Having 3 based aircraft of 2 different types justified a CC base but not Pilots. Now that all 3 based frames will be the same type rating, a pilot base might be justified again. If it’s something pilots want, they should certainly push for it.


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    #8142
    cson
    Registered Users Posts: 14,421 ✭✭✭✭cson


    Be a lot cheaper to live in Shannon anyway for a pilot.


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    #8143
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,681 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    SNN-LHR is a strong performer as are all LHR routes. Another hub carrier at SNN would likely put it under some pressure. Interesting to see what if anything IAG do with slots in future but as LHR expects a new runway the risks have somewhat reduced.

    Something more interesting to discuss here soon!

    On a side not guess nothing of significant was discussed at Capital Markets Day yesterday relating to EI?


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    #8144
    Jack1985
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Jack1985


    Factual background;

    EI Cabin Crew bases - DUB, ORK, SNN and BHD.
    EI Flight Deck bases - DUB and ORK.

    Belfast City
    Crewed using based Cabin Crew (Supplemented by DUB CC via London overnights ex/to-DUB).

    Flight Deck operate BHD flights via London overnights ex/to-DUB. There is some ad-hoc positioning by road duties for DUB CC and FD.

    Shannon
    All flights crewed by based Cabin Crew (Supplemented where required by DUB/ORK* CC via positioning by road duties).

    Flight Deck, DUB crew currently operating SNN flights via London overnights ex/to-DUB (including NEO) supplemented by Cork FD (including NEO ops) with overnighting in SNN. There is also some ad-hoc positioning by road.

    *Currently to cover A320 services only.


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    #8145
    Aviation2K16
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38 ✭Aviation2K16


    Jack1985 wrote: »
    Factual background;

    EI Cabin Crew bases - DUB, ORK, SNN and BHD.
    EI Flight Deck bases - DUB and ORK.

    Belfast City
    Crewed using based Cabin Crew (Supplemented by DUB CC via London overnights ex/to-DUB).

    Flight Deck operate BHD flights via London overnights ex/to-DUB. There is some ad-hoc positioning by road duties for DUB CC and FD.

    Shannon
    All flights crewed by based Cabin Crew (Supplemented where required by DUB/ORK* CC via positioning by road duties).

    Flight Deck, DUB crew currently operating SNN flights via London overnights ex/to-DUB (including NEO) supplemented by Cork FD (including NEO ops) with overnighting in SNN. There is also some ad-hoc positioning by road.

    *Currently to cover A320 services only.

    The SNN crew will still crew the transatlantic flights? I presume they move over to the A321LR from the 757?


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    #8146
    Conor84
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭Conor84


    cson wrote: »
    You're looking at it from the prism of O&D traffic ex SNN.

    This is absolutely a play to gain share in the North American -> Europe transatlantic market. It's one of the most price sensitive markets in the aviation world and a stopover in SNN on the way to BCN or CDG, if priced right, would be palatable to travelers from North America. I'd hazard the A320s on SNN-BCN/CDG will be ~2/3s transfer traffic.

    Barcelona will be pretty much all local traffic as connections won't work ex USA with 0540 and 0600 arrivals from New York and Boston but Barcelona departs at 6am as this is the overnighting A320 aircraft. Paris departs at 7am so that would work for connections.

    I wonder how many connections are made from LHR for the Shannon transatlantic flights when compared to the numbers on these routes via Dublin?


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    #8147
    sherology
    Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭sherology


    Locker10a wrote: »
    They could technically run it on a W pattern, I could be wrong but I think this is how BHD-LHR is operated.
    I hope SNN operations continue to be successful and grow and it proves an efficient mini transfer point for JFK/BOS - to UK and Europe

    Me too... No queues for... Well anything... Your next gate is... Over there :) CBP has no Q... Hope it works... Could be the solidifier SNN needs to make euro-routes viable


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    #8148
    kevinandrew
    Registered Users Posts: 1,215 ✭✭✭kevinandrew


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    On a side not guess nothing of significant was discussed at Capital Markets Day yesterday relating to EI?

    Absolutely nothing. It was fairly light on detail for all the airlines outside of their financials but Aer Lingus in particular had little to no mention.

    At least BA got a slide to itself on the roll out of its new club seat...


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    #8149
    Jack1985
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Jack1985


    Aviation2K16 wrote: »
    The SNN crew will still crew the transatlantic flights? I presume they move over to the A321LR from the 757?

    Conversion training has been well under way since July of this year with a new cabin mockup installed in the Aer Lingus Training Academy. To facilitate the retirement process the IAA has allowed Cabin Crew to operate on the A320, A321LR and B757 for a period of 9 months.


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    #8150
    Locker10a
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,157 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    Jack1985 wrote: »
    Conversion training has been well under way since July of this year with a new cabin mockup installed in the Aer Lingus Training Academy. To facilitate the retirement process the IAA has allowed Cabin Crew to operate on the A320, A321LR and B757 for a period of 9 months.

    Are you not allowed 3 types anyway!?
    It would make sense to have a pilots base in SNN again now, surely it would cost less than the constant overnighting of pilots and sending them in taxis to/from Dublin


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    #8151
    Aviation2K16
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38 ✭Aviation2K16


    Jack1985 wrote: »
    Conversion training has been well under way since July of this year with a new cabin mockup installed in the Aer Lingus Training Academy. To facilitate the retirement process the IAA has allowed Cabin Crew to operate on the A320, A321LR and B757 for a period of 9 months.

    Thanks for this information. Agree with the above post. It would make sense to have a pilot base in Shannon now since it has 3 Airbus based.


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    #8152
    Jack1985
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Jack1985


    Locker10a wrote: »
    Are you not allowed 3 types anyway!?

    Previously no, IAA stated that when operating mixed fleets in ROI (Airbus and Boeing) Cabin Crew could only operate one of each type, EI then applied for that to be A320 and B757 for maximum utilisation of associated crew - When the A319 was present and one was based at SNN the stipulation was that SNN crew could only fly A319 & B757.

    If you fly Airbus only - ROI Cabin Crew can fly all A320 family and A330-200/300 series aircraft. During the retirement phase of the B757 in order to ensure operational flexibility the IAA allowed EI to add the A321neoLR to Cabin Crew's licences for a period of 9 months effective 01/08/19.

    The decision for an EI crew base at SNN lies with EI and I don't see it happening anytime soon nor does anyone in EI expect it.


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    #8153
    basill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,348 ✭✭✭basill


    They will never have a SNN flight crew base. Operational flexibility......The airline is Dublin centric - has been and always will be.


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    #8154
    sandbelter
    Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭sandbelter


    kevinandrew wrote: »
    Absolutely nothing. It was fairly light on detail for all the airlines outside of their financials but Aer Lingus in particular had little to no mention.

    At least BA got a slide to itself on the roll out of its new club seat...

    Very little.

    No sign of an EI A330 replacement (on P125), so it looks as if they still be flying circa 2030. But it appears the last BA B772's will be gone at the end of the next decade.
    Fleet from 56 to 60 by 2022.


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    #8155
    EI321
    Registered Users Posts: 166 ✭✭EI321


    With EI already taking some of the last few A330-300s on order from Airbus, surely its only a matter of time before they have to seriously consider the A330neo.


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    #8156
    alancostello
    Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭alancostello


    EI321 wrote: »
    With EI already taking some of the last few A330-300s on order from Airbus, surely its only a matter of time before they have to seriously consider the A330neo.

    I wouldn’t be surprised to see IB taking more A350s (potentially including the remainder of EI’s original order) and EI taking over some of IB’s A330s. With the Air Europa purchase and their Boeing fleet LEVEL’s A330s may even be contenders for EI.

    A330neo for EI is likely a good few years away.


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    #8157
    Tenger
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,743 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    alancostello wrote: »
    I wouldn’t be surprised to see IB taking more A350s (potentially including the remainder of EI’s original order) and EI taking over some of IB’s A330s. With the Air Europa purchase and their Boeing fleet LEVEL’s A330s may even be contenders for EI.

    A330neo for EI is likely a good few years away.
    Iberia have taken all 9 of the EI A350 orders. Saw an article 18 months ago stating that Iberia will get WiFi on all 24 A350s. "Officially" (Wikipedia and public releases) they had previously ordered 15 A350s.

    It's a no brainer that EI are examining the A330neo. No way Airbus allowed them to order 2 of the last ceo's without a conversation about switching to neo. I'm pretty confident we will see an A330neo in service within 4 years. (Those - 200s need replacement)


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    #8158
    Time Magazine
    Registered Users Posts: 8,452 ✭✭✭Time Magazine


    En route home on a new 320neo IAD-DUB tomorrow :pac:


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    #8159
    OU812
    Registered Users Posts: 6,038 ✭✭✭OU812


    Discussions with Stewart apparently


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    #8160
    kevinandrew
    Registered Users Posts: 1,215 ✭✭✭kevinandrew


    No doubt they’d be more successful than Norwegian but would Aer Lingus seriously consider assigning an aircraft for such a low yielding route in a region they already serve remarkably well via JFK, EWR, BDL and to a lesser extent BOS and even PHL?!

    I’m sure Stewart would throw plenty of cash their way and they’d make a tidy profit but still, it wouldn’t be on my wish list of routes if I had one.


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    #8161
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users Posts: 18,134 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    kevinandrew wrote: »
    No doubt they’d be more successful than Norwegian but would Aer Lingus seriously consider assigning an aircraft for such a low yielding route in a region they already serve remarkably well via JFK, EWR, BDL and to a lesser extent BOS and even PHL?!

    I’m sure Stewart would throw plenty of cash their way and they’d make a tidy profit but still, it wouldn’t be on my wish list of routes if I had one.

    Perhaps one of the added A321's?


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