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TV Licence racket

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  • 04-11-2019 1:56pm
    #1
    sheepsh4gger
    Registered Users Posts: 622 ✭✭✭


    Let me start by saying that I'm not one of these people who actually own a TV and try to doge paying. Though I can understand why someone would try to boycott this outdated nonsense.

    I can't stand RTÉ, it's garbage. My contract with Virgin Media is 'Naked Broadband' which means it's purely an internet connection with no IP TV. I watch Youtube/Dlive/Twitch.

    None of the devices I own have a TV tuner. I only have computer monitors. One of them has an is a CRT which I use with light guns on the Dreamcast. The device itself only takes VGA input, it's not capable of being a TV. It's purely a display device.

    The place I live in is an apartment building. There's a TV antenna on the roof, the cable is split and each apartment has a socket on the wall they can connect a TV into if they choose to own one. The only guys who have TVs are pensioners who I'm guessing have an exemption.

    Some of these guys are starting to lose their faculties, they will let anyone into the hallway.

    Anyway I got a letter from a TV License inspector saying there's no set registered at this address. That is correct. It's because there's no TV.

    The name on the letter is for a previous tenant, not the last one (which I know the name of) but the one before, prolly like 10 years ago.

    In another country you could fill in a form and self-declare that you do not own a TV. The An Post page has no form for it.

    Should I:
    1. Ignore them completely: letters and possible banging on the door
    2. Contact them via snail mail/email and tell them I have no TV

    TBH I'd rather not give them my name. I never had a positive experience dealing with An Post. They usually have low IQ and I don't know what they will use it for (prolly post it on the public internet, leak it to advertisers).
    Also I don't want some dodgy guy in my apartment looking at things like he's a cop. He will probably think the PC monitor from 2001 is a TV.
    Tagged:


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    #2
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    sheepsh4gger wrote: »
    In another country you could fill in a form and self-declare that you do not own a TV. The An Post page has no form for it.

    You can self declare here also and there is a form for it from An Post:-

    http://www.anpost.ie/AnPost/Downloads/TVLicence/StatutoryDeclaration.pdf


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    #3
    Dutchy
    Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭Dutchy


    Isn't it illegal to open up someone else's mail ? Therefore, it not addressed to you , best to ignore and stay on the side of the law.


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    #4
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    If you're looking for sympathy, maybe you should be a bit more considerate? Referring in disparaging terms to your elderly neighbours and An Post staff doesn't reflect well.

    That said, we had no TV for a few years or monitors for that matter. Simply replied back to any An Post letter with this information. When we got a TV again, we paid the licence.

    I can see the 'TV licence' being replaced with some sort of 'media licence' for households and businesses. Long overdue and I'm sure you'll happily pay then as you'll be legally obliged to :)


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    #5
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Return to sender on the envelope.


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    #6
    rock22
    Registered Users Posts: 1,547 ✭✭✭rock22


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    If you're looking for sympathy, maybe you should be a bit more considerate? Referring in disparaging terms to your elderly neighbours and An Post staff doesn't reflect well.

    That said, we had no TV for a few years or monitors for that matter. Simply replied back to any An Post letter with this information. When we got a TV again, we paid the licence.
    oome sort of 'media licence' for households and businesses. Long overdue and I'm sure you'll happily pay then as you'll be legally obliged to :)

    Why long overdue?
    It means owning a computer for email will require payment of a fee to RTE even though no us is being made of their service.

    And I do have a TV and a licence and am happy to pay for it as I make use of it but I don't see why anyone you owns a computer should have to pay for RTE.


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    #7
    sheepsh4gger
    Registered Users Posts: 622 ✭✭✭sheepsh4gger


    GM228 wrote: »
    You can self declare here also and there is a form for it from An Post:-

    Thanks, that's what I was looking for.

    If you look up the robots.txt file of AnPost's domain you can see that they intentionally block forms from being indexed by search engines so you don't find them:
    User-agent: *
    Disallow: http: / /www .anpost .ie /AnPost /AnnualReportTemplate /AnnualReportTwoCol .aspx
    Disallow: http: / /www .anpost .ie /AnPost /postfone+staff+offer+terms+and+conditions .htm
    Disallow: https: / /www .anpost .ie /AnPost /postfone+staff+offer+terms+and+conditions .htm
    Disallow: http: / /www .anpost .ie /AnPost /MainContent /Business+Customers /Our+Business+Services /Campaign+Posting /Publicity+Post .htm
    Disallow: http: / /www .anpost .ie /AnPost /MainContent /Business+Customers /Our+Business+Services /Direct+Mail /Our+products+and+services /Publicity+Post .htm
    Disallow: http: / /www .anpost .ie /AnPost /MainContent /Business+Customers /Our+Business+Services /Direct+Mail /
    Disallow: http: / /www .anpost .ie /AnPost /MainContent /Business+Customers /Our+Business+Services /Campaign+Posting
    Disallow: http: / /www .anpost .ie /nr /rdonlyres /f981befc-c6a7-4dcf-9419-e8d2adb7d509 /0 /anpostsavingsntmadl_purple .pdf
    Disallow: http: / /www .anpost .ie /AnPost /Forum /
    Disallow: http: / /www .anpost .ie /AnPost /Mobile /
    Disallow: http: / /www .anpost .ie /AnPost /Downloads /


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    #8
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    sheepsh4gger wrote: »
    Thanks, that's what I was looking for.

    If you look up the robots.txt file of AnPost's domain you can see that they intentionally block forms from being indexed by search engines so you don't find them:

    The TV licence forms section for An Post is the first return when you Google "TV licence declaration". Pretty easy to find them with a general search.


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    #9
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    The wife was outside the house when they called, summons out in post.


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    #10
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    rock22 wrote: »
    Why long overdue?
    It means owning a computer for email will require payment of a fee to RTE even though no us is being made of their service.

    And I do have a TV and a licence and am happy to pay for it as I make use of it but I don't see why anyone you owns a computer should have to pay for RTE.

    There needs to be some form of public broadcasting in Ireland, whether via RTE TV, Radio, TG4 or RnG etc. Someone's got to pay for it i.e. the public. So it's quite reasonable for there to be a fee/ tax of some sort per household/ business. Part of the T&Cs of being a citizen as the ad says.


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    #11
    sheepsh4gger
    Registered Users Posts: 622 ✭✭✭sheepsh4gger


    I posted the exemption form today. We'll see what happens.

    This guy who comes to your house to check for TVs has a great opportunity to scope out your alarm system. I wonder if they even do a proper background check on those 'inspectors'. Also if he slips on the carpet your likely liable because you let him in.
    There needs to be some form of public broadcasting
    I believe in the free market. If their programing would be worth watching people would pay a subscription fee. The only reason they collect those licenses is because they don't want to compete on merit.


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    #12
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,777 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    There needs to be some form of public broadcasting in Ireland, whether via RTE TV, Radio, TG4 or RnG etc. Someone's got to pay for it i.e. the public. So it's quite reasonable for there to be a fee/ tax of some sort per household/ business. Part of the T&Cs of being a citizen as the ad says.


    Could do without public broadcasting myself. Although I pay the licence fee it galls me that Marian gets a massive take from it.


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    #13
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,740 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    There needs to be some form of public broadcasting in Ireland, whether via RTE TV, Radio, TG4 or RnG etc. Someone's got to pay for it i.e. the public. So it's quite reasonable for there to be a fee/ tax of some sort per household/ business. Part of the T&Cs of being a citizen as the ad says.

    Should be paid for through general taxation: we don't have special tax for schools or hospitals or roads no need for a special one for media either.


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    #14
    Snotty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭Snotty


    National broadcaster argument does not stand up, you can't legislate for the public to pay for it but still sell advertising, content and set wages far in excess of non public funded broadcasters.


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    #15
    Wildly Boaring
    Registered Users Posts: 3,631 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Should be paid for through general taxation: we don't have special tax for schools or hospitals or roads no need for a special one for media either.

    Along with water, roads, hospitals, schools, guards, housing.....

    But let me guess USC should be scrapped as it was temporary? Marginal rate is too high already?


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    #16
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,894 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    The wife was outside the house when they called, summons out in post.

    I really don't understand why people give their name.

    They can't send a summons to The Occupier.


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    #17
    The J Stands for Jay
    Registered Users Posts: 5,670 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    There needs to be some form of public broadcasting in Ireland, .

    Why?


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    #18
    The J Stands for Jay
    Registered Users Posts: 5,670 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    anewme wrote: »
    I really don't understand why people give their name.

    They can't send a summons to The Occupier.

    There was a guy in Dublin 1 years ago going round claiming to be adding names to the electoral register when he was really getting names of occupiers for tv licence letters.


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    #19
    Royale with Cheese
    Registered Users Posts: 9,029 ✭✭✭Royale with Cheese


    Wildly Boaring wrote: »
    Marginal rate is too high already?

    It is very high, it should be able to pay for a state broadcaster. RTE needs to be scaled back, traditional TV is dying and will continue to do so. I value its news service but haven't watched RTE itself it in years, I certainly don't think any public money should be going towards showing repeats of American/British shows in 2019.

    I live in an apartment with a Virgin media port, they switched analogue TV off this year and I don't pay for TV through virgin. I don't have RTE, yet I'm expected to pay for it because the TV I have in my living room for Xbox/Netflix/YouTube has a port that technically could receive a broadcast through? It's nonsense, I read the website for news almost daily and am not stupid enough to think this doesn't need to be paid for from somewhere. Going back to your point though, yes I feel I pay enough tax as it is already.


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    #20
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,894 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    McGaggs wrote: »
    There was a guy in Dublin 1 years ago going round claiming to be adding names to the electoral register when he was really getting names of occupiers for tv licence letters.

    In my sisters Estate they reported a guy lurking around the front of houses.

    Gardai were sent for and it was the TV licence guy getting the names off bin stickers on the bins!!


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    #21
    The J Stands for Jay
    Registered Users Posts: 5,670 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    anewme wrote: »
    In my sisters Estate they reported a guy lurking around the front of houses.

    Gardai were sent for and it was the TV licence guy getting the names off bin stickers on the bins!!

    I know on this website we throw out GDPR incorrectly all the time, bit this is actually a clear breach of it (and the previous Data Protection Acts). These lads should be reported to the Data Protection commissioner once the gardaí have confirmed they're not engaged in other criminal activity.


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    #22
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    McGaggs wrote: »
    I know on this website we throw out GDPR incorrectly all the time, bit this is actually a clear breach of it (and the previous Data Protection Acts). These lads should be reported to the Data Protection commissioner once the gardaí have confirmed they're not engaged in other criminal activity.

    Well, it could be said the inspector is looking for names as part of their investigation into preventing, detecting and investigating potential offences which is part of their statutory function - in which case GDPR is irrelevant as it does not apply to the preventing, detecting and investigating of criminal offences, it absolutely is not clear if there is any breach.


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    #23
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,894 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    GM228 wrote: »
    Well, it could be said the inspector is looking for names as part of their investigation into preventing, detecting and investigating potential offences which is part of their statutory function - in which case GDPR is irrelevant as it does not apply to the preventing, detecting and investigating of criminal offences, it absolutely is not clear if there is any breach.

    Interesting discussion, but it was pre-GDPR.

    I had another situation where the TV Licence Inspector said that a woman opened my door (on a Saturday) and said she was me and that she had no TV Licence but had a TV. It was interesting that it was a Saturday as most people work all week. As I live alone, there was no way anyone could have opened the door to him, so it was pure lies.


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    #24
    sheepsh4gger
    Registered Users Posts: 622 ✭✭✭sheepsh4gger


    McGaggs wrote: »
    I know on this website we throw out GDPR incorrectly all the time, bit this is actually a clear breach of it (and the previous Data Protection Acts). These lads should be reported to the Data Protection commissioner once the gardaí have confirmed they're not engaged in other criminal activity.
    Finally I'm not the only person who sees how data can be abused. Up to 2014 it was a complete wild west here.
    I never put up my name on any doorbells. I cancel all paper bills to make sure someone can't get my name/pps off lost/stolen mail.
    Once Boots asked me for my PPS for a vaccination booking. I said I'm not sharing that with them, it's private information.
    Lots of times companies get hacked and don't tell anyone about it. They use "default" as password, stupid things like that. So chances are these guys have us all one some Microsoft Access database file on a shared drive anyone in the post office can copy onto a USB stick some ransomeware will upload to the web and hackers will sell to each other.


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    #25
    The J Stands for Jay
    Registered Users Posts: 5,670 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    GM228 wrote: »
    Well, it could be said the inspector is looking for names as part of their investigation into preventing, detecting and investigating potential offences which is part of their statutory function - in which case GDPR is irrelevant as it does not apply to the preventing, detecting and investigating of criminal offences, it absolutely is not clear if there is any breach.

    It is relevant in this case as they are not investigating potential offenses, they are updating their "customer" database.


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    #26
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,894 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    McGaggs wrote: »
    It is relevant in this case as they are not investigating potential offenses, they are updating their "customer" database.

    Best bit for me was that he was caught out being a liar as I was out of the Country and my flight ticket showed me being in mid air at the exact same time as I opened the door to him!


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    #27
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,563 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    anewme wrote: »
    I really don't understand why people give their name.

    They can't send a summons to The Occupier.
    This tbh
    Don't give details, don't fill out anything
    If they don't have your name for the love of god dont open the door to them.


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    #28
    antix80
    Registered Users Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭antix80


    Just ignore the inspector and his letters. No need to waste time filling in declarations or letting him into your home. It's one of the "terms and conditions of living in Ireland" - you're under no obligation to engage with these people and if they don't like that they should find a more productive and rewarding way of making a living.


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    #29
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,563 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Under no circumstances grant them access to your home. They have no legal recourse to enforce entry, they can only ask. If you tell them no then they must leave


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    #30
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,894 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    ELM327 wrote: »
    This tbh
    Don't give details, don't fill out anything
    If they don't have your name for the love of god dont open the door to them.

    I was house sitting for someone one time (who clearly had no licence as he knocked) but I didnt know and opened the door.

    I said I dont live here, they are away. He asked for their names. I said, no, you will have to come back and talk to them yourself. He then asked for my name (which would have resulted in me getting a summons at their address) so I just said, no, I'm not giving my name.

    End of.


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    #31
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    McGaggs wrote: »
    It is relevant in this case as they are not investigating potential offenses, they are updating their "customer" database.

    They could argue the opposite, names and addresses are necessary for the investigation of offences, especially when a summons is required.


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Under no circumstances grant them access to your home. They have no legal recourse to enforce entry, they can only ask. If you tell them no then they must leave

    They have lawful authority to enter any premises at a reasonable time, they just can't use force to do so, you could say no and an inspector can lawfully walk right past you into your home provided no force is used to see if you have a TV.


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