TV Licence racket

sheepsh4gger

Let me start by saying that I'm not one of these people who actually own a TV and try to doge paying. Though I can understand why someone would try to boycott this outdated nonsense.

I can't stand RTÉ, it's garbage. My contract with Virgin Media is 'Naked Broadband' which means it's purely an internet connection with no IP TV. I watch Youtube/Dlive/Twitch.

None of the devices I own have a TV tuner. I only have computer monitors. One of them has an is a CRT which I use with light guns on the Dreamcast. The device itself only takes VGA input, it's not capable of being a TV. It's purely a display device.

The place I live in is an apartment building. There's a TV antenna on the roof, the cable is split and each apartment has a socket on the wall they can connect a TV into if they choose to own one. The only guys who have TVs are pensioners who I'm guessing have an exemption.

Some of these guys are starting to lose their faculties, they will let anyone into the hallway.

Anyway I got a letter from a TV License inspector saying there's no set registered at this address. That is correct. It's because there's no TV.

The name on the letter is for a previous tenant, not the last one (which I know the name of) but the one before, prolly like 10 years ago.

In another country you could fill in a form and self-declare that you do not own a TV. The An Post page has no form for it.

Should I:
1. Ignore them completely: letters and possible banging on the door
2. Contact them via snail mail/email and tell them I have no TV

TBH I'd rather not give them my name. I never had a positive experience dealing with An Post. They usually have low IQ and I don't know what they will use it for (prolly post it on the public internet, leak it to advertisers).
Also I don't want some dodgy guy in my apartment looking at things like he's a cop. He will probably think the PC monitor from 2001 is a TV.

GM228

sheepsh4gger wrote: »

In another country you could fill in a form and self-declare that you do not own a TV. The An Post page has no form for it.

You can self declare here also and there is a form for it from An Post:-

http://www.anpost.ie/AnPost/Downloads/TVLicence/StatutoryDeclaration.pdf

Dutchy

Isn't it illegal to open up someone else's mail ? Therefore, it not addressed to you , best to ignore and stay on the side of the law.

BarryD2

If you're looking for sympathy, maybe you should be a bit more considerate? Referring in disparaging terms to your elderly neighbours and An Post staff doesn't reflect well.

That said, we had no TV for a few years or monitors for that matter. Simply replied back to any An Post letter with this information. When we got a TV again, we paid the licence.

I can see the 'TV licence' being replaced with some sort of 'media licence' for households and businesses. Long overdue and I'm sure you'll happily pay then as you'll be legally obliged to

punisher5112

Return to sender on the envelope.

rock22

BarryD2 wrote: »

If you're looking for sympathy, maybe you should be a bit more considerate? Referring in disparaging terms to your elderly neighbours and An Post staff doesn't reflect well.

That said, we had no TV for a few years or monitors for that matter. Simply replied back to any An Post letter with this information. When we got a TV again, we paid the licence.
oome sort of 'media licence' for households and businesses. Long overdue and I'm sure you'll happily pay then as you'll be legally obliged to

Why long overdue?
It means owning a computer for email will require payment of a fee to RTE even though no us is being made of their service.

And I do have a TV and a licence and am happy to pay for it as I make use of it but I don't see why anyone you owns a computer should have to pay for RTE.

sheepsh4gger

GM228 wrote: »

You can self declare here also and there is a form for it from An Post:-

Thanks, that's what I was looking for.

If you look up the robots.txt file of AnPost's domain you can see that they intentionally block forms from being indexed by search engines so you don't find them:

User-agent: *
Disallow: http: / /www .anpost .ie /AnPost /AnnualReportTemplate /AnnualReportTwoCol .aspx
Disallow: http: / /www .anpost .ie /AnPost /postfone+staff+offer+terms+and+conditions .htm
Disallow: https: / /www .anpost .ie /AnPost /postfone+staff+offer+terms+and+conditions .htm
Disallow: http: / /www .anpost .ie /AnPost /MainContent /Business+Customers /Our+Business+Services /Campaign+Posting /Publicity+Post .htm
Disallow: http: / /www .anpost .ie /AnPost /MainContent /Business+Customers /Our+Business+Services /Direct+Mail /Our+products+and+services /Publicity+Post .htm
Disallow: http: / /www .anpost .ie /AnPost /MainContent /Business+Customers /Our+Business+Services /Direct+Mail /
Disallow: http: / /www .anpost .ie /AnPost /MainContent /Business+Customers /Our+Business+Services /Campaign+Posting
Disallow: http: / /www .anpost .ie /nr /rdonlyres /f981befc-c6a7-4dcf-9419-e8d2adb7d509 /0 /anpostsavingsntmadl_purple .pdf
Disallow: http: / /www .anpost .ie /AnPost /Forum /
Disallow: http: / /www .anpost .ie /AnPost /Mobile /
Disallow: http: / /www .anpost .ie /AnPost /Downloads /

GM228

sheepsh4gger wrote: »

Thanks, that's what I was looking for.

If you look up the robots.txt file of AnPost's domain you can see that they intentionally block forms from being indexed by search engines so you don't find them:

The TV licence forms section for An Post is the first return when you Google "TV licence declaration". Pretty easy to find them with a general search.

punisher5112

The wife was outside the house when they called, summons out in post.

BarryD2

rock22 wrote: »

Why long overdue?
It means owning a computer for email will require payment of a fee to RTE even though no us is being made of their service.

And I do have a TV and a licence and am happy to pay for it as I make use of it but I don't see why anyone you owns a computer should have to pay for RTE.

There needs to be some form of public broadcasting in Ireland, whether via RTE TV, Radio, TG4 or RnG etc. Someone's got to pay for it i.e. the public. So it's quite reasonable for there to be a fee/ tax of some sort per household/ business. Part of the T&Cs of being a citizen as the ad says.

sheepsh4gger

I posted the exemption form today. We'll see what happens.

This guy who comes to your house to check for TVs has a great opportunity to scope out your alarm system. I wonder if they even do a proper background check on those 'inspectors'. Also if he slips on the carpet your likely liable because you let him in.

There needs to be some form of public broadcasting

I believe in the free market. If their programing would be worth watching people would pay a subscription fee. The only reason they collect those licenses is because they don't want to compete on merit.

Fann Linn

BarryD2 wrote: »

There needs to be some form of public broadcasting in Ireland, whether via RTE TV, Radio, TG4 or RnG etc. Someone's got to pay for it i.e. the public. So it's quite reasonable for there to be a fee/ tax of some sort per household/ business. Part of the T&Cs of being a citizen as the ad says.

Could do without public broadcasting myself. Although I pay the licence fee it galls me that Marian gets a massive take from it.

Mrs OBumble

BarryD2 wrote: »

There needs to be some form of public broadcasting in Ireland, whether via RTE TV, Radio, TG4 or RnG etc. Someone's got to pay for it i.e. the public. So it's quite reasonable for there to be a fee/ tax of some sort per household/ business. Part of the T&Cs of being a citizen as the ad says.

Should be paid for through general taxation: we don't have special tax for schools or hospitals or roads no need for a special one for media either.

Snotty

National broadcaster argument does not stand up, you can't legislate for the public to pay for it but still sell advertising, content and set wages far in excess of non public funded broadcasters.

Wildly Boaring

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Should be paid for through general taxation: we don't have special tax for schools or hospitals or roads no need for a special one for media either.

Along with water, roads, hospitals, schools, guards, housing.....

But let me guess USC should be scrapped as it was temporary? Marginal rate is too high already?

anewme

punisher5112 wrote: »

The wife was outside the house when they called, summons out in post.

I really don't understand why people give their name.

They can't send a summons to The Occupier.

The J Stands for Jay

BarryD2 wrote: »

There needs to be some form of public broadcasting in Ireland, .

Why?

The J Stands for Jay

anewme wrote: »

I really don't understand why people give their name.

They can't send a summons to The Occupier.

There was a guy in Dublin 1 years ago going round claiming to be adding names to the electoral register when he was really getting names of occupiers for tv licence letters.

Royale with Cheese

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Marginal rate is too high already?

It is very high, it should be able to pay for a state broadcaster. RTE needs to be scaled back, traditional TV is dying and will continue to do so. I value its news service but haven't watched RTE itself it in years, I certainly don't think any public money should be going towards showing repeats of American/British shows in 2019.

I live in an apartment with a Virgin media port, they switched analogue TV off this year and I don't pay for TV through virgin. I don't have RTE, yet I'm expected to pay for it because the TV I have in my living room for Xbox/Netflix/YouTube has a port that technically could receive a broadcast through? It's nonsense, I read the website for news almost daily and am not stupid enough to think this doesn't need to be paid for from somewhere. Going back to your point though, yes I feel I pay enough tax as it is already.

anewme

McGaggs wrote: »

There was a guy in Dublin 1 years ago going round claiming to be adding names to the electoral register when he was really getting names of occupiers for tv licence letters.

In my sisters Estate they reported a guy lurking around the front of houses.

Gardai were sent for and it was the TV licence guy getting the names off bin stickers on the bins!!

The J Stands for Jay

anewme wrote: »

In my sisters Estate they reported a guy lurking around the front of houses.

Gardai were sent for and it was the TV licence guy getting the names off bin stickers on the bins!!

I know on this website we throw out GDPR incorrectly all the time, bit this is actually a clear breach of it (and the previous Data Protection Acts). These lads should be reported to the Data Protection commissioner once the gardaí have confirmed they're not engaged in other criminal activity.

GM228

McGaggs wrote: »

I know on this website we throw out GDPR incorrectly all the time, bit this is actually a clear breach of it (and the previous Data Protection Acts). These lads should be reported to the Data Protection commissioner once the gardaí have confirmed they're not engaged in other criminal activity.

Well, it could be said the inspector is looking for names as part of their investigation into preventing, detecting and investigating potential offences which is part of their statutory function - in which case GDPR is irrelevant as it does not apply to the preventing, detecting and investigating of criminal offences, it absolutely is not clear if there is any breach.

anewme

GM228 wrote: »

Well, it could be said the inspector is looking for names as part of their investigation into preventing, detecting and investigating potential offences which is part of their statutory function - in which case GDPR is irrelevant as it does not apply to the preventing, detecting and investigating of criminal offences, it absolutely is not clear if there is any breach.

Interesting discussion, but it was pre-GDPR.

I had another situation where the TV Licence Inspector said that a woman opened my door (on a Saturday) and said she was me and that she had no TV Licence but had a TV. It was interesting that it was a Saturday as most people work all week. As I live alone, there was no way anyone could have opened the door to him, so it was pure lies.

sheepsh4gger

McGaggs wrote: »

I know on this website we throw out GDPR incorrectly all the time, bit this is actually a clear breach of it (and the previous Data Protection Acts). These lads should be reported to the Data Protection commissioner once the gardaí have confirmed they're not engaged in other criminal activity.

Finally I'm not the only person who sees how data can be abused. Up to 2014 it was a complete wild west here.
I never put up my name on any doorbells. I cancel all paper bills to make sure someone can't get my name/pps off lost/stolen mail.
Once Boots asked me for my PPS for a vaccination booking. I said I'm not sharing that with them, it's private information.
Lots of times companies get hacked and don't tell anyone about it. They use "default" as password, stupid things like that. So chances are these guys have us all one some Microsoft Access database file on a shared drive anyone in the post office can copy onto a USB stick some ransomeware will upload to the web and hackers will sell to each other.

The J Stands for Jay

GM228 wrote: »

Well, it could be said the inspector is looking for names as part of their investigation into preventing, detecting and investigating potential offences which is part of their statutory function - in which case GDPR is irrelevant as it does not apply to the preventing, detecting and investigating of criminal offences, it absolutely is not clear if there is any breach.

It is relevant in this case as they are not investigating potential offenses, they are updating their "customer" database.

anewme

McGaggs wrote: »

It is relevant in this case as they are not investigating potential offenses, they are updating their "customer" database.

Best bit for me was that he was caught out being a liar as I was out of the Country and my flight ticket showed me being in mid air at the exact same time as I opened the door to him!

ELM327

anewme wrote: »

I really don't understand why people give their name.

They can't send a summons to The Occupier.

This tbh
Don't give details, don't fill out anything
If they don't have your name for the love of god dont open the door to them.

antix80

Just ignore the inspector and his letters. No need to waste time filling in declarations or letting him into your home. It's one of the "terms and conditions of living in Ireland" - you're under no obligation to engage with these people and if they don't like that they should find a more productive and rewarding way of making a living.

ELM327

Under no circumstances grant them access to your home. They have no legal recourse to enforce entry, they can only ask. If you tell them no then they must leave

anewme

ELM327 wrote: »

This tbh
Don't give details, don't fill out anything
If they don't have your name for the love of god dont open the door to them.

I was house sitting for someone one time (who clearly had no licence as he knocked) but I didnt know and opened the door.

I said I dont live here, they are away. He asked for their names. I said, no, you will have to come back and talk to them yourself. He then asked for my name (which would have resulted in me getting a summons at their address) so I just said, no, I'm not giving my name.

End of.

GM228

McGaggs wrote: »

It is relevant in this case as they are not investigating potential offenses, they are updating their "customer" database.

They could argue the opposite, names and addresses are necessary for the investigation of offences, especially when a summons is required.

ELM327 wrote: »

Under no circumstances grant them access to your home. They have no legal recourse to enforce entry, they can only ask. If you tell them no then they must leave

They have lawful authority to enter any premises at a reasonable time, they just can't use force to do so, you could say no and an inspector can lawfully walk right past you into your home provided no force is used to see if you have a TV.

c.p.w.g.w

anewme wrote: »

In my sisters Estate they reported a guy lurking around the front of houses.

Gardai were sent for and it was the TV licence guy getting the names off bin stickers on the bins!!

Bins are under a fake name...for the win

Lantus

BarryD2 wrote: »

There needs to be some form of public broadcasting in Ireland, whether via RTE TV, Radio, TG4 or RnG etc. Someone's got to pay for it i.e. the public. So it's quite reasonable for there to be a fee/ tax of some sort per household/ business. Part of the T&Cs of being a citizen as the ad says.

Who decides on this need? And why should we be forced to pay under threat of fine or prison?

Would love to read the t & C's of this contract. If its based on CONSENT I should be able to cease paying....

fritzelly

GM228 wrote: »

They have lawful authority to enter any premises at a reasonable time, they just can't use force to do so, you could say no and an inspector can lawfully walk right past you into your home provided no force is used to see if you have a TV.

Where is that written in law?

rightmove

What happens if they call speak to you to get a licence but dont ask for your name. Are they any better off if you ignore their request. This happened a lad at work and he went out and bought one. He didn't have one up to this point and they didn't have his name. My advice to him was when you pay you are on the hook forever so to speak

anewme

rightmove wrote: »

What happens if they call speak to you to get a licence but dont ask for your name. Are they any better off if you ignore their request. This happened a lad at work and he went out and bought one. He didn't have one up to this point and they didn't have his name. My advice to him was when you pay you are on the hook forever so to speak

The whole idea of them calling is to get a name. They will tell you to get one but ask your name and if you dont get one, then the letters start coming addressed to you.

They can't send a summons to The Occupier so they need a name.

Once you give your name, you are in the Database forever.

amadangomor

fritzelly wrote: »

Where is that written in law?

Exactly, also would get a rude awakening if tried to cross my threshold.

runawaybishop

fritzelly wrote: »

Where is that written in law?

Section 146

(3) An officer of an issuing agent may enter at any reasonable time any premises or specified place for the purposes of ascertaining whether there is a television set there and a television licence is for the time being in force in respect of the premises or specified place authorising the keeping of a television set at the premises or specified place.

If you refuse they can get a warrant and they also have the power to seize your TV etc.

PCeeeee

runawaybishop wrote: »

Section 146

(3) An officer of an issuing agent may enter at any reasonable time any premises or specified place for the purposes of ascertaining whether there is a television set there and a television licence is for the time being in force in respect of the premises or specified place authorising the keeping of a television set at the premises or specified place.

If you refuse they can get a warrant and they also have the power to seize your TV etc.

So they may enter but you can refuse entry? How is that any different to anyone?

Genuine question, I have no law experience.

sheepsh4gger

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Should be paid for through general taxation: we don't have special tax for schools or hospitals or roads no need for a special one for media either.

An it's not like if you give them money they will do anything with it other than lining their pockets. You have cars in Dublin literally hydroplaning through the streets because nothing is done about standing water. In say Germany the public wouldn't put up with this.

runawaybishop

PCeeeee wrote: »

So they may enter but you can refuse entry? How is that any different to anyone?

Genuine question, I have no law experience.

Me or you can't just walk into someone's house, they can without permission.

fritzelly

runawaybishop wrote: »

Section 146

(3) An officer of an issuing agent may enter at any reasonable time any premises or specified place for the purposes of ascertaining whether there is a television set there and a television licence is for the time being in force in respect of the premises or specified place authorising the keeping of a television set at the premises or specified place.

Sheez, even the gardai cant just enter your home like that

anewme

I don’t think you legally have to give your name either.

runawaybishop

fritzelly wrote: »

Sheez, even the gardai cant just enter your home like that

Gardai can enter under certain circumstances without a warrant, such as when they believe a crime is being committed

You don't have to give them your name, they have no powers to demand it.

PCeeeee

runawaybishop wrote: »

Me or you can't just walk into someone's house, they can without permission.

Thanks for the reply Bishop, I appreciate it. Could you humour me with another, if they can enter without permission then what the craic with getting a warrant? The warrant is to allow the Gardai in?

Seems extraordinary the Gardai need a warrant to enter your house but the TV inspector doesn't :eek:

runawaybishop

PCeeeee wrote: »

Thanks for the reply Bishop, I appreciate it. Could you humour me with another, if they can enter without permission then what the craic with getting a warrant? The warrant is to allow the Gardai in?

Seems extraordinary the Gardai need a warrant to enter your house but the TV inspector doesn't :eek:

If you block entry they cannot force it, but they can come back with the gardai and a warrant to ascertain if you have a TV. Its a pretty strong power just for a 160 euro TV license alright.

For what it's worth I do not think it's a power they exercise often. Far easier to claim they saw evidence of a TV.

riclad

I Was in a large old house ,with 8 people living there .
everyone had a tv.
i lived there for 1 year the landlord sold the house .i never saw any tv license inspector.
i never had a tv license .
I think they presume every house or apartment has a tv unless you fill in the form.
The reason for a tv license is it is only charged to people who have a tv.
You can still watch rte on a pc or a laptop free .on rte.ie .
I think what will happen is there will be a media license brought in,
any one who has cable tv,sky tv,or broadband service will have to pay it.
i think an post has acess to user data ,name adress for any one who subscibes to cable tv
or sky tv .

sheepsh4gger

riclad wrote: »

I Was in a large old house ,with 8 people living there .
everyone had a tv.
i lived there for 1 year the landlord sold the house .i never saw any tv license inspector.
i never had a tv license .
I think they presume every house or apartment has a tv unless you fill in the form.
The reason for a tv license is it is only charged to people who have a tv.
You can still watch rte on a pc or a laptop free .on rte.ie .
I think what will happen is there will be a media license brought in,
any one who has cable tv,sky tv,or broadband service will have to pay it.
i think an post has acess to user data ,name adress for any one who subscibes to cable tv
or sky tv .

It's stupid to begin with. Taxing for media. I wonder if in US they pay for owning a TV.