ESB eCars pricing introduction

JohnC. · 06-11-2019 05:16PM

slave1 wrote: »

I highly doubt Norway has just 400 DC chargers, that seems way too low to me

https://www.statista.com/statistics/696548/number-of-electric-car-charging-stations-in-norway-by-type/

According to that, 2018 figures, published in January 2019:
Standard 7,910 (I'm assuming "Standard" means the 22kW type?)
Chademo 50kW 1,103
CCS 50kW 1,087
Type 2 43kW 49
Tesla Supercharger 562

unkel · 06-11-2019 05:18PM

KCross wrote: »

I dont think anyone would disagree that we need lots more of the likes of that and yes Tesla had the vision because they had no ICE shackles holding them back.

None of that means that AC isnt hugely important also. We need both to increase in numbers.

I don't think anyone disagrees with that either. I for one am delighted I can plug into my tethered AC charger at home in the most effortless way possible. And charge with the cheapest and greenest rates. Next spring hopefully also free at times and truly 100% renewable from my own solar PV.

And work charging, in a few years with smart chargers largely on solar PV during the day (at a very low cost to the employer to install, with tax benefits too) is also hugely positive

We need far less DC chargers per capita than say the Netherlands, where not that many people have a private driveway.

Royale with Cheese · 06-11-2019 10:11PM

slave1 wrote: »

+1

ESB finally got back to me, my account is enabled now.

06-11-2019 10:12PM

I Received my new card today and activated it.

Black_Knight · 06-11-2019 11:00PM

ELM327 wrote: »

11kW is my car's max AC speed, like any other non dual/HP charging Tesla. It's very much a destination charger. 11kW means approx 56 km per hour of charging added in my model S

OMG we get it, you bought a Tesla! Stop harping on about it

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

McGiver · 07-11-2019 12:03AM

JohnC. wrote: »

https://www.statista.com/statistics/696548/number-of-electric-car-charging-stations-in-norway-by-type/

According to that, 2018 figures, published in January 2019:
Standard 7,910 (I'm assuming "Standard" means the 22kW type?)
Chademo 50kW 1,103
CCS 50kW 1,087
Type 2 43kW 49
Tesla Supercharger 562

Paywalled, can you post a picture?

Also pretty sure it's connectors not chargers and pretty sure many of them are multiple connectors per charger. And I don't count Tesla, that's a VIP network.

According to opencharge map Norway has 9813 charging stations in 2119 locations.

https://openchargemap.org/site/country#NO

Ireland: 1089 charging stations in 569 locations - exactly correct.

I had wrong number of DCs (maybe the DC figures I've seen were "locations"). My point stands - AC are vast majority of the chargers in Norway 78%. I'd expect tla similar situation in Germany, Sweden and the Netherlands.

McGiver · 07-11-2019 12:05AM

ELM327 wrote: »

11kW is my car's max AC speed, like any other non dual/HP charging Tesla. It's very much a destination charger. 11kW means approx 56 km per hour of charging added in my model S

No, it's not for normal cars say 50kW battery which can do 11 AC (or 22kW Zoe :P). Tesla is not a normal car... Yet.

McGiver · 07-11-2019 12:24AM

unkel wrote: »

And work charging, in a few years with smart chargers largely on solar PV during the day (at a very low cost to the employer to install, with tax benefits too) is also hugely positive

Very few employers are willing/able to install it unless it's an MNC. I wouldn't mind if incentives were put in place for this - currently there's no incentive apart from accelerated write-off which is pretty useless, it's a cash flow benefit but not tax benefit.

We need far less DC chargers per capita than say the Netherlands, where not that many people have a private driveway.

Did you mean AC or DC here?
This driveway thing is quite misleading. For example 35% households in Dublin live in apartments, similar would be the case for 3-4 largest cities. Apartment population also grows significantly faster than house population. Then there are people in houses who are renting, then there are people owning a house with no driveway. So the census figure of 12% households living in apartments in whole Ireland is meaningless in context. Cities are where the EV growth comes from, not villages/towns, so who cares that most rural folk live in houses? Unless there's some rural EV revolution I'm unaware of. It's an issue which needs sorting, and I'm not sure DC with current technical state of play (cars, batteries, chargers) will fix this. Also DC chargers are very expensive as I said.

EDIT: before you say it - I'm all for DC core infrastructure on ALL M and N roads spaced in regular distances and with multi connector setup as well, that needs to be done first, but AC is equally important, especially in cities.

Lumen · 07-11-2019 06:37AM

All new apartment/house developments seem to have allocated parking so there's no reason in principle why they can't have on street chargers with an RFID or smartphone lock.

People sharing or renting houses are no different to owner occupiers, it's not a significant expense to get a charger put in, about the same as any other appliance.

ELM327 · 07-11-2019 09:51AM

Black_Knight wrote: »

OMG we get it, you bought a Tesla! Stop harping on about it

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

You'll surely forgive my indulgences on day 1 of ownership to be fair

Lumen wrote: »

All new apartment/house developments seem to have allocated parking so there's no reason in principle why they can't have on street chargers with an RFID or smartphone lock.

People sharing or renting houses are no different to owner occupiers, it's not a significant expense to get a charger put in, about the same as any other appliance.

Yes it is an excuse offered but I installed my charger in my allocated space. I own the apartment and the space comes with it. When we rented we used a granny cable, but that was because we were leaving soon. If you want to install a charger at a rented house you need the LL consent. But you can take the unit with you when you leave.

Mickeroo · 07-11-2019 09:57AM

ELM327 wrote: »

You'll surely forgive my indulgences on day 1 of ownership to be fair

Considering how quickly you seem to get bored of cars that's an eternity already :pac:

I've a feeling you'll hold on to this one a bit longer than the last few though

McGiver · 07-11-2019 01:05PM

Lumen wrote: »

All new apartment/house developments seem to have allocated parking so there's no reason in principle why they can't have on street chargers with an RFID or smartphone lock.

People sharing or renting houses are no different to owner occupiers, it's not a significant expense to get a charger put in, about the same as any other appliance.

Ehm no. It's not anywhere as easy as buying a fridge and simply plugging it. You have to dig in the ground to install a pedestal on dedicated parking place for ffs. RFID 7kW charger is significantly more expensive than without RFID.

It has legal implications, you have to involve owner of the land and/or the property, then there may be health and safety issues, arguing with the management company (if the estate is managed) etc. In a rented house you can't do it without the permission of the landlord. And why would you install it in place you don't own? What will you do when you move? Etc etc.

McGiver · 07-11-2019 01:11PM

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes it is an excuse offered but I installed my charger in my allocated space. I own the apartment and the space comes with it. When we rented we used a granny cable, but that was because we were leaving soon. If you want to install a charger at a rented house you need the LL consent. But you can take the unit with you when you leave.

Just one example of yours doesn't mean it's common and easy. It's not, involves serious hassle.

How do you use granny from a 1st floor apartment? You can't.

How do you install 3pin/charger on a apt with no allocated parking space? You can't.

What's the cost of digging out the pedestal charger, transporting it and installing it at another place? Few grand my guess.

KCross · 07-11-2019 01:16PM

McGiver wrote: »

Just one example of yours doesn't mean it's common and easy. It's not, involves serious hassle.

How do you use granny from a 1st floor apartment? You can't.

How do you install 3pin/charger on a apt with no allocated parking space? You can't.

What's the cost of digging out the pedestal charger, transporting it and installing it at another place? Few grand my guess.

One solution is that the communal parking get a bank of chargers installed by a 3rd party provider who offer it as a service and you pay them for it, not via your meter.

Still hassle to get a suitable provider, get building management to agree and enough critical mass in the complex to make it viable.

My guess is that apartment dwellers will be the last to be solved.

Any new apartments should have it in from the get go though.

McGiver · 07-11-2019 01:22PM

KCross wrote: »

One solution is that the communal parking get a bank of chargers installed by a 3rd party provider who offer it as a service and you pay them for it, not via your meter.

Still hassle to get a suitable provider, get building management to agree and enough critical mass in the complex to make it viable.

My guess is that apartment dwellers will be the last to be solved.

Any new apartments should have it in from the get go though.

That's a good idea but it's hard to organise unless there are sufficient numbers in the area, but how do you know?

Legislation needed to enable streamlined solution for this in existing estates.
Think new estates have it mandated? If the legislation mandates 1 charger everywhere then it's wrong anyway... It is should factor in growth and allow for easy expansion and be based on estate size.

KCross · 07-11-2019 01:25PM

McGiver wrote: »

That's a good idea but it's hard to organise unless there are sufficient numbers in the area, but how do you know?

Legislation needed to enable streamlined solution for this in existing estates.
Think new estates have it mandated? If the legislation mandates 1 charger everywhere then it's wrong anyway... It is should factor in growth and allow for easy expansion and be based on estate size.

The new regulations (not sure if they are in law yet or not) is that any new buildings will at least have ducting in place, which is the main problem with retrofitting charge points as you have to dig up tarmac and footpaths etc. That really increases cost and disruption.

creedp · 07-11-2019 03:20PM

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

ESB finally got back to me, my account is enabled now.

I signed up this morning and am still waiting on my activation email. Is this delay normal?

I tried to re-register just now and it won't let me use the same email address but neither will it allow me access by initial registration. Caught between a rock and a hard place if I done get that email!

Gumbo · 07-11-2019 03:27PM

McGiver wrote: »

Ehm no. It's not anywhere as easy as buying a fridge and simply plugging it. You have to dig in the ground to install a pedestal on dedicated parking place for ffs. RFID 7kW charger is significantly more expensive than without RFID.

It has legal implications, you have to involve owner of the land and/or the property, then there may be health and safety issues, arguing with the management company (if the estate is managed) etc. In a rented house you can't do it without the permission of the landlord. And why would you install it in place you don't own? What will you do when you move? Etc etc.

While its not as easy as a typical house, its also not as complicated as you make out. Ive seen them fixed to concrete colums with the cable ran vertically up and across the soffit of the basement roof (protected in metal trunking) and then into the CU of the apartment or meter box in the basement of that apartment. You can get chargers with keys on them and they don't have to be 7kw chargers, 3.6kw chargers are fine.

Tenants can remove the chargers when moving and replace with an external socket. This removes the exposed wiring. One example. Assuming the charger wasn't got on a grant as that's linked to the MPRN so the LL or any future owner cannot avail of the grant in the future.

McGiver wrote: »

Just one example of yours doesn't mean it's common and easy. It's not, involves serious hassle.

How do you use granny from a 1st floor apartment? You can't.

How do you install 3pin/charger on a apt with no allocated parking space? You can't.

What's the cost of digging out the pedestal charger, transporting it and installing it at another place? Few grand my guess.

KCross wrote: »

One solution is that the communal parking get a bank of chargers installed by a 3rd party provider who offer it as a service and you pay them for it, not via your meter.

Still hassle to get a suitable provider, get building management to agree and enough critical mass in the complex to make it viable.

My guess is that apartment dwellers will be the last to be solved.

Any new apartments should have it in from the get go though.

many apartment development sin the city are now running the cable required for charging to a common space in the basement car park or car parking area.

This is being done in conjunction with developers and the ESB. While there's no current planning requirement (It should be soon), the ESB have a standard that the developer runs the cable provisions in.

At some later stage then, the management company arrange for a third party supplier to install and maintain. Obviously there has to be some need so the more owners that request it, the better.

The third party provide the access to residents and they are billed either through a membership and card registration or similar.

On other big sites, The Swiss Cottage for example in Santry, they have 112 Apartments under construction currently. They only have 25 basement car spaces and hundreds of bicycle parking slots. They are moving away from car parking provisions. But, they do have 4 spaces for group sharing (GoCar or Similar) provided for on site.

I didn't check if EV charging was being put in, but ill check the next time im on site.

Royale with Cheese · 07-11-2019 03:43PM

creedp wrote: »

I signed up this morning and am still waiting on my activation email. Is this delay normal?

I tried to re-register just now and it won't let me use the same email address but neither will it allow me access by initial registration. Caught between a rock and a hard place if I done get that email!

Was it a Hotmail address? Mine was, I've had problems before using it to sign up to things. Some mail servers just can't handle them for some reason.

You'll have to mail them and tell them your activation mail never arrived and you need to have the account enabled, took a few days for them to get back to me but they did it eventually.

creedp · 07-11-2019 03:53PM

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

Was it a Hotmail address? Mine was, I've had problems before using it to sign up to things. Some mail servers just can't handle them for some reason.

You'll have to mail them and tell them your activation mail never arrived and you need to have the account enabled, took a few days for them to get back to me but they did it eventually.

Yes it was but as I already get regular ecar updates to that email address without issue it difficult to understand [for an IT luddite like me!!] why its a problem in this case.

Pity that you can't go back and revise your details. Thanks for info

babybuilder · 10-11-2019 11:16AM

Anyone any info on the eCard app? I stupidly downloaded the latest app and it's rubbish.

daheff · 11-11-2019 10:24PM

I was just about to sign up to the prepaid account for ECars.

One thing I couldn't figure out was if the initial 20EUR deposit would gradually drip down over time (like other 'prepaid' service models)?

more reluctant to sign up until I actually might need to service if thats the case.

Otherwise I'd sign up now to have the card as a just in case.

Efitz2019 · 11-11-2019 11:29PM

daheff wrote: »

I was just about to sign up to the prepaid account for ECars.

One thing I couldn't figure out was if the initial 20EUR deposit would gradually drip down over time (like other 'prepaid' service models)?

more reluctant to sign up until I actually might need to service if thats the case.

Otherwise I'd sign up now to have the card as a just in case.

I signed up for the monthly subscription one I was told by ecars I can move to a prepaid account after the 12 months is up as I wouldn't use the network enough to justify the monthly subscription.

celtic_oz · 14-11-2019 03:43PM

sorry if this has been answered before

I know ecars will start charging for FAST public charging network in Ireland (43kW-50kW) from Monday 18th of November.

I have the card allowing me to public charge

Do I have to do anything if I want to continue to SLOW charge ?

Don't want to find out I have to activate something Monday morning even though it continues to be free.

D Dastardly · 14-11-2019 03:57PM

I have a related question... where is the new ecars app to allow PAYG charging, 4 days to go and still no app?

Mupchease · 14-11-2019 04:03PM

D Dastardly wrote: »

I have a related question... where is the new ecars app to allow PAYG charging, 4 days to go and still no app?

It’s coming soon so I’d be fairly confident it will be out before November 18th 2022

D Dastardly · 14-11-2019 04:26PM

At least they are making the transition as straightforward and painless as possible ;-D

innrain · 14-11-2019 05:03PM

celtic_oz wrote: »

sorry if this has been answered before

I know ecars will start charging for FAST public charging network in Ireland (43kW-50kW) from Monday 18th of November.

I have the card allowing me to public charge

Do I have to do anything if I want to continue to SLOW charge ?

Don't want to find out I have to activate something Monday morning even though it continues to be free.

Today they've sent another reminder. it says
" For those who haven’t signed up, please do so via www.esb.ie/ecars. From Monday 18th November you will only be able to use the fast chargers if you have signed up.
"

I believe you're safe for the SCP. But I would sign up on the new system anyway. It does not cost you anything for the first 12 month. What if you need to use a FCP once during this time?

DrPhilG · 14-11-2019 08:02PM

Mupchease wrote: »

It’s coming soon so I’d be fairly confident it will be out before November 18th 2022

It's ESB eCars so I'd be fairly confident that it won't.

celtic_oz · 14-11-2019 09:19PM

innrain wrote: »

I believe you're safe for the SCP. But I would sign up on the new system anyway. It does not cost you anything for the first 12 month. What if you need to use a FCP once during this time?

My car wont take FCP.

I cant believe this is not known for definite.. if the slow ones will continue to work if you dont sign up

ESB eCars pricing introduction

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