Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

odyssey06 · 15-09-2019 09:16AM

JCX BXC wrote: »

Um no.
It's called harm reduction, people are going to take drugs no matter what the HSE say, so should they do it with no education or should some effort be made to help prevent overdoses?
Infact, I believe festivals should have drug testing tents like in other countries.
How this can be seen as advocating is beyond me!

People are going to drink no matter what.
So whats the point of MUP except to benefit pubs?
The HSE dont have a clue about this.

JCX BXC · 15-09-2019 09:18AM

odyssey06 wrote: »

People are going to drink no matter what.
So whats the point of MUP except to benefit pubs?
The HSE dont have a clue about this.

I agree fully with you.

I didn't agree with a comment above saying the HSE are advocating illegal drugs.

JohnnyFlash · 15-09-2019 09:31AM

MUP has been proven to reduce overall consumption.

Reducing consumption leads to better health.

Better health leads to finite resources in the health service being put to better use.

Really basic stuff.

JCX BXC · 15-09-2019 09:35AM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

MUP has been proven to reduce overall consumption.

Reducing consumption leads to better health.

Better health leads to finite resources in the health service being put to better use.

Really basic stuff.

Because it was such a massive success in Scotland?

We have to ask ourselves, when do nanny-state antics go too far? How can we continue imposing restrictions on citizens which have just escaped the grasp of the church?

Pauliedragon · 15-09-2019 09:54AM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

MUP has been proven to reduce overall consumption.

Reducing consumption leads to better health.

Better health leads to finite resources in the health service being put to better use.

Really basic stuff.

Why not do it properly so. I'll give you some examples.
My local is open right now. Illegal. Most people in there can't stand up cause they're still out from last night.
The other pub across the way would have been open until about 4am. Illegal.
Pubs selling nagins to teenagers underage every weekend. Illegal.
Serving people until they are about to fall over every day of the week. Illegal. Most people in this country don't understand that's it's against the law to serve alcohol to somebody who is drunk. It's a €1500 fine.
This is one town in one city in Ireland. Not some backward small village a town of 20000 people.
If Simon Harris is serious about alcohol issues why doesn't he tap the police minister on the shoulder and say get your guys to tidy up these pubs they're breaking liquor laws left right and centre. Or say to Leo mate the HSE is swamped with drunken fools every weekend we need the cops to step up and control things. A publican in Tip got fined €50 for serving at 3am. Is that really a deterrent? He's made 10 times that staying open.

odyssey06 · 15-09-2019 10:05AM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

MUP has been proven to reduce overall consumption.
Reducing consumption leads to better health.
Better health leads to finite resources in the health service being put to better use.
Really basic stuff.

No it hasnt. None of this has been proven.
Sales in Scotland or BC changing proves nothing about actual consumption in those regions.
I am about to fill my boot in Newry. What stats will that show up in.

Finite resources of the HSE would be better served by people dying quicker and earlier, if you want to be brutal about it.

odyssey06 · 15-09-2019 10:08AM

JCX BXC wrote: »

I agree fully with you.

I didn't agree with a comment above saying the HSE are advocating illegal drugs.

Strange though. I cant recall HSE promoting measures to make the measures in place v illegal drugs more effective. Do you? Thats not a rhetorical question.

JCX BXC · 15-09-2019 10:09AM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Strange though. I cant recall HSE promoting measures to make the measures in place v illegal drugs more effective. Do you? Thats not a rhetorical question.

They're not making it more effective by telling people to take small amounts? How are they?

odyssey06 · 15-09-2019 10:09AM

Pauliedragon wrote: »

If Simon Harris is serious about alcohol issues why doesn't he tap the police minister on the shoulder and say get your guys to tidy up these pubs they're breaking liquor laws left right and centre. Or say to Leo mate the HSE is swamped with drunken fools every weekend we need the cops to step up and control things. A publican in Tip got fined €50 for serving at 3am. Is that really a deterrent? He's made 10 times that staying open.

Yeah maybe JohnnyFlash can bring it up at the next FG love in over a free bar.

Atlantic Dawn · 15-09-2019 10:09AM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

MUP has been proven to reduce overall consumption.

Reducing consumption leads to better health.

Better health leads to finite resources in the health service being put to better use.

Really basic stuff.

We should increase the duty on petrol and diesel so it's €5 a litre to reduce car useage and vehicle related deaths.

odyssey06 · 15-09-2019 10:10AM

JCX BXC wrote: »

They're not making it more effective by telling people to take small amounts? How are they?

That is harm reduction. I am talking about measures to reduce availability.

Odyssey 2005 · 15-09-2019 10:32AM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Yeah maybe JohnnyFlash can bring it up at the next FG love in over a free bar.

He won't be able he will be still as high as a kite.

JohnnyFlash · 15-09-2019 11:07AM

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

He won't be able he will be still as high as a kite.

Living rent free inside your head, mate.

rn · 15-09-2019 11:14AM

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

We should increase the duty on petrol and diesel so it's €5 a litre to reduce car useage and vehicle related deaths.

If we were serious about emissions, we should do that. However paper straws are more in keeping with our lifestyles.

MUP should be brought in to increase the price of lowest, worst quality booze. That will impact high users, as they buy the cheapest.

The Late Late Show · 15-09-2019 12:37PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

MUP has been proven to reduce overall consumption.

Reducing consumption leads to better health.

Better health leads to finite resources in the health service being put to better use.

Really basic stuff.

How come regular drinkers of alcohol live to old age and people who never drank died in their 20s or 30s. Alcohol clearly is not the big threat to health the health fascists claim. Same goes for sugar, salt, tea, coffee, meat, tinned tomatoes, oranges, 'E additives', white bread, dairy produce, etc. that the health fanatics also target. A lot bullsh!t all of it. Believe them and everything is bad for you. They cannot come up with a cure for cancer which is around for years. That is the DISGRACE. They are also CLUELESS to the cause of it.

So, no, reducing alcohol consumption does NOT guarantee better health. What is NEVER said is the way financial worries, mortgages, insurance hikes and other such pressures impact on health. The health minister who can admit this will be good. It is time for him or her to come forward and challenge the grip insurance companies and financial institutions have over the world.

weldoninhio · 15-09-2019 12:56PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

MUP has been proven to reduce overall consumption.

Reducing consumption leads to better health.

Better health leads to finite resources in the health service being put to better use.

Really basic stuff.

Proven where??

faceman · 15-09-2019 04:22PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

MUP has been proven to reduce overall consumption.

Reducing consumption leads to better health.

Better health leads to finite resources in the health service being put to better use.

Really basic stuff.

In Scotland the results are mixed depending on what source you use. Some sources show a reduction, others show an increase. Research in to the effects of MUP or taxation of alcohol does lean toward reduced consumption but there are limited studies, perhaps none at all, that research the impact at household level.

More importantly, studies in to mortality rates and MUP are broadly mixed. Most studies look at consumer price index impacts rather than individual studies which is definitely not ideal.

One thing that most studies that reference is agree is that heavy drinkers are price inelastic.

KrustyUCC · 17-09-2019 09:33AM

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/revealed-significant-price-differences-for-alcohol-cigarettes-and-fuel-between-dublin-and-newry-38503207.html

Revealed: Significant price differences for alcohol, cigarettes and fuel between Dublin and Newry

Also it's a real myth that we have cheap alcohol in this country

"Eurostat, found that the level of Irish food and alcohol prices was among the highest in the world.
The CSO’s latest inflation figures suggest that alcohol prices have risen well ahead of the overall Consumer Price Index, which shows overall annual price rises of only 0.5%."

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/irish-food-and-alcohol-prices-among-the-highest-in-the-world-new-research-945679.html

"The lowest price levels were registered in Bulgaria and Romania (both 74 per cent of the EU average) and Hungary (77 per cent), and the highest in Finland (182 per cent), Ireland (177 per cent) and Sweden (152 per cent)."

177% of the EU average is cheap

Not that it will make a difference to Harris and Co

Hotblack Desiato · 17-09-2019 10:07AM

"Revealed - something everyone's already known for years"

The Indo really is a rag.

odyssey06 · 17-09-2019 12:58PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

"Revealed - something everyone's already known for years"
The Indo really is a rag.

Not to the received opinion in Official Ireland though... which might be whom the Indo are addressing.

Paddy Cow · 17-09-2019 05:04PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

MUP has been proven to reduce overall consumption.

Reducing consumption leads to better health.

Better health leads to finite resources in the health service being put to better use.

Really basic stuff.

You'd want to be awful naive to believe that this is about health and not just another stealth tax cash grab.

The Late Late Show · 04-11-2019 12:28PM

This madness about alcohol advertising is coming into effect this week despite Commander Harris never asking the people if they wanted this cr@p. Harris is like a creep from the regime in The Handmaid's Tale trying to turn Ireland into a neo-religious far right society. Of course he will point out to thugs who ruin Halloween for everyone as reasoning behind his anti-alcohol agenda. He will also use the opinions of a doctor who is a member of a cult called the Pioneers of the Sacred Heart or something sounding Gileadean like that.

Will this anti-alcohol agenda stop thugs congregating in our city centres and bullying people, robbing people and slashing people's tyres? No. Will this legislation kill festivals and harm jobs? Yes. Will it save the pubs as some backers of it claim? No. Tougher laws to deal with street nuisances like the recent Halloween carry on is needed. Target these not everyone. We then have The Young Offenders served up as a comedy glamourising little brats who we all have to suffer over with Harris' plans. Used to enjoy The Young Offenders but not when Harris wants to harras us with far right drivel.

Leroy42 · 04-11-2019 01:25PM

What effect will the changes in advertising have on peoples ability to drink?

wonga77 · 04-11-2019 05:50PM

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

Leroy42 wrote: »

What effect will the changes in advertising have on peoples ability to drink?

None. A bit like the bonkers decision to put all cigarette boxes the same colour. It will have zero effect but someone somewhere will get a clap on the back and be thanked for saving the next generation :rolleyes:

Leroy42 · 04-11-2019 07:14PM

It's an awfully bitter rant for something that will have no discernible effect on anyone but maybe the advertisement industry!

The Rape of Lucretia · 04-11-2019 07:32PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

What effect will the changes in advertising have on peoples ability to drink?

Quite a lot it is hoped.
The numbers of under fours drinking alcohol outside creches waiting for their parents to collect them is enourmousthese days. Damaging to the infants, and a menace to residents living in the area. Preventing drinks adverts within 200 yards of them can only reduce the glamourising of alcohol to the toddlers.

Reputable Rog · 04-11-2019 08:26PM

The Late Late Show wrote: »

This madness about alcohol advertising is coming into effect this week despite Commander Harris never asking the people if they wanted this cr@p. Harris is like a creep from the regime in The Handmaid's Tale trying to turn Ireland into a neo-religious far right society. Of course he will point out to thugs who ruin Halloween for everyone as reasoning behind his anti-alcohol agenda. He will also use the opinions of a doctor who is a member of a cult called the Pioneers of the Sacred Heart or something sounding Gileadean like that.

Will this anti-alcohol agenda stop thugs congregating in our city centres and bullying people, robbing people and slashing people's tyres? No. Will this legislation kill festivals and harm jobs? Yes. Will it save the pubs as some backers of it claim? No. Tougher laws to deal with street nuisances like the recent Halloween carry on is needed. Target these not everyone. We then have The Young Offenders served up as a comedy glamourising little brats who we all have to suffer over with Harris' plans. Used to enjoy The Young Offenders but not when Harris wants to harras us with far right drivel.

What happens if a new school opens within 200 metres of an established alcohol hoarding? I remember in Limerick there was a massive Murphys illuminated sign on the Ballysimon Road, would that sign have to come down if a new school opened within 200 metres?

odyssey06 · 04-11-2019 08:31PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

It's an awfully bitter rant for something that will have no discernible effect on anyone but maybe the advertisement industry!

Great use of the governments limited legislative time then. No discernible effect and an obsession with image over substance kinda sums up the present FG.

DeconSheridan · 04-11-2019 08:38PM

Shops can still have 50% off offers. Or two for one. This move solves nothing as usual.

brick tamland · 04-11-2019 08:42PM

One decent outcome from all this Brexit uncertainty ****e is that this minimum charging wont be coming in anytime soon.

Wont be coming in until same stipid deal us in place up north and that is further away than ever with no end in site.

Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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