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GN Toilets

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,731 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    There is no proof because there is no such thing as 'psychological gender'.

    Perhaps you can tell us what you mean by the term.

    The non-physical differences. To argue that psychological gender does not exist, is to argue that ideas such as men are better at tasks involving logical and lateral thinking whereas women are better at tasks involving empathy are myths.

    Gender is based on hormonal activity and it effects the mind as well as the body. Perhaps I'm wrong, but you appear to be arguing that hormones ONLY effect the body - would that be correct?

    To put is another way: I'm arguing gender dysphoria; which exists according to the American Psychiatric Association, the NCBI, the NHS (links below)- is not purely a physical disorder; whereas you appear to be arguing gender nonconfmity.

    https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK532313/

    https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The non-physical differences. To argue that psychological gender does not exist, is to argue that ideas such as men are better at tasks involving logical and lateral thinking whereas women are better at tasks involving empathy are myths.

    Not necessarily myths. There may be some truth in them. But so what?

    There is after all some truth that men are on average taller than women. Doesn't mean a woman who is 6 foot 2 is a man though does it?

    Anyway correct me if I am wrong but it seems like you are defining 'psychological gender' as something to do with having a 'man's brain' or a 'woman's brain'? Is that right?

    Can you tell me how you can tell if you have a 'woman's brain', and what the test is for it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,531 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    The non-physical differences. To argue that psychological gender does not exist, is to argue that ideas such as men are better at tasks involving logical and lateral thinking whereas women are better at tasks involving empathy are myths.

    Men and women are different, there are some things women are better at, there are some things men are better at. Stop pretending we're all the same, we're not. Your ideas are so "progressive" they're actually regressive.

    If we're not different why would someone feel like they were born the wrong gender, ya know cos we're all the same?

    Eh?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,731 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Not necessarily myths. There may be some truth in them. But so what?

    Then you accept psyhological gender exists, because that's what it is.
    There is after all some truth that men are on average taller than women. Doesn't mean a woman who is 6 foot 2 is a man though does it?

    Anyway correct me if I am wrong but it seems like you are defining 'psychological gender' as something to do with having a 'man's brain' or a 'woman's brain'? Is that right?
    No, psychological aspects of it. Psychological does not mean that something is or is not...!!
    Can you tell me how you can tell if you have a 'woman's brain', and what the test is for it?
    No, because I never claimed it.

    EDIT - there;s a list of them here (if that's what you're asking for) but again - I'm not offering any opinions on them or claiming anything as to their effectiveness or lack thereof

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_psychological_tests_by_gender_difference

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,361 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    And that's all I'll say about that to avoid getting drawn in to rambling multi quote replies!


    I’ll be brief then - you’re talking complete nonsense.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So when you ask for evidence that:

    "If it's fact, then can you point me to the research that proves that physical and psychological gender are a) connected, and b) aligned correctly at birth in 100% of cases?"

    What you mean by 'psychological gender' is a set of tendencies for men and women to sometimes be good at or interested in certain things?

    And you think that when those interests and talents don't match their biological sex this proves what exactly?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,731 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    So when you ask for evidence that:

    "If it's fact, then can you point me to the research that proves that physical and psychological gender are a) connected, and b) aligned correctly at birth in 100% of cases?"

    What you mean by 'psychological gender' is a set of tendencies for men and women to sometimes be good at or interested in certain things?

    And you think that when those interests and talents don't match their biological sex this proves what exactly?

    I've been very clear what I mean and don't mean. I've stated it in a previous post.

    I'm beginning to think you don't know what the word "psychological" means - because it's nothing to do with talents or interests, and I'm not sure how you could confuse them with psychology.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I've been very clear what I mean and don't mean. I've stated it in a previous post.

    I'm beginning to think you don't know what the word "psychological" means - because it's nothing to do with talents or interests, and I'm not sure how you could confuse them with psychology.

    psychological mean relating to the mind.

    Are you saying talents and interests don't relate to the mind?

    Jesus your own wikipedia list of tests is designed to measure attitudes, interests and talents. How else does the mind express itself?

    But you have been quite clear, yes.

    You think there is a lady brain and a manly brain, and that a biological male must have a lady brain 'by accident' if he likes pink, dresses and make up and isn't very good at reading maps.

    That is precisely what you are saying isn't it, when you strip away the obfuscation and fancy language.

    Just out of interest does a white person have an oriental brain if they like sushi and sumo, or is it just women who get to be defined like this?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,731 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    psychological mean relating to the mind.

    Are you saying talents and interests don't relate to the mind?

    Could be one of many factors. Genetic, hard work, enviroment.

    I'm arguing psychology is the study as to why someone might have a talent (or aptitude, or chacteristic); you are saying it's the talent itself and not the person. Talents don't have minds.
    Jesus your own wikipedia list of tests is designed to measure attitudes, interests and talents. How else does the mind express itself?
    Read what I said about not offering opinion on said list.
    But you have been quite clear, yes.

    You think there is a lady brain and a manly brain, and that a biological male must have a lady brain 'by accident' if he likes pink, dresses and make up and isn't very good at reading maps.

    So you haven't been reading my posts at all, and have presented a strawman argument to hide the fact.

    That, or you can quote a post where I said exactly that, using the word "man brain" or "woman brain".
    That is precisely what you are saying isn't it, when you strip away the obfuscation and fancy language.
    No, that's what YOU'RE saying.
    Just out of interest does a white person have an oriental brain if they like sushi and sumo, or is it just women who get to be defined like this?


    That's generalisation, not psychology.

    IN concliusion:
    Psychology - study of how things relate to the mind
    Gender psychology - study of how gender relates to the mind

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,401 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    I’ll be brief then - you’re talking complete nonsense.

    Really?

    https://www.womeninprison.org.uk/research/key-facts.php

    Most women are imprisoned for non violent offences - fact
    Women serve prison sentences for minor offences; 82% of women’s prison sentences in 2018 were for non-violent offences

    Most women in prison have experienced physical or sexual abuse - fact
    Over 60% of women in contact with the criminal justice system have experienced domestic abuse.
    53% of women in prison report having experienced emotional, physical or sexual abuse during childhood

    Male prisons are more violent - fact


    There was a record high of 29,500 assault incidents in 2017, a 13% increase from 2016 and
    a 93% increase since 2007. Male establishments accounted for 96% of all assault incidents,
    higher than the 95% prison population proportion that males represented, on average, in
    2017134. There was a 20% reduction of female assault incidents and 98% increase of male
    assault incidents since 2007.

    Which part is nonsense?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    I get that the focus of your argument is solely on women’s safety, but where I’m coming from is the idea of introducing measures that make prisons safer for everyone, regardless of their gender. That way the idea is to protect people, regardless of their gender, from becoming victims of physical and sexual abuse by sexual predators, regardless of the gender of the perpetrator.

    That way, everyones safety is increased as opposed to just measures which focus on prioritising anyone by virtue of their gender. Women in prison and men in prison are subjected to physical and sexual assaults and abuse daily, primarily caused by other inmates of the same sex as themselves, and there are a minority of prison officers who physically and sexually abuse prisoners. It’s not the gender of the perpetrator or the victim that’s the issue, it’s the fact that putting sexual predators and prisoners who are known to be violent among the prison population is like putting a fox in a chicken coop. What do they think is likely to happen? That’s why the procedures around supervision and monitoring prisoners and keeping prisoners safe from those people who would physically and sexually abuse and assault them is a far better strategy than just separating prisoners by sex.

    It’s not the fact that they place prisoners who are transgender among either the female or male prison population that increases the risk to other prisoners, it’s the fact that there are people who are sexual predators who take advantage of the way the system is set up, to physically and sexually abuse other people.

    No I agree with you to extent. What I am asking is why increase the risk?

    When a self-id "women" enters prison they are monitored more, due to the fact that they are really a man and thus have a penis and are physically stronger. It may not be possible with current resources to non-stop have a guard beside a self-id women in a prison. And by doing this more man-power is used up for this one person on average then the rest of the prison population. And it's done needlessly.

    We have to deal with the way things are, not how we'd like them to be re resources, monitoring etc.

    So I ask again, why increase the risk to the female prison population?

    From the link posted by another poster:
    It is understood that the prisoner was assigned a high level of monitoring after being convicted of ten counts of sexual assault and one count of cruelty against a child.

    The prisoner is accompanied by two officers at all times while in the common areas of the detention facility.

    “The Irish Prison Service must accept all prisoners into custody, into whatever prison that a judge orders,” Minister Charlie Flanagan said in response to a parliamentary question from Aontú TD Peadar Tóibín, on 12 September.

    Robert Purcell is chair of the Law Society Criminal Law Committee: “The law that was enacted in 2015 did not envisage this situation, and it puts the Prison Service and the courts in a difficult position because, obviously, if somebody is self-declaring that they have to be recognised, then they have to be dealt with on that basis, even though physically, they have not have made the [physical] transformation.

    And all because of silly self-id laws.

    https://www.lawsociety.ie/gazette/top-stories/male-bodied-transgender-inmate-housed-with-women-prisoners/


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So you haven't been reading my posts at all, and have presented a strawman argument to hide the fact.

    That, or you can quote a post where I said exactly that, using the word "man brain" or "woman brain".

    OK so you don't think there's a male brain or a female brain.

    My apologies, I have completely misread you.

    I thought you were one of these loons who think that you can have the 'wrong' brain in your body.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,576 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Why is anyone the slightest bit worried about bad people in prison. I'd say the old don't drop the soap line was enough to convince a lot of men to avoid a life of crime, is it any harm women now have the same fear. It's all a deterrent.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    The toilets-issue at this stage is a bit of a distraction.

    The question is: should women have safe spaces where men can't go; and how do you stop men pretending to be transwomen to get into them?

    Because sticking your head in the sand and pretending transwomen don't exist; or that they are all a pack of liars, is at best, confirmation bias; and at worst, downright ignorant.

    There all ready is a safe space where women can go , it's called the woman's toilet . And that's the way it should be . I wouldn't fancy my girlfriend or daughter going into a toilet in a bar that's full of pissed fellas . I don't really care if there's a gender neutral toilet as long as theirs men's and women's aswell. A very small minority of people are doing their best to make life as awkward for every one else. A lot of it's just a small group of vocal attention seekers who can't decided what day to be male or female or neither .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,731 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    OK so you don't think there's a male brain or a female brain.

    My apologies, I have completely misread you.

    I thought you were one of these loons who think that you can have the 'wrong' brain in your body.

    Fair enough, but I did say "psychological" meaning mind fairly often.

    It's neither "right" nor "wrong". My point being that gender psychology - psychological traits more associated with one gender more than the other - is a real thing and gender dysphoria is when it contradicts the physical gender.

    To say that one doesn't exist or that they are automatically correctly aligned in every person as invisibleman claimed is somewhere between ignorant and confirmation bias.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,401 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Fair enough, but I did say "psychological" meaning mind fairly often.

    It's neither "right" nor "wrong". My point being that gender psychology - psychological traits more associated with one gender more than the other - is a real thing and gender dysphoria is when it contradicts the physical gender.

    To say that one doesn't exist or that they are automatically correctly aligned in every person as invisibleman claimed is somewhere between ignorant and confirmation bias.

    Probably better to do away with rigidly enforced gender stereotypes then. The we'd have fewer kids being told that their bodies dont "match" their brain so therefore must start on a pathway of a lifetime of medicalization.

    I mean really, most people arent completely "correctly aligned " whatever that means. It's not like is one set way to be a man or a woman


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,129 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    No I agree with you to extent. What I am asking is why increase the risk?

    When a self-id "women" enters prison they are monitored more, due to the fact that they are really a man and thus have a penis and are physically stronger. It may not be possible with current resources to non-stop have a guard beside a self-id women in a prison. And by doing this more man-power is used up for this one person on average then the rest of the prison population. And it's done needlessly.

    We have to deal with the way things are, not how we'd like them to be re resources, monitoring etc.

    So I ask again, why increase the risk to the female prison population?

    From the link posted by another poster:



    And all because of silly self-id laws.

    https://www.lawsociety.ie/gazette/top-stories/male-bodied-transgender-inmate-housed-with-women-prisoners/

    What?

    Who said all self id trans women dont have gender confirming surgery. Thats news to me.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    My point being that gender psychology - psychological traits more associated with one gender more than the other - is a real thing and gender dysphoria is when it contradicts the physical gender.

    Sorry, you are doing it again.

    So if someone has 'psychological traits more associated with one gender' and that contradicts their biological sex, then they have gender dysphoria?

    Please name one of these psychological traits.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What?

    Who said all self id trans women dont have gender confirming surgery. Thats news to me.

    Nice obfuscation.

    I suppose when you are going into bat for rapists in a women's prison then attempting to deflect is the only course of action.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    What?

    Who said all self id trans women dont have gender confirming surgery. Thats news to me.

    Nobody. I said self-id and put women in inverted commas, the insinuation being that they are men, with a penis. I never used the word trans. That was just you.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,401 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    What?

    Who said all self id trans women dont have gender confirming surgery. Thats news to me.

    Does it not raise any questions with you when it has emerged that an estimated 1 in 50 male prisoners in the UK are now identifying as trans? Like does that not pierce your bubble at all and make you think that maybe the self id system is being abused?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'd be interested to know whether Joeytheparrot agrees with putting rapists into women's prisons, and how many sexual assaults he thinks would be OK as a result.

    It seems to me one side of this debate always work desperately hard not to answer simple questions like this. Yes or no would do, but we won't get a straight answer, you can be absolutely sure of that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,731 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    Probably better to do away with rigidly enforced gender stereotypes then. The we'd have fewer kids being told that their bodies dont "match" their brain so therefore must start on a pathway of a lifetime of medicalization.

    I mean really, most people arent completely "correctly aligned " whatever that means. It's not like is one set way to be a man or a woman


    Why does everyone seen to misread my posts today..

    I just told one poster I never used the word brain - and then you show up...??

    Also, id argue doing away with all 'rigidly-enforced stereotypes' on the basis they serve no purpose.

    Kids don't have problems understanding any of this by the way, it's adults who have problems

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,129 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Nice obfuscation.

    I suppose when you are going into bat for rapists in a women's prison then attempting to deflect is the only course of action.

    I am not at all going to bat for rapists but yeah obfuscate away yourself.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    I'd be interested to know whether Joeytheparrot agrees with putting rapists into women's prisons, and how many sexual assaults he thinks would be OK as a result.

    As many as it takes just once people are "inclusive". That's the only important factor.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    I am not at all going to bat for rapists but yeah obfuscate away yourself.

    You are when you seemingly have no problem with them entering women's prison based on them simply saying they are female.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,731 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Sorry, you are doing it again.

    So if someone has 'psychological traits more associated with one gender' and that contradicts their biological sex, then they have gender dysphoria?
    Nope, not the correct definition

    Please name one of these psychological traits.

    Irrelevant.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭victor8600


    There all ready is a safe space where women can go , it's called the woman's toilet . And that's the way it should be . I wouldn't fancy my girlfriend or daughter going into a toilet in a bar that's full of pissed fellas . I don't really care if there's a gender neutral toilet as long as theirs men's and women's aswell. A very small minority of people are doing their best to make life as awkward for every one else. A lot of it's just a small group of vocal attention seekers who can't decided what day to be male or female or neither .

    The small minority who make life awkward are those who would force a woman to use a toilet as a safe space. And no, this is NOT the way it should be.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,361 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    Really?

    ...

    Which part is nonsense?


    Yes really.

    Which part is nonsense? Well the fact that none of what you said addresses what I actually said, and I didn’t have to multiquote to point that out either.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,361 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    We have to deal with the way things are, not how we'd like them to be re resources, monitoring etc.

    So I ask again, why increase the risk to the female prison population?


    We do have to deal with the way things are, and we’re dealing with the way things are. We’re not increasing the risk to the female population solely by virtue of housing inmates who are transgender in either men’s or women’s prisons, the increased risk comes from the fact that some inmates, regardless of their gender, are sexual predators. See for example the recent case of the female teacher who was found guilty of defilement of a 16 year old boy -

    Female teacher who had sexual relationship with student, 16, tells court she is truly sorry


    If I actually wanted to really drive home the point, I too can google for incidents in other jurisdictions of female sexual predators, but to be honest I really don’t think that’s necessary, because it’s not the gender of the perpetrator is the point, it’s that the person is just a sexual predator.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    We do have to deal with the way things are, and we’re dealing with the way things are. We’re not increasing the risk to the female population solely by virtue of housing inmates who are transgender in either men’s or women’s prisons, the increased risk comes from the fact that some inmates, regardless of their gender, are sexual predators. See for example the recent case of the female teacher who was found guilty of defilement of a 16 year old boy -

    Female teacher who had sexual relationship with student, 16, tells court she is truly sorry


    If I actually wanted to really drive home the point, I too can google for incidents in other jurisdictions of female sexual predators, but to be honest I really don’t think that’s necessary, because it’s not the gender of the perpetrator is the point, it’s that the person is just a sexual predator.

    Yes, but men far more so. Regardless, there is nothing stopping a sexual predator self iding as a woman to be put in with women. This is the point. This has happened already as you know. This is the point. Someone else posted that 1 in 50 inmates are now "declaring", I'd imagine it's mostly men declaring as women. Do you honestly not see the problem if that number of male inmates had to be put in female prisons?

    A women has a far higher chance of fending of unwanted advances by another women, then she does a male.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,401 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    We do have to deal with the way things are, and we’re dealing with the way things are. We’re not increasing the risk to the female population solely by virtue of housing inmates who are transgender in either men’s or women’s prisons, the increased risk comes from the fact that some inmates, regardless of their gender, are sexual predators. See for example the recent case of the female teacher who was found guilty of defilement of a 16 year old boy -

    Female teacher who had sexual relationship with student, 16, tells court she is truly sorry


    If I actually wanted to really drive home the point, I too can google for incidents in other jurisdictions of female sexual predators, but to be honest I really don’t think that’s necessary, because it’s not the gender of the perpetrator is the point, it’s that the person is just a sexual predator.

    99% of sex offenders currently imprisoned in the UK are male. As of 2018, that's 13,580 men and 128 women (and no doubt some of those recorded as female actually arent). There is substantially less risk of a woman being sexually assaulted by a female sex offender in prison.

    As I mentioned earlier with 1 in 50 males in prison now identifying as female, and a large proportion of those being sex offenders, the risk is substantially increased if they are housed with women. Are you actually disputing this? Especially considering that the female estate just doesn't have the resources to correctly deal with such an increase in the number of dangerous prisoners.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,361 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    Yes, but men far more so. Regardless, there is nothing stopping a sexual predator self iding as a woman to be put in with women. This is the point. This has happened already as you know. This is the point. Someone else posted that 1 in 50 inmates are now "declaring", I'd imagine it's mostly men declaring as women. Do you honestly not see the problem if that number of male inmates had to be put in female prisons?

    A women has a far higher chance of fending of unwanted advances by another women, then she does a male.


    So house them with the Scissors Sisters, solves a multitude of problems - snip snip :pac:

    I’m only half joking, I have no sympathy whatsoever for sex offenders, regardless of their gender.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Nope, not the correct definition

    You just said exactly that:

    "My point being that gender psychology - psychological traits more associated with one gender more than the other - is a real thing and gender dysphoria is when it contradicts the physical gender"

    Gender psychology = psychological traits more associated with one gender more than the other (sic)
    Gender dysphoria = when gender psychology contradicts physical gender

    So what are these psychological traits more associated with one gender, the presence of which, when it contradicts 'physical gender', results in gender dysphoria?

    In your own time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    So house them with the Scissors Sisters, solves a multitude of problems - snip snip :pac:

    :pac::pac: I had to laugh at that!
    I’m only half joking, I have no sympathy whatsoever for sex offenders, regardless of their gender.

    Neither do I. Hence why I don't want some of them having the option of self-declaring to gain access to women, regardless if those women are sex offenders themselves!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    With people who support self identification but also deride JY, what is it about JY that makes you not respect their claim that they represent the trans movement?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭Gynoid


    I'd be interested to know whether Joeytheparrot agrees with putting rapists into women's prisons, and how many sexual assaults he thinks would be OK as a result.

    It seems to me one side of this debate always work desperately hard not to answer simple questions like this. Yes or no would do, but we won't get a straight answer, you can be absolutely sure of that.

    Collateral damage. There have already been rapes in prisons and refuges by trans identifying males. Abuse of children in dressing rooms. Assault in unisex showers. Upskirting. Voyeurism. Period shaming. Girls avoiding peeing or even school. Political support of TIMs who have been accused of sexual crimes. All already happening. In UK. It is just collateral damage to those pushing the agenda. Hundreds if not thousands of children on drastic life limiting experimental medication.. These are heartless idealogues fundamentally.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,401 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    Yes, but men far more so. Regardless, there is nothing stopping a sexual predator self iding as a woman to be put in with women. This is the point. This has happened already as you know. This is the point. Someone else posted that 1 in 50 inmates are now "declaring", I'd imagine it's mostly men declaring as women. Do you honestly not see the problem if that number of male inmates had to be put in female prisons?

    A women has a far higher chance of fending of unwanted advances by another women, then she does a male.

    Here is a link about the 1 in 50 stat, and yes thats the figure for males only

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/09/one-50-prisoners-identify-transsexual-first-figures-show-amid/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,731 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    You just said exactly that:

    "My point being that gender psychology - psychological traits more associated with one gender more than the other - is a real thing and gender dysphoria is when it contradicts the physical gender"

    Gender psychology = psychological traits more associated with one gender more than the other (sic)
    Gender dysphoria = when gender psychology contradicts physical gender

    So what are these psychological traits more associated with one gender, the presence of which, when it contradicts 'physical gender', results in gender dysphoria?

    In your own time.

    I'm not suggesting it's a case of take a quiz and tick X boxes and they tell you what gender you are. It's up to the individual to decide.

    This, again would be gender nonconformity. '7 put of 10 - I must be a woman then".

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    I am not at all going to bat for rapists but yeah obfuscate away yourself.

    Answer the question.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm not suggesting it's a case of take a quiz and tick X boxes and they tell you what gender you are. It's up to the individual to decide.

    This, again would be gender nonconformity. '7 put of 10 - I must be a woman then".


    Yeah at this stage I have literally no idea what you actually believe.

    Your last sentence implies you don't believe dysphoria is anything to do with having psychological traits more associated with the opposite sex.

    Now it's just 'up to the individual to decide' and the rest is in fact irrelevant.

    Have I got that right?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I see I've been given a warning so I'll give up on this thread.

    We couldn't possibly have a boards moderator having to answer an awkward question!


  • Registered Users Posts: 147 ✭✭SoupMonster


    I see I've been given a warning so I'll give up on this thread.

    We couldn't possibly have a boards moderator having to answer an awkward question!

    <snip>


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,361 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Ironicname wrote: »
    With people who support self identification but also deride JY, what is it about JY that makes you not respect their claim that they represent the trans movement?


    Because they don’t?

    Seems a pretty obvious answer to that question.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,731 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Yeah at this stage I have literally no idea what you actually believe.

    Your last sentence implies you don't believe dysphoria is anything to do with having psychological traits more associated with the opposite sex.

    Now it's just 'up to the individual to decide' and the rest is in fact irrelevant.

    Have I got that right?

    Nope. You're taking very minor points out of everything I write and misinterpreting them to feed your confirmation bias, as opposed to reading the overall post.

    The general rule of psychology (not specific to gender) is that traits contribute to psychology, psychology to diagnosis. Patient can agree or disagree with diagnosis as they want.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,351 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Answer the question.
    If you have a problem with a post or poster report it

    You do not get to tell other posters what to do though


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,361 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    Neither do I. Hence why I don't want some of them having the option of self-declaring to gain access to women, regardless if those women are sex offenders themselves!


    I don’t want sex offenders, regardless of their gender, having the opportunity to have access to sexually or physically assault or abuse anyone, regardless of their gender, age, etc. We can’t punish people, regardless of their gender, for crimes they haven’t committed. We can only punish people for the crimes they have committed, like this “vulnerable” sexual predator -


    Cork women pleads guilty to child porn charges: Video found depicting a boy under the age of two


  • Registered Users Posts: 613 ✭✭✭carolmon


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    Probably better to do away with rigidly enforced gender stereotypes then. The we'd have fewer kids being told that their bodies dont "match" their brain so therefore must start on a pathway of a lifetime of medicalization.

    I mean really, most people arent completely "correctly aligned " whatever that means. It's not like is one set way to be a man or a woman

    Exactly.... we seem to be going backwards re gender roles

    I have a 26 year old son and when he was young I rejected the notion of "boys toys" and "girls toys" and the whole social conditioning behind what men and women are/ should be.

    Now we're told if boys like girls toys they're or vice versa it's a sign ....feck that.

    It's regressive

    It's exactly what women of my generation fought against.... men/women should be x y or z

    If that thinking hadn't been challenged we'd all still be stuck in rigid gender roles and our access to equal participation in all levels of society would be lost.

    In 2019 I wish people would let kids play with what they want and let people do what makes them happy without having to undergo medical surgery to make it socially acceptable.

    Theres a reason Iran has such high gender reassignment stats and it's nothing to do with the innate freedom of the individual.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    I don’t want sex offenders, regardless of their gender, having the opportunity to have access to sexually or physically assault or abuse anyone, regardless of their gender, age, etc. We can’t punish people, regardless of their gender, for crimes they haven’t committed. We can only punish people for the crimes they have committed, like this “vulnerable” sexual predator -


    Cork women pleads guilty to child porn charges: Video found depicting a boy under the age of two

    We aren't punishing people for crimes they havn't commited. If you've transitioned... Women's prison. If you have not.... Male prison.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The prison issue and the toilet issue should be very straight forward.

    If you have a penis, you use the men's toilet/go to a men's prison. If you have a vagina, you use the women's toilet/go to a women's prison.

    If you have a penis and "feel" like you should be allowed to use a woman's toilet because you "feel" like a woman, tough ****.


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