Whingy Returning Emigrants

tdf7187 · 02-11-2019 10:55PM

June Cold Fighter wrote: »

It's not just the Daily Mail, either. Even the Irish Times, the supposed "paper of record," is riddled with errors.

Indeed. Some of it however is due to sub-editing as a job in the print industry basically being abolished with the need to cut costs. 20 years ago most of the errors wouldn't have made to print (or the modern equivalent, the net). Granted, some of the laxity is likely due to declining educational standards.

03-11-2019 12:00AM

It's rare for me to read a kindle book that doesn't have typos or spelling mistakes :mad:

dd973 · 03-11-2019 03:11AM

Always Tired wrote: »

The amount of people in Ireland who can't use been/being correctly still shocks me. Eg: saying, 'After been here 13 years' etc instead of being. Basically confusing it with as if you were saying 'Having been here 13 years.'

This is normal and natural, it's based on Irish language syntax which left it's traces on how we speak, same as 'yourself, himself, etc'

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 03-11-2019 12:20PM

dd973 wrote: »

This is normal and natural, it's based on Irish language syntax which left it's traces on how we speak, same as 'yourself, himself, etc'

The Irish language certainly exerts an influence on Hiberno-English, but there's also a pronounced tendency to ennoble bad grammar and misuse of words by crediting them to our Irish language heritage. Confusing "been" with its close homophone "being" doesn't derive from Irish — it's just sloppy usage. Same with "I done," "I seen," and other common errors.

Gwynplaine · 03-11-2019 02:25PM

June Cold Fighter wrote: »

The Irish language certainly exerts an influence on Hiberno-English, but there's also a pronounced tendency to ennoble bad grammar and misuse of words by crediting them to our Irish language heritage. Confusing "been" with its close homophone "being" doesn't derive from Irish — it's just sloppy usage. Same with "I done," "I seen," and other common errors.

That "bin your gum when you're done" ad.

Raconteuse · 03-11-2019 05:33PM

There's an anti intellectual reverse snobbery in fashion imo, and an example is this claim that sloppy writing in any context is fine - "language evolves" or something.

Now writing does not come easily to everyone - from difficulty with spelling/grammar to full blown dyslexia. Typos somewhere informal like here don't bother me, and I think it would be mean-spirited to pass comments on them. Walls of gibberish without any punctuation though (imagine talking like that, without pausing for breath at all; anyone should know where to indicate a pause) - difficult to read/take seriously. But the odd "I seen" or "over their" or "defiantly" etc - on informal social media it's not an issue imo.

However a newspaper or other formal publication? Ridiculous.

is_that_so · 03-11-2019 05:40PM

dd973 wrote: »

This is normal and natural, it's based on Irish language syntax which left it's traces on how we speak, same as 'yourself, himself, etc'

It's fossilisation of language; errors which are long fixed due to lack of correction. We would say, from Irish, after doing and after asking, which follow that grammar rule of a preposition followed by a gerund form.

jim-mcdee · 03-11-2019 06:45PM

Why was it a mistake for her to say what she is feeling? It's too bad that so many took offence to that. Why did you continue reading the article? Are you really just jealous? Seeing all the pages and pages of comments, looks like the paper and the journalist hit a hole in one. Or a home run.... I'm sure similar stories will follow....

mydingaling2 · 03-11-2019 06:51PM

Your going to be disappointed with whatever city you go to after New York to be fair.

Raconteuse · 03-11-2019 07:01PM

jim-mcdee wrote: »

Why was it a mistake for her to say what she is feeling? It's too bad that so many took offence to that. Why did you continue reading the article? Are you really just jealous? Seeing all the pages and pages of comments, looks like the paper and the journalist hit a hole in one. Or a home run.... I'm sure similar stories will follow....

Think it's more the whiney, self entitled tone - crying every day, ffs.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 03-11-2019 08:23PM

jim-mcdee wrote: »

Why was it a mistake for her to say what she is feeling? It's too bad that so many took offence to that. Why did you continue reading the article? Are you really just jealous? Seeing all the pages and pages of comments, looks like the paper and the journalist hit a hole in one. Or a home run.... I'm sure similar stories will follow....

When somebody lists laundry as one of their exciting NYC activities, I don’t think envy is what people feel.

PostWoke · 03-11-2019 10:32PM

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

When somebody lists laundry as one of their exciting NYC activities, I don’t think envy is what people feel.

You seem fixated on her smalls, but I don't think she wrote this article in the knowledge it would be picked apart by really bitter individuals. People miss strange things. NYC laundromats are a pretty unique experience, if she misses that, fair play to her, who is it hurting? She could be missing doing lines of coke off the back of some toilet in a club instead.

Raconteuse wrote: »

Think it's more the whiney, self entitled tone - crying every day, ffs.

Yeah who do sufferers of depression think they even are!!!!!!! So entitled!!!!!

Always Tired · 03-11-2019 10:40PM

dd973 wrote: »

This is normal and natural, it's based on Irish language syntax which left it's traces on how we speak, same as 'yourself, himself, etc'

No it's not, it's people using the wrong word because of the pronunciation being the same (in Ireland, because they don't say ing correctly). It has nothing to do with Gaelic or the himself/yourself thing.

People here do the same with seen/seeing.

Always Tired · 03-11-2019 10:45PM

jim-mcdee wrote: »

Why was it a mistake for her to say what she is feeling? It's too bad that so many took offence to that. Why did you continue reading the article? Are you really just jealous? Seeing all the pages and pages of comments, looks like the paper and the journalist hit a hole in one. Or a home run.... I'm sure similar stories will follow....

It's just that same sort of thing where even if you know your family is totally screwed up, you would be all up in arms if someone outside the family said it.

People know how depressing and crap this country is, but someone who dared to go elsewhere is basically an outsider to those who stay their whole lives in Ballybackarseville so woe betide them for complaining about it. And the vitriol is increased precisely BECAUSE everyone here is miserable and angry at being stuck in this backwater bogland. Simples.

Poor_old_gill · 03-11-2019 10:51PM

mydingaling2 wrote: »

Your going to be disappointed with whatever city you go to after New York to be fair.

I’m currently on holidays in LA and spent a bit of today walking through Long Beach- I can’t bloody wait to get back to Ireland!

The homelessness and poverty here makes Dublin seem like some kind of socialist paradise while I heard gunshots a while ago and sirens going off non stop.

So in conclusion - some places are nicer than others.

Comparing a nice area of NYC to anywhere else, other than maybe central Paris, is setting yourself up for a let down

PostWoke · 03-11-2019 10:56PM

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

I’m currently on holidays in LA and spent a bit of today walking through Long Beach- I can’t bloody wait to get back to Ireland!

So in conclusion - some places are nicer than others.

Or you're a bit homesick?

Poor_old_gill · 03-11-2019 11:00PM

PostWoke wrote: »

Or you're a bit homesick?

That’s it- I’ve cried everyday since I got here

Raconteuse · 03-11-2019 11:16PM

People are so selfish and ungrateful in this country where water is clean, food is plentiful, education is taken for granted, you can say what you like against the government, no war, no famine, a state supports apparatus. The usual response to the above is "oh great, it's not a third world country" - frankly yeah, life is a lottery and we won it being born here. Of course it isn't perfect, but people who just moan and don't do a thing to help change things and get aggressive towards those with a bit of perspective, wind me up.

PostWoke wrote: »

You seem fixated on her smalls, but I don't think she wrote this article in the knowledge it would be picked apart by really bitter individuals. People miss strange things. NYC laundromats are a pretty unique experience, if she misses that, fair play to her, who is it hurting? She could be missing doing lines of coke off the back of some toilet in a club instead.

Yeah who do sufferers of depression think they even are!!!!!!! So entitled!!!!!

Shur I've had depression. What does crying every day because a small city in Ireland isn't like NYC (which she would have known in the first place obviously) have to do with depression? Seems like she's the bitter one, along with her lickspittles saying her critics are slating her because they are jealous (being that emotionally fragile is really really nothing to be jealous of) or parochials who can't take criticism of Ireland. My cousin and her husband in NYC are jealous of me having a washing machine btw.

The criticism is of someone being that whiny and lacking self awareness and self absorbed and entitled. She knew it wouldn't be anything like NYC. It's life! What on earth is she feeling so hard done by?

Fine though if a person isn't happy when they come home from anywhere - that happens all the time.

Wompa1 · 03-11-2019 11:22PM

It's a mind boggling article. Kind of seems some people come back with a negative mindset and don't want to enjoy it.

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 04-11-2019 12:10AM

jim-mcdee wrote: »

Why was it a mistake for her to say what she is feeling?

Home after six years abroad, she wrote an article for a national newspaper raving about New York while describing Ireland as a parochial backwater with uninteresting people and nothing to do.

I'm sure she could have talked about her feelings without also insulting the entire country — but she didn't exactly err on the side of tact, did she?

I'm also a returned emigrant, but I do not pine for New York, which has some of the highest rents in the world, constant noise and sirens, numerous social problems, and a work culture that verges on the brutally insane. I worked in an industry where 80- to 100-hour weeks are considered normal. I wouldn't want to go back to any of that.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 04-11-2019 02:21AM

PostWoke wrote: »

You seem fixated on her smalls, but I don't think she wrote this article in the knowledge it would be picked apart by really bitter individuals. People miss strange things. NYC laundromats are a pretty unique experience, if she misses that, fair play to her, who is it hurting? She could be missing doing lines of coke off the back of some toilet in a club instead.

Yeah who do sufferers of depression think they even are!!!!!!! So entitled!!!!!

Laundry items are all kinds of things in all kinds of sizes. But you know that. You are the one who has brought up her smalls. Can you explain why you think I’m fixated on her underwear, using examples of where I have spoken about it? Not including this post obviously, which is a response to you bringing up her underwear, just so we’re clear.

Cookie_Monster · 04-11-2019 04:25AM

The trick with this is to realise it before you bother to go back to Ireland. Then you'll never have to worry about it and can just stay away

Lillyfae · 04-11-2019 07:22AM

PostWoke wrote: »

Um, no, not at all???????????????????????

You're thinking of toilet training.

No, I'm thinking that crying every day would only be considered normal in the case of small children.

I'm certainly not criticizing the woman, I'm just saying that if this is the case then that's a red flag for her mental health and leaving New York was probably for the best.

BENDYBINN · 04-11-2019 11:26AM

Always Tired wrote: »

It's just that same sort of thing where even if you know your family is totally screwed up, you would be all up in arms if someone outside the family said it.

People know how depressing and crap this country is, but someone who dared to go elsewhere is basically an outsider to those who stay their whole lives in Ballybackarseville so woe betide them for complaining about it. And the vitriol is increased precisely BECAUSE everyone here is miserable and angry at being stuck in this backwater bogland. Simples.

So true.....So many bitter backward individuals on here...standing at the headland up to their knees in cow****e
Nollaig maybe as daft as a brush but at least she got up off her backside and went somewhere!

PostWoke · 04-11-2019 01:26PM

Raconteuse wrote: »

Shur I've had depression. What does crying every day

Claiming to have had depression while not at all understanding depression, sure checks out, I definitely believe you.

June Cold Fighter wrote: »

Home after six years abroad, she wrote an article for a national newspaper raving about New York while describing Ireland as a parochial backwater with uninteresting people and nothing to do.

Silly hyperbole. Raving me hole.

bitofabind · 04-11-2019 02:11PM

She sounds like a fairly inexperienced returned emigrant coming home after her first real foray overseas.

It's a mindfcuk for most of us. You've adapted to a faster pace of life and a different way of thinking, different set of values and opportunities, you've evolved as a person and you come home expecting the world to also have changed.

Except it hasn't. Ireland is still tiny and people are still living within the same parameters that they were when you left. And what's more, that excited attention that you used to get on your annual Christmas homecomings dissipates fairly quickly once you're back for good, and people vary from not caring at all about the fact that you're back, to being downright irritated by your new "enlightened", "when I lived in NY" ways.

It's a tricky one, because you can really feel like a foreigner in your own home, and yet being abroad can leave you with a constant feeling of homesickness that never really strays too far. It's like you don't belong anywhere.

I'd say our girl Nollaig is just expressing that by latching onto tangible albeit benign things that seem to highlight it best. Belfast versus NY. Never a legitimate comparison. But to go from "the world is my oyster in this massive bustling city and I can be whoever I want!" to the relative slowness of a pretty small town where you're not special anymore for having an Irish accent or having lived abroad can be a pretty harrowing experience.

Lillyfae · 04-11-2019 02:28PM

bitofabind wrote: »

She sounds like a fairly inexperienced returned emigrant coming home after her first real foray overseas.

It's a mindfcuk for most of us. You've adapted to a faster pace of life and a different way of thinking, different set of values and opportunities, you've evolved as a person and you come home expecting the world to also have changed.

Except it hasn't. Ireland is still tiny and people are still living within the same parameters that they were when you left. And what's more, that excited attention that you used to get on your annual Christmas homecomings dissipates fairly quickly once you're back for good, and people vary from not caring at all about the fact that you're back, to being downright irritated by your new "enlightened", "when I lived in NY" ways.

It's a tricky one, because you can really feel like a foreigner in your own home, and yet being abroad can leave you with a constant feeling of homesickness that never really strays too far. It's like you don't belong anywhere.

I'd say our girl Nollaig is just expressing that by latching onto tangible albeit benign things that seem to highlight it best. Belfast versus NY. Never a legitimate comparison. But to go from "the world is my oyster in this massive bustling city and I can be whoever I want!" to the relative slowness of a pretty small town where you're not special anymore for having an Irish accent or having lived abroad can be a pretty harrowing experience.

I think you've hit the nail on the head here, it's just Nollaig's article didn't express it that way. I bet I'd be pretty displaced if I was to return to Ireland, but I wouldn't be blaming the place for that, or the people- it would be a consequence of my actions or decisions and nothing else.

bitofabind · 04-11-2019 02:59PM

Lillyfae wrote: »

I think you've hit the nail on the head here, it's just Nollaig's article didn't express it that way. I bet I'd be pretty displaced if I was to return to Ireland, but I wouldn't be blaming the place for that, or the people- it would be a consequence of my actions or decisions and nothing else.

Yeah it's a fairly emotionally immature reaction to be fair. She's young though, and has spent her years in NY listening to people tell her that anything is possible and suddenly, bang, it's not.

The human instinct in these situations can be to blame blame blame, and judge judge judge judge - you're not as enlightened as me and also, fcuk you for not changing like I have and not appreciating my new enlightened ways.

The reactions she'll be getting to that article sadly will probably just be reinforcing that view.

BENDYBINN · 04-11-2019 03:02PM

bitofabind wrote: »

Yeah it's a fairly emotionally immature reaction to be fair. She's young though, and has spent her years in NY listening to people tell her that anything is possible and suddenly, bang, it's not.

The human instinct in these situations can be to blame blame blame, and judge judge judge judge - you're not as enlightened as me and also, fcuk you for not changing like I have and not appreciating my new enlightened ways.

The reactions she'll be getting to that article sadly will probably just be reinforcing that view.

Sometimes though you have to go away to really see how fcuked up Eire is

partyguinness · 04-11-2019 03:09PM

Lillyfae wrote: »

I think you've hit the nail on the head here, it's just Nollaig's article didn't express it that way. I bet I'd be pretty displaced if I was to return to Ireland, but I wouldn't be blaming the place for that, or the people- it would be a consequence of my actions or decisions and nothing else.

I have written elsewhere (I have lived in England for last 10 years) that when you move away and head home 1-2 a year, you still think and visualise 'home' as it was back in say 2000/2001. You end up with a fossilized/nostalgic rose tinted view which is no longer reality.

The last few years at home for Christmas the place is dead. I go to the local and you can count the number of patrons. In say, 2000/2001 the place was absolutely jointed. I still expect to see the same heads around the place but of course we are now in our late 30's and early 40's- we have all moved on.

The issue for Nollaig unlike say me for example- I am just visiting for a week or two and I have not moved back. If I decided to move back for good it would be some shock but alright but I know what is waiting for me. But she seems to have had her hand forced on the issue which does not help.

Whingy Returning Emigrants

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