Predict Irish XXIII for 2023 RWC

Richie_Rich89 · 02-11-2019 11:38pm #1

1. Healy
2. Scannell
3. Furlong
4. Toner
5. Ryan
6. O'Mahony
7. van der Flier
8. Stander
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Stockdale
12. Henshaw
13. Ringrose
14. Earls
15. Kearney

16. Herring
17. Kilcoyne
18. Porter
19. Henderson
20. Murphy
21. McGrath
22. Carbery
23. Larmour

Squidgy Black · 03-11-2019 12:17am

1. Eric O'Sullivan
2. Ronan Kelleher
3. Tadhg Furlong
4. James Ryan
5. Iain Henderson
6. Dan Leavy
7. Josh Van der Flier
8. Jack Conan
9. Conor Murray
10. Joey Carbery
11. James Lowe
12. Robbie Henshaw
13. Garry Ringrose
14. Shane Daly
15. Jordan Larmour

16. Adam McBurney
17. Jack McGrath
18. Andrew Porter
19. Ryan Baird
20. Scott Penny
21. Jamieson Gibson Park
22. Harry Byrne
23. Jacob Stockdale

Wegians89 · 03-11-2019 12:24am

1. Eric o Sullivan
2. Kelleher
3. Furlong
4. Gallagher
5. Ryan
6. Leavy
7. Vdf/ penny
8. Conan
9. Casey
10. H. Byrne
11. Lowe
12. Robb
13. Ringrose
14. Larmour
15. Carbery

16. Tierney-Martin
17. McGrath
18. Porter
19. Henderson
20. O Donofhue
21. Blade
22. Henshaw
23. Stockdale

awec · 03-11-2019 12:31am

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

1. Healy
2. Scannell
3. Furlong
4. Toner
5. Ryan
6. O'Mahony
7. van der Flier
8. Stander
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Stockdale
12. Henshaw
13. Ringrose
14. Earls
15. Kearney

16. Herring
17. Kilcoyne
18. Porter
19. Henderson
20. Murphy
21. McGrath
22. Carbery
23. Larmour

If I see a 37 year old Rob Kearney tog out for Ireland at full back I'm officially done.

Squidgy Black · 03-11-2019 12:38am

awec wrote: »

If I see a 37 year old Rob Kearney tog out for Ireland at full back I'm officially done.

Alongside a 36 year old Earls, 38 year old Sexton and 37 year old Toner no less.

Richie_Rich89 · 03-11-2019 1:02am

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Alongside a 36 year old Earls, 38 year old Sexton and 37 year old Toner no less.

Sexton has spoken about wanting to be like Tom Brady and play on till he's 40. Sportspeople in general are keeping going much longer than decades ago. There are loads of top level boxers in their mid or even late 30s. Look at Justin Gatlin winning a World Championships silver medal in the 100m at the age of 37. No reason Earls and Kearney can't keep going for another four years.

awec · 03-11-2019 1:11am

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Sexton has spoken about wanting to be like Tom Brady and play on till he's 40. Sportspeople in general are keeping going much longer than decades ago. There are loads of top level boxers in their mid or even late 30s. Look at Justin Gatlin winning a World Championships silver medal in the 100m at the age of 37. No reason Earls and Kearney can't keep going for another four years.

You better convince me that you're not trolling at this stage.

The Lost Sheep · 03-11-2019 1:26am

On my phone but can someone edit in the threads from 2011 for the 2015 world cup and same from 2015 for this competition

ClanofLams · 03-11-2019 1:34am

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

On my phone but can someone edit in the threads from 2011 for the 2015 world cup and same from 2015 for this competition

2019 https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057474430/1

2015 https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2056389107

Hanrahan at 15 with Rory Scholes on the wing for ‘19 and McFadden at 12 with a second row combination of Nagle and Tuohy for 2015, predictions taken from the first team in each thread show how ridiculous it is to try this. But a bit of craic I suppose.

jay0109 · 03-11-2019 1:38am

5 Clongowes
4 Blackrock
3 St Michaels
1 Gonzaga
1 Newbridge
1 King's Hospital

Guaranteed victory

Squidgy Black · 03-11-2019 1:43am

Reading back through the 2019 thread, almost everyone had Marty Moore starting, the move to Wasps was really a terrible decision for him.

Also the below jem from IBF:

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If you put a player into this thread who has yet to play for their province, you curse them. That is a fact. And I know this because I did it to players myself.

Hard luck Jordan Larmour and James Ryan, I had high hopes for you.

gally74 · 03-11-2019 10:56am

My prediction,

4 players traveled injured,

7 players travel on poor form but have central contracts,

10 get left st home as they never got consistent enough exposure, not 10 mins here n there

Muligatawney · 03-11-2019 5:11pm

McGrath (33)
Scannell (31)
Furlong (30)
Henderson (31)
Ryan (27)
Leavy (29)
van der Flier (30)
Conan (31)
Marmion (31)
Carbery (27)
Stockdale (27)
Henshaw (30)
Ringrose (28)
Lowe (31)
Larmour (26)

Kelleher (25)
O'Sullivan (27)
Porter (27)
Dillane (29)
Deegan (27)
McGrath (30)
Lowry (25)
Addison (31)

Richie_Rich89 · 05-11-2019 1:52am

Thinking of predicting future teams, I think the 2023 RWC will come a bit too soon for Joe Tomane. To qualify for Ireland through the Olympic 7s loophole he'd first need citizenship, which he'd be eligible for in Summer 2023. Then he'd need to play in four Olympic qualifying 7s events to be able to switch his allegiance to Ireland. But if it's the same as it was this time the qualifying events for Paris 2024 will take place too early in 2023 for him to be qualified, so he'll have to wait until 2027 to qualify. But he should be an option in the green jumper for the 2027 tournament in Argentina, Australia or Russia anyway.

Tomane being away on international duty with Ireland from 2027 onwards would finally open the door for Conor O'Brien to get the gametime he needs to develop at age 31.

macslash · 05-11-2019 2:05am

You were going well there for a while..

DonVito · 05-11-2019 2:51am

1. Callum Reid
2. Ronan Kelleher
3. Tadhg Furlong
4. Iain Henderson
5. James Ryan
6. Dan Leavy
7. Josh Van der Flier
8. Jack Conan
9. Conor Murray
10. Joey Carbery
11. Jacob Stockdale
12. Robbie Henshaw
13. Garry Ringrose
14. Aaron Sexton
15. Will Addison

Honourable Mentions: Jack Boyle, James Lowe, Harry Byrne & Ryan Baird

Not to toot my own horn here but I got 10/15 the last time we did this. Were it not for injury I should have had 11/15.

salmocab · 05-11-2019 11:40am

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Reading back through the 2019 thread, almost everyone had Marty Moore starting, the move to Wasps was really a terrible decision for him.

Also the below jem from IBF:

To be fair that Furlong would have knocked him at both Leinster and Ireland anyway.

The Lost Sheep · 05-11-2019 2:41pm

Cork29 wrote: »

If i was the manager my number 1 goal would to be get the 15 best athletes on the pitch. We have plenty of big men not as first choice.

These players will prob not be first choice ever in the centre.

In this 4 year cycle i would convert Stuart McCloskey to a back row position. He is sized up all ready, speed good hands etc.

Born: August 6, 1992 (age 27 years), Bangor, United Kingdom
Height: 1.93 m
Weight: 111 kg

Same with Chris Farrell

Born: March 16, 1993 (age 26 years), Belfast, United Kingdom
Height: 1.91 m
Weight: 110 kg

Same with Sam Arnold

Born: April 8, 1996 (age 23 years), Surrey, United Kingdom
Height: 1.83 m
Weight: 95 kg

I dont get why you would do that.

Getting best athletes on pitch is first but you need to look at basics of a position as well and these wouldnt do in the backrow.
Why do we need to be going way of getting all big men in the team.

The Lost Sheep · 05-11-2019 2:49pm

Cork29 wrote: »

These are big men with serious speed also, that is the difference better athletes than say Peter O'Ma.

Can you tell me why they would not do in the backrow?

They have 4 years to be ready for a world cup.

Peter o mahony is an excellent athlete
And they've never played backrow. You have a very different outlook to playing the game in backrow to centre.they are big but that doesnt mean they'll be any good in backrow. Care to show why other than them being big and quick(quick compared to who btw) that they would be good in backrow?

Podge_irl · 05-11-2019 2:57pm

Has outright speed generally been a key factor in playing number 6?

Podge_irl · 05-11-2019 3:09pm

Cork29 wrote: »

Look up Stephen Ferris in youtube.

I don't need to, I've seen him play plenty. First of all, his main asset was not his speed and secondly none of the players you mention have the remotest chance of ever being anything like him. Why on earth you think Ulster or Munster would even entertain both losing good centres and putting up with **** backrows for a number of years is beyond me.

This is about as good an idea as moving Jordan Coughlan to number 12 was.

Podge_irl · 05-11-2019 3:15pm

I would conjecture that any player who has never once played a professional game in the backrow, or anywhere in the forward pack, will be pretty **** when they try.

aloooof · 05-11-2019 3:20pm

Cork29 wrote: »

Short term view..... I agree but maybe in 4 years time they be world class?

If this is such a good idea, presumably you can name countless players who have transitioned from centre to world class backrows in a 4 year cycle?

Mr Tickle · 05-11-2019 3:21pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

I would conjecture that any player who has never once played a professional game in the backrow, or anywhere in the forward pack, will be pretty **** when they try.

I know it's lunch time but maybe don't feed the trolls

The Lost Sheep · 05-11-2019 3:56pm

Cork29 wrote: »

I can name a team that has never won a knockout world cup match.

Did we have out best 15 athletes on the pitch sadly no

We need to try something?

we do but moving guys who've never been backs to centre is not the answer. It would be ridiculous to try it.
And can you name players who were pros and were converted from backrow to centre. Plenty done it at age grade but if it was this simple then you have plenty of successful examples

Quin_Dub · 05-11-2019 4:01pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

we do but moving guys who've never been backs to centre is not the answer. It would be ridiculous to try it.
And can you name players who were pros and were converted from backrow to centre. Plenty done it at age grade but if it was this simple then you have plenty of successful examples

This exactly - I absolutely think we should be looking at the current top prospect 18/19 year olds and having discussions about this kind of thing. Trying to move a 25 yr old is WAY too late.

The Lost Sheep · 05-11-2019 4:09pm

Quin_Dub wrote: »

This exactly - I absolutely think we should be looking at the current top prospect 18/19 year olds and having discussions about this kind of thing. Trying to move a 25 yr old is WAY too late.

25 is too late for pro rugby but you can see it happen at AIL level albeit very irregularly

Cork29 wrote: »

We have a small pick the players i mentioned will not be playing centre for ireland in 4 years time

The way rugby is played less of a difference between backs and forwards.

Brian O’Driscoll one of the best for poaching a ball etc

there is still huge differences though and yes o Driscoll was excellent at turning ball over that doesnt mean he would have made an excellent backrow.
Are you going to provide examples to back your point up then?

The Lost Sheep · 05-11-2019 4:34pm

Cork29 wrote: »

I can not give you examples.

We have such a small pool of players every effort should be made to make best use.

So what if it now work out what is lost. The players i mentioned are not going to be first choice in the centre.

I even go as far as say sam aronold is 4 if not 5 choice in his position at munster.

We need to have our best most dynamic players on the pitch simple

this wouldn't be best use of players. They may not be first choice centres but would be nowhere near good enough as backrow. You cant just say these would be better than actual out and out backrows. They're not more dynamic than many backrows or at least you cant show they would be more influential on games than guys who've always played backrow

cson · 05-11-2019 4:35pm

Sure why don't we just start practicing eugenics and be done with it? Lab grown players for each position.

The Lost Sheep · 05-11-2019 7:35pm

Cork29 wrote: »

How can you say not best use of players? Did you see us at the world cup we were like a limp biscuit. We need some wrecking balls hard running ball carrriers.

These players are international centres i would be quite sure they have the skillset

maybe we do. But moving guys from centre isnt thebanswer and suggesting it shows a complete lack of awareness of both the players and the positions and how tough it would be to change position. It wasnt wrecking ball ball carriers that we were lacking. It was a lot more than that

salmocab · 05-11-2019 7:40pm

I’m sure the players would be delighted to see their careers go down the spout for an experiment.

sydthebeat · 05-11-2019 8:18pm

We're very close to shark jumping territory here.

We had plenty of ball carrying threat up front. Healy furlong and porter often make good ground around the fringes when playing for Leinster. Henderson is a fantastic explosive ball carrier, one of his main strengths. Ryan simply never goes backwards in the tight. CJ obviously can do it, Conan is great in the loose. It's not JVDFs main strength but the guy has serious wheels. POM was a winger at an earlier age, but concentrates not these days on creating space for others. Leavy is very powerful and fast, hopefully he can get back to those levels. Jordi has shown in top level games he has that in his locker as well.

The problem is for the last 4 years we haven't been playing in a way which exploits this. We have been, up to now hopefully, a very much risk averse possession based team. This isn't down to not having the players to play another way.... But rather down to getting the best results on a particular day.

Joes gone. We don't know yet how farrell will set up his team.

But we certainly do not need knee jerk reactions of getting to turn centers into flankers.... Competely different skill sets required, and instincts, for both which are honed over years....

Its not like gaa where you throw a full back up full forward and hope he shines....

Faugheen · 05-11-2019 8:37pm

Cork29 wrote: »

Brian Corcoran, Diarmuid Osullivan lots more examples if you are a hurler you can play anywhere. Same wiith rugby.

You can’t.

Stop this nonsense. You’ve clearly never played a game of rugby before.

sydthebeat · 05-11-2019 8:43pm

Cork29 wrote: »

Can you show me any clips at this world cup of these players ball carrying?

As i keep saying we need to get explosive athletes on the pitch was have some that can be worked in

Brian Corcoran, Diarmuid Osullivan lots more examples if you are a hurler you can play anywhere. Same wiith rugby.

If you think that's comparable with rugby, the your knowledge is extremely limited.

aloooof · 05-11-2019 8:46pm

Cork29 wrote: »

Brian Corcoran, Diarmuid Osullivan lots more examples if you are a hurler you can play anywhere. Same wiith rugby.

It’s really not the same. It’s even written into the laws of the game, when it comes to props. You’re literally prevented from playing anywhere.

sydthebeat · 05-11-2019 8:55pm

Cork29 wrote: »

They have 4 years to get to the world cup, can they not be trained to play the position?

Has Ireland ever won a knock out match in the world cup in pretty much a 8 team competition? Need to think outside the box. Get the best/explosive athletes trained up...

Do you not realise that players hone skills over many years... And that rugby positions have VERY specific skills for certain positions??

Do you not also realise that players are directed towards certain positions in their development which suits their skills, physique and temperment??

I'm going to suggest you don't realise this.... As you're gaa analogy shows.

I'll also repeat that our poor RWC performance was as much, if not more, the result of the style of play we employed.. Than the players we played.

If you watched our players regularly you'd see that they are all capable of being strong back carriers.

Faugheen · 05-11-2019 8:56pm

Cork29 wrote: »

They have 4 years to get to the world cup, can they not be trained to play the position?

Has Ireland ever won a knock out match in the world cup in pretty much a 8 team competition? Need to think outside the box. Get the best/explosive athletes trained up...

A position they might never have played in in their entire lives? No they f*cking can’t.

Watch any time someone in the backs has to go into the back row of a scrum to make up numbers when someone is in the sin-bin. The vast majority look like they’ve never done it before.

Seriously. You need to stop this absolutely mad tirade because it’s not how it works.

You’ve never played a game of rugby, so when it comes to these types of discussions you’re out of your depth.

Faugheen · 05-11-2019 9:11pm

Cork29 wrote: »

Nothing mad about it, train the players if it works out great.

As i said we never won a kcockout world cup match in 7 goes in pretty much a 8 team competition. How it is working now has been proved to not work. We need to try make the best of our resources? Do you think Mccloskey will play centre for Ireland. Only if about 5 players missing. Earls play centre before him

Need to start thinking outside the box. Simple as that

‘Thinking outside the box’ is a whole lot different to what you’re suggesting. What you’re suggesting is dangerous in a game like rugby.

You don’t respond to any points made. You just keep saying the same things over and over. You’re wrong. Give it up.

Either that or you’re trolling, which I’m growing very suspicious of.

Richie_Rich89 · 05-11-2019 9:13pm

Predictable dismissive and snobbish response to Cork29's suggestion. Brad Thorn and Sam Burgess (for Bath) can switch from league and play in the forwards but it's completely out of the question for players who've been playing union all their lives to learn how to maul and push in the scrum.

Clegg · 05-11-2019 9:14pm

If you want a serious answer re converting centres to backrows the first thing you have to consider is conditioning. The fitness work a backrow forward does is competely different to that of a big, ball carrying centre. Backrows do a lot of tackling at close quarters, they often amass the most tackles for the team. They do a lot of tight ball carrying where they scrap for every inch and they're often contesting the ruck where they torpedo themselves against the opposition and vice versa.

McCloskey and Farrell don't do much of this work which makes them able to make the huge carries. They simply have the energy to do it. Slap a 6 or 8 on their back and the entire focus of the game changes. They won't be able to make those carries. Or they'd have to be very selective as to when they can actually do it.

Richie_Rich89 · 05-11-2019 9:19pm

I'd say O'Driscoll would have been an excellent openside flank forward.

Squidgy Black · 05-11-2019 9:20pm

Cork29 wrote: »

How is it dangerous.

I am saying we switch players, get our best athletes on the pitch?

Have you seen the size of Mccloskey, have you seen him off load this is the kind of athlete we need. Have you seen his ball carrying. Simple as.

I do not think he gets in the team in current position. For a number 6 he could be unreal with his skill set.

I am not saying give him number 6 jersey now

Have you seen McCloskey clear a ruck that isn't just another back or jackal against an opposition backrow? Or take on a carry from the base of a ruck? Or pack down in a scrum? Lift in a lineout?

They're all fundamental skills that a backrow needs and are something that some players will just pick up in a handful of training sessions. For the players safety too, you can't just slap them into those kind of positions open to clear outs without the correct body position or else they'll be folded, the amount of serious injuries that occur to top level backrows like Leavy, Warburton etc who have played there for years. On top of that, Ulster have no requirement for McCloskey to play 6, why would they agree to it?

jacothelad · 05-11-2019 9:22pm

FFS. There is not enough air getting in.

Clegg · 05-11-2019 9:24pm

Cork29 wrote: »

They have 4 years to get them ready, with a 6 2 split on bench like South Africa, they need to be able to play 50mins if starting 30 if finishing

The entire point of my post is that Farrell and McCloskey would be radically different players if they were in the backrow. They wouldn't be making big bursting runs and skittling over defenders. They'd be running at equally big men, again and again. They game would be much more measured and significantly less explosive.

salmocab · 05-11-2019 9:40pm

Again why would players give up a few years for an experiment and risk mucking up their careers not to mention why why would a province pick someone out of position consistently over someone who can do it?
They’ll look at Jordan coughlan and see how it went for him

Clegg · 05-11-2019 9:44pm

Cork29 wrote: »

Stephen Ferris and Sean OB that is what they did when they were fit.

Farrell, McCloskey have this same type of speed and power. I suspect they are faster then most forwards.

What i am saying is we need to get more explosive athletes in the team these are 2 examples that have potential to get in a team and add this

You've just completely ignored everything I posted.

Suppose I've only myself to blame for getting sucked in.

sydthebeat · 05-11-2019 9:48pm

Cork29..

If you want to watch a team of homogeneous 'explosive' atheletes bang heads off each other... Which doesn't need particular set piece skill.... Then I've great news for you.

There's already a sport out there which does that.

sydthebeat · 05-11-2019 9:49pm

Cork29 wrote: »

They have 4 years to get them ready, with a 6 2 split on bench like South Africa, they need to be able to play 50mins if starting 30 if finishing

We do that and we're four years behind everyone else, at least!

I'd prefer to see us turn to a more expansive as that's how I see the future of rugby going. I think Cullen and Lancaster in Leinster have the right idea of moving the point of contact and being comfortable to make decisions in chaos. I want clever rugby played, not head banging stuff that we've seen lately.

Anyway, there's no way you can convert a club first team center into an international back row.... No club would agree to such upheavel

You target the players at younger ages into positions which suit....

sydthebeat · 05-11-2019 9:55pm

Cork29 wrote: »

i just want us to be able to match England,South africa, australia etc they are selecting these type of athletes

Hooper and pocock are as far from center type atheletes as you could imagine???

Peter SDT, world player of the year, is a bullocking 120kg 6' 6" monster who plays at seven.

Michael Hooper is 20kg lighter and a whole 6" smaller

I think you've got some things confused in your head.

sydthebeat · 05-11-2019 9:56pm

Cork29 wrote: »

with the players i mentioned would be far more expansive for sure.

Need athletes to play expansive rugby

Serious question.

Do you think the Irish team is small??

sydthebeat · 05-11-2019 9:58pm

Cork29 wrote: »

with the players i mentioned would be far more expansive for sure.

Need athletes to play expansive rugby

You need skill to secure your set piece.

We've just seen what one team can do to another in one facet of the game... And win a world title.

Go over and watch some rugby league... As it sounds like that's what you are looking for.

Predict Irish XXIII for 2023 RWC

Comments