oldgit1897 wrote: »

Its also down to economies of scale and the whole rigmarole of getting a licence here.......... the shops can buy them cheap and sell them cheap.

Yep, understood and agreed. 3+ months waiting, storage, overheads, staff, utilities, etc. All part and parcel of it. However this:

Talk to any dealer here and they will tell you there is very little to be made on selling guns,.............

I don't believe for a second. The prices are just too varying for this to be true.

Over the years and even today i've seen different shops selling the exact same rifle, shotgun, scope, ammo, etc. but the prices can be as much as 30% different.

Few examples:

Remington 700 in 308 (CDL)

1. Shop 1 - €950
2. Shop 2 - €975
3. Shop 3 - €1,125
4. Shop 4 - €1,050

Difference of €275 between cheapest and most expensive. Highest mark up of 27%.

Ruger 10/22 (standard/entry model)

• Shop 1 - €475
• Shop 2 - €450
• Shop 3 - €575
• Shop 4 - €550

Difference of €125 between cheapest and most expensive. Highest mark up of 26%

Hawke Sidewinder 6-24

• Shop 1 - €450
• Shop 2 - €515
• Shop 3 - €460
• Shop 4 - €595

Difference of €145 between cheapest and most expensive. Highest mark up of 32%.

Hornady Superformance 308

• Shop 1 - €49
• Shop 2 - €50
• Shop 3 - €54
• Shop 4 - €52

Difference of €5 between cheapest and most expensive. Highest mark up of 11%.


I know the answer is to shop around, but i've seen one dealer that has a mark up of €2 per BOX of cartridges and gives no discount for bulk purchases (per slab). So over each slab he is making €20, on top of the money he would make selling it at the price everyone else is.

I've seen the same with suppressors with one shop selling them for €360 and the most expensive selling the exact same one in the same caliber for €475.

It brings me back to the question above. If the shops selling at the lower prices are making a profit selling at the price(s) they charge, what are the ones selling it for 10%, 20% and 30%+ making on it (other than the obvious) and why?

oldgit1897 wrote: »

One lad comes in buys a rifle, leaving a deposit on it and is not seen again for 18 months because the local super is acting the ball-of-wax issuing a cert. So the dealer had to pay for the rifle in full and then wait 18 months to make maybe 250 euros.

Again i understand that aspect and it is annoying but its perhaps the exception and not the rule. Add to that, its one lad over his entire time waiting. An RFD can have dozens of lads waiting over a variety of time frames for their licenses. In other words how many firearm sales are there per week per RFD? How long are the different guys waiting on their license? Is it all new licenses or subs? What is the actual wait times per district? What districts are the guys buying coming from? There is simply too much data to say it's "X" reason for high prices. Considering the majority of RFDs are one man shows, or small set ups. Only a handful, and i'm talking low single digits, would have a staff of 3 or more and the higher overheads that come with such a shop.

Also this is only the firearm part of the industry. Scopes, binoculars, ammo, other accessories, clothing, etc. require no license(s) and no waiting time.

Look, i'm not making out, or at least i'm not trying to, the RFDs are out to gouge the community. I travel an hour and a half to my RFD because he has a great selection, is one of the cheapest around, will order in something regardless of what he has in stock, will take any trade in, and is eager to help his customers.

It just seems some RFDs are in it for the "quick sale" and not interested in repeat business even though they are around years. I see lads that, from conversations, appear to be regulars, and i wonder how they continue to pay the prices in some shops when i know other RFDs are selling at between 15 to 30% less if they only traveled an hour in any direction.

I realise talking about it here won't change or solve anything and i don't expect it to. I also know the soul crushing taxation and administration we live under in Ireland INCLUDING the RFDs, so i'm not laying all this or even the majority of it at their feet.

I simply believe that based on actual, real world, prices i've seen across a variety of RFDs that we [the shooting community] are being ................ exploited? gouged? taken advantage off? ............ not sure of the right word(ing).

kowloon wrote: »

It doesn't seem like there are many people queuing up to become RFDs.

I wouldn't imagine so. Like any business it requires capital, investment, and in the case of firearm sales, a huge amount of administration.

The cost of entry is high

There are security requirements that will demand an initial outlay, but again like any other business the start up cost is no different. Whether that capital comes from owned money or loaned money is, to my point, irrelevant because whether it's a donut shop, chipper, fitted kitchens, or firearms the basic start up of any business is the same.

and the risk of losing your business or parts of it without warning or compensation is high.

In what sense. I understand what you mean, i think, but i'm unsure as to any actual examples of this happening. The C/F pistol ban in 2009 would the only thing i can think off, but there wasn't exactly a thriving market for C/F pistols to begin with.

Perhaps it's those barriers to entry that are the problem as opposed to money made by established RFDs.

There is no doubt that laws in the past ten years have tightened up how the industry runs/works, but costs haven't changed that much and to suggest that a lack of competition is the reason why some RFDs (and only a handful i know of) are using it as an excuse to charge higher prices only highlights my point about prices.

I'm not an RFD, but have a limited understanding/knowledge of some of the costs and to me the RFD license fee is basically the same the last ten years, as is the restricted RFD license fee. Security may cost more due to the RFD SI, but how much more given the nature of their business and the security needed anyway? Other amenities and utilities are the same as every other business (staff, electricity, rent, etc). Increases in VAT, Duty, etc. on products are passed onto the customer, and only last year (found it, from 2017) there were articles and e-mails sent out (which i got) about how due to Brexit and the dropping value of the pound, UK based suppliers would be increasing the cost of products by between 10 to 15% at a minimum and that increase would be passed onto customers.

Now most if not all dealers here buy from the UK including ammo. The UK buys from Europe, and possibly the states, so we're getting hit with multiple shipping costs, multiple handling costs, exchange rates, and now a "fee" for the drop in value of the pound. Funny thing is since 2017 the pound has stabilised somewhat and while not back to 2015/2016 levels it's not at the lows it was in 2017 we're still getting the "fee".

If this is going to be not only an ongoing event but get worse when Brexit does finally happen (sometime in the late 24th century), and as i said above, we're going to get hit even harder if a supplier(s) is not found within the EU and cut out the UK.

I asked before, what would it take for RFDs, seeing as how they have their own associations, to pool together and set up a supplier directly from the states.

oldgit1897 wrote: »

Its not just shooting stuff though.

True.

We pay far more for cars then other countries,

Because when the EU told Ireland you cannot keep, illegally, charging duty on car imports they changed it to VRT and problem solved (for them).

I discussed this very issue not so long ago.

and now that all the parties are going green, that is not going to change.

That is going to be fun.

Electricity suppliers saying they cannot keep up with demands as it is, and with plans to ban petrol and diesel cars in the next 10 or so years, we'll see.

I listed the issues with electric cars here.

Its just the nature of this country.

Yeah, and like i'm doing right now, we bitch and moan but simply lay quietly while it happens.

That is what i thought you meant alright, but, and without being flippant, if they work on the basis of "it could be banned at any minute" then it's alarmist and frankly a piss poor excuse for overcharging (again in some cases, not all).

This thread has seemingly turned into me attacking all RFDs. It's not the case. I keep saying it's not all them, and i know of only two RFDs that i would rank as being excessively overpriced compared to any other dealer i've dealt with.

As for the other 95% of RFDs their prices, while in line with each other, is just so much more than what our American and even European counterparts pay that it makes you wonder.

kowloon wrote: »

It's ball shrinkingly cold out,......

That s**t someone else said it. Thought i was getting soft in my old age, and that is was "just me" feeling it.. Heating has been on for the last couple of hours and i'm trying my best not to fall off the rad.