NBP part II

clohamon · 22-10-2019 03:19PM

Messer1 wrote: »

If not already seen, you might find reservations about the proposed contract expressed at the Oireachtas Committee by Professor Eoin Reeves, Head of Department of Economics and Dr. Dónal Palcic, Lecturer in Economics, University of Limerick about the 'gap funding model' adopted for the NBP to be helpful in understanding things.

Scroll in 30 min for start.
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/joint_committee_on_communications_climate_action_and_environment/2019-06-19/

It’s worth noting that the usual suspects who are denigrating the NBP because it’s not publicly owned are the same people that defer to misgivings of the SecGen of DPER.

It was the Minister and SecGen of DPER who insisted on private ownership.

The Cush · 22-10-2019 03:28PM

Jack Chambers takes over from Timmy as FF Communications spokesman "for the foreseeable".

The Cush · 23-10-2019 08:04AM

celticbhoy27 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1186595437865832448?s=09

Labour Party motion to keep national broadband network in public ownership is down for debate late this afternoon

Wed, 23 Oct 2019

17.20 Private Members’ Business (Labour Party): Motion re National Broadband Plan

Text of the motion is:

“That Dáil Éireann:

— notes the Report of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Communications, Climate Action and Environment entitled ‘Report on an investigation to examine the National Broadband Plan process thus far and how best to proceed and the best means to roll out rural broadband’, which was laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas on the 27th August, 2019;
— endorses the view of the Oireachtas Joint Committee that: high speed broadband is a vital piece of infrastructure for rural Ireland and should be provided as quickly as possible, to the same standard as is available commercially in other parts of the country, at the same cost to consumers as elsewhere and at best value to the taxpayer; and
— the broadband network infrastructure should be under the ownership of the State, as it is strategically important; and
— resolves that public moneys should not be expended on any proposed broadband telecommunications network unless such a network is, or is to be, owned by a Minister of the Government or a public body on behalf of the people.”

Sean Sherlock, Brendan Howlin, Joan Burton, Alan Kelly, Jan O'Sullivan, Willie Penrose, Brendan Ryan.

https://www.labour.ie/news/2019/10/22/public-money-demands-public-ownership-of-broadband/

recyclebin · 23-10-2019 08:49AM

I still don't see the point in public ownership of the NBP. The Irish State would not have the knowledge to manage or maintain it so it would still be outsourced to a private company. Its also the rural part of the broadband network so not a huge asset to have.

It would only make sense if the state owned the entire fibre network in the country and not a small part of it.

The Cush · 24-10-2019 12:26AM

I'm not a big fan of John McGuirk but …

https://twitter.com/john_mcguirk/status/1187145809369939968

Ultimanemo · 24-10-2019 06:01AM

recyclebin wrote: »

I still don't see the point in public ownership of the NBP. The Irish State would not have the knowledge to manage or maintain it so it would still be outsourced to a private company. Its also the rural part of the broadband network so not a huge asset to have.

It would only make sense if the state owned the entire fibre network in the country and not a small part of it.

Probably the guy speaking doesn't the difference between eir exchange and electric cabin, It is just ideology, Labour Party is the western take on communism.

clohamon · 24-10-2019 09:49AM

The Cush wrote: »

I'm not a big fan of John McGuirk but …

https://twitter.com/john_mcguirk/status/1187145809369939968

But they'd be buying a liability. Every penny in upgrades, maintenance, and all the rest of it. Forever.

Pretty hard to say if NBP network will make money after 25/35 years but the existing private owner of the rural telecom network didn’t maintain or upgrade it. Which is why an expensive intervention is necessary.

Would the cashflow that was diverted from maintenance and upgrade into paying dividends over the last 20 years have been enough to to deliver universal FTTP by now? My guess is that it would.

Marlow · 24-10-2019 10:19AM

clohamon wrote: »

Would the cashflow that was diverted from maintenance and upgrade into paying dividends over the last 20 years have been enough to to deliver universal FTTP by now? My guess is that it would.

That is assuming, that the money stayed within the incumbent. Ireland does not precisely have a track record of spending tax money or money earned from state companies, where the income occurs.

The government could well have done the same thing, pulled the money out in the equivalent to dividents and funnelled it into the exchequer.

So above is a big if.

/M

clohamon · 24-10-2019 10:39AM

Marlow wrote: »

That is assuming, that the money stayed within the incumbent. Ireland does not precisely have a track record of spending tax money or money earned from state companies, where the income occurs.

The government could well have done the same thing, pulled the money out in the equivalent to dividents and funnelled it into the exchequer.

So above is a big if.

/M

Yes, but that's more like a political question about allocation. Like whether the uplift from competent universal broadband would have been greater than say reducing taxes or investing in other things.
Even so, the money would have remained in Ireland (assuming the State could have run Telecom Eireann efficiently)

False Prophet · 24-10-2019 02:33PM

Well they lost the vote so thats prob the end of nbp or at the very least more delays

The Cush · 24-10-2019 03:17PM

False Prophet wrote: »

Well they lost the vote so thats prob the end of nbp or at the very least more delays

It'll make no difference to the process, just a vote on the motion and amendments to the motion. FF has already said they won't be collapsing the government over the NBP.

The motion debate can be read here - https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2019-10-23/35/
Vote results - https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2019-10-24/28/

Pique · 24-10-2019 03:48PM

Jan O'Sullivan: We have not received a proper explanation as to why 300,000 homes were allowed to be squandered to Eir - that may not be the right word to use

Brendan Howlin: It certainly is.

Ugh

clohamon · 24-10-2019 03:57PM

The list of NBP Broadband Connection Points has been released for a select audience....

https://twitter.com/gloverstweets/status/1187330278043324418

...and in a completely unrelated event the winners of the third call of the WiFi4EU €15K award have been announced. (Note: Irish winners are in code eg 'Laois B')

MUNICIPALITY NAME
Cork County D
Monaghan A
Cork County C
Monaghan B
Clare C
Kilkenny D
Clare D
Cork County A
Cork County B
Laois A
Laois B
Laois C
Laois D
Cork City B
Offaly B
Offaly D

tsue921i8wljb3 · 24-10-2019 04:34PM

clohamon wrote: »

The list of NBP Broadband Connection Points has been released for a select audience....

https://twitter.com/gloverstweets/status/1187330278043324418

...and in a completely unrelated event the winners of the third call of the WiFi4EU €15K award have been announced. (Note: Irish winners are in code eg 'Laois B')

MUNICIPALITY NAME
Cork County D
Monaghan A
Cork County C
Monaghan B
Clare C
Kilkenny D
Clare D
Cork County A
Cork County B
Laois A
Laois B
Laois C
Laois D
Cork City B
Offaly B
Offaly D

Not released as such. Someone may have sent him a section of the list

The Cush · 24-10-2019 09:53PM

Due diligence will continue following the Dáil motion on NBP ownership

A Government source said on Thursday night that final due diligence would continue because “what the deputies are calling for would mean abandoning broadband and rural Ireland for at least five years”.

Mr Bruton said the State had to rent 1.5 million poles and 15,000km of duct. “We need a company to string fibre along that private network in order to reach those who would otherwise not be reached. That is the reality.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-holds-broadband-course-despite-state-ownership-vote-1.4061906

Common sense from Michael Fitzmaurice

Michael Fitzmaurice said people were fed up hearing about broadband. He said it was about the 20th debate on the issue and after the vote “damn all” would happen.

“We will not have broadband this Christmas or probably next Christmas because the will does not seem to be there.”

He said that if the Government “is going to sign a contract it should get on and do it and if not, it should come out and say so and let us go to the polls and face the people”.

KOR101 · 24-10-2019 11:00PM

RE. Michael Fitzmaurice

Pure BS. The govt is 100% behind plan.

What can it do. Ignore the submissions?

Suspend the rule of law if there is a legal case?

Anyone who criticizes the government's resolve just hasn't been following the story.

ussjtrunks · 24-10-2019 11:50PM

When it came to giving rural Irish people electricity the government actually got it done instead of saying “aren’t candles good enough”.

How long do we need to waffle on about this before it actually gets started, delay this delay that every few weeks.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 25-10-2019 01:58AM

Here are the proposed broadband connection points by county:

Business Park Church Community Centre Local Business Public Building Public Space School Sports Club Tourism Grand Total
CARLOW 2 2 2 2 8
CAVAN 9 1 1 1 12
CLARE 1 1 6 2 10
CORK 22 1 2 25
DONEGAL 5 3 1 3 12
DUBLIN 3 1 2 2 1 9
GALWAY 7 1 1 14 23
KERRY 1 5 3 3 12
KILDARE 2 2 1 1 4 1 11
KILKENNY 1 4 5 1 11
LAOIS 2 1 8 11
LEITRIM 9 1 2 1 13
LIMERICK 2 8 1 11
LONGFORD 5 1 5 1 12
LOUTH 2 3 4 9
MAYO 1 9 1 1 12
MEATH 8 4 12
MONAGHAN 9 1 2 1 13
OFFALY 4 2 4 1 11
ROSCOMMON 8 1 2 1 12
SLIGO 3 9 12
TIPPERARY 8 2 1 11
WATERFORD 6 5 11
WESTMEATH 5 5 2 12
WEXFORD 5 1 1 4 1 12
WICKLOW 2 3 1 1 5 12
Grand Total 1 2 145 13 13 9 87 30 19 319

ArrBee · 25-10-2019 10:24AM

I wonder how these "connection points" are likely to work....?

I know its about publishing a quick win etc, but I can't imagine them being much practical use for people outside of the location of the connection.
Is there a need that I am not seeing here, beyond the government need to have a "good news" story early in the roll out?

Pique · 25-10-2019 11:06AM

ArrBee wrote:

I wonder how these "connection points" are likely to work....?

Same here? Are they part of a planned infrastructure to branch off from to the houses in that area like exchanges?

ArrBee · 25-10-2019 11:28AM

Pique wrote: »

Same here? Are they part of a planned infrastructure to branch off from to the houses in that area like exchanges?

My understanding so far is that they are community hubs that will receive NBI product 1st so that there is usable rural internet delivered "somewhere" quickly.

I think I remember seeing part of the rationale as being that in a "centralised" place it would be usable by many. as opposed to connecting the 1st house on the road only given benefit to that 1 house.

Sounds reasonable on paper. but I wonder how practical it is hence my question "am I missing something?"

Messer1 · 25-10-2019 12:26PM

ArrBee wrote: »

Sounds reasonable on paper. but I wonder how practical it is hence my question "am I missing something?"

NBP intends to deploy wireless to provide broadband to 350 key strategic community points within the first twelve months following signing of the NBP contract. A spokesman for a consortium member told the Sunday Business Post (8th September 2019) that “this is wireless, which is kind of funny to be starting the NBP by rolling out wireless points, but it’s bringing broadband connectivity to parts of the country that haven’t had it. As fibre gets rolled out, these will be removed”.

ArrBee · 25-10-2019 12:49PM

Messer1 wrote: »

NBP intends to deploy wireless to provide broadband to 350 key strategic community points within the first twelve months following signing of the NBP contract. A spokesman for a consortium member told the Sunday Business Post (8th September 2019) that “this is wireless, which is kind of funny to be starting the NBP by rolling out wireless points, but it’s bringing broadband connectivity to parts of the country that haven’t had it. As fibre gets rolled out, these will be removed”.

Thanks for the clarification.

My primary question remains valid though. "how useful is a community connection?"
I can't imagine desks being set up to facilitate remote working etc.

user1842 · 25-10-2019 01:22PM

Messer1 wrote: »

NBP intends to deploy wireless to provide broadband to 350 key strategic community points within the first twelve months following signing of the NBP contract.

Please say it is not going to take them 12 months to bring wireless to 319 properties.

Orebro · 25-10-2019 01:27PM

ArrBee wrote: »

Thanks for the clarification.

My primary question remains valid though. "how useful is a community connection?"
I can't imagine desks being set up to facilitate remote working etc.

I'd say thats exactly what is planned. There are kids right now in this country that have to go to local shopping centre carparks or the like with their parents to get onto a wifi connection to do some school work. Absolutely ridiculous. And yet there are still some on here that don't want broadband delivered so they can do this at home, because nothing goes on in this country outside of the M50 as we all know.

Lets get the deal signed and close this bloody thread!

(Just waiting for the Elon Musk satellite brigade to arrive now).

ussjtrunks · 25-10-2019 01:39PM

I think the community idea is great but why are they delivering these through wireless instead of a fiber cable?

It could be brilliant for children who have god awful internet right now

tsue921i8wljb3 · 25-10-2019 02:20PM

ussjtrunks wrote: »

I think the community idea is great but why are they delivering these through wireless instead of a fiber cable?

It could be brilliant for children who have god awful internet right now

Because of the fact that NBI have decided to build a separate fibre access network to eir it is likely quicker to reach these premises by wireless rather than wait for NBI fibre to pass. Some of them though are literally metres from eir fibre cable so it kind of highlights how bizarre this project has become.

In relation to other queries I believe some locations, though not all, will have desks to facilitate remote working.

ArrBee · 25-10-2019 02:32PM

Orebro wrote: »

I'd say thats exactly what is planned. There are kids right now in this country that have to go to local shopping centre carparks or the like with their parents to get onto a wifi connection to do some school work. Absolutely ridiculous. And yet there are still some on here that don't want broadband delivered so they can do this at home, because nothing goes on in this country outside of the M50 as we all know.

Lets get the deal signed and close this bloody thread!

(Just waiting for the Elon Musk satellite brigade to arrive now).

Oh, I understand and agree with the need for the NBP. But I do still question the practicalities of providing access to people at the sites listed.
It's not sufficient to have internet available at these locations if they are closed up or there is no space for people to use it.
otherwise it's not much better than "driving to the local shopping center" as you were saying.

theguzman · 25-10-2019 02:34PM

Anybody know what towns or villages will have these Broadband hubs? I presume it will be something similar to the Ludgate or Sneem hubs of late?

tsue921i8wljb3 · 25-10-2019 03:08PM

theguzman wrote: »

Anybody know what towns or villages will have these Broadband hubs? I presume it will be something similar to the Ludgate or Sneem hubs of late?

Locations are not being published so as not to jeopardise any negotiations that may be ongoing around sites.

NBP part II

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