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Sex education in schools!

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    #152
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,949 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Geuze wrote:
    Has our society fallen so low that we would devote time in schools to such discussion?


    Well we could just continue as we are by largely ignoring it, while kids jack themselves up on coke and alcohol, and then try figure out the world of sex


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    #153
    GreenandRed
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭GreenandRed


    There's no point in discussing consent in schools without also talking about the 'get drunk' culture many teens and adults have in Ireland.


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    #154
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,614 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Grayson wrote: »
    I don't see why. Most parents never had formal sex and relationship education. The fact that they managed to reproduce hardly qualifies them to teach their kids about it.

    besides, no-one likes hearing their parents talk about sex.


    Unfortunately for little Johnny he's going to have to learn a ton of stuff from me that I am no expert in.

    First they came for the socialists...



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    #155
    GreenandRed
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭GreenandRed


    Feisar wrote: »
    Unfortunately for little Johnny he's going to have to learn a ton of stuff from me that I am no expert in.


    He might feel uncomfortable hearing from you and you'll probably not feel so comfortable either, but better than hearing from lads in school bragging about stuff they didn't do and know even less about.


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    #156
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,235 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Geuze wrote: »
    All children do not know these terms.

    Even if some do, we should not be introducing all children to such obscenity.

    The fact that they may come across these terms when they are older is not a reason to introduce these terms to second-level children.

    Obscenity :rolleyes: they have hardcore porn on tap in their pocket, that's just a fact.

    These "children" you're talking about could be 18. Some are even 19 now before their Leaving Cert.

    These terms were not "introduced" they were already known to the pupils. And you can be damn sure if they're willing to say it out loud in front of the whole class they're willing to say it in the schoolyard.

    You can't wrap your kids up in cotton wool, and even if you could you'd be doing them a disservice because when they do enter the adult world they wouldn't have a clue.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #157
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,168 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Grayson wrote: »
    I don't see why. Most parents never had formal sex and relationship education. The fact that they managed to reproduce hardly qualifies them to teach their kids about it.

    besides, no-one likes hearing their parents talk about sex.

    Don't care where it comes from, but it does need to happen.

    But the fact that you think sex is merely about reproducing and becoming parents, and the idea that all parenthood is intentional kind of gives me the impression that you don't know exactly what we're talking about here - and that's before we get to the issues of teenage pregnancy and contraception.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #158
    Goodshape
    Registered Users Posts: 8,488 ✭✭✭Goodshape


    Wow, this thread. No wonder we're so messed up and repressed as a society when it comes to sex and sexuality.

    Personally (I'm 36) I don't really remember receiving any sex education outside of a chapter in the biology book in science class and a short bit of "sex causes babies or disease" talk. I'd hope that has changed significantly. Took me 20+ years to realise there wasn't something intrinsically wrong with my thoughts and feelings.


    Differing sexual preferences, and sexual orientation, are facts which should be taught to children. That's not ideology or a "liberal point of view" – conservatives are just as human and varied as the rest of us. Parents can teach you all about the sins and evils of it if they choose to, but the facts are facts. People are different and sexual attraction can be different.

    That's an absolute base level of education as far as I'm concerned. I'd also like to see education on the differences between porn and sex. Why people have sex (pleasure as well as reproduction). How sex is treated in different cultures and societies. Sexual health and contraception options (from condoms, to PrEP, to the 'morning after pill' and what to do in emergencies). Etc.


    Seriously disheartening to see anyone advocating for a "sex makes babies [full-stop]" approach. Wouldn't have expected such resistance to decent sex ed in 2019.


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    #159
    FunLover18
    Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    Geuze wrote: »
    All children do not know these terms.

    Even if some do, we should not be introducing all children to such obscenity.

    The fact that they may come across these terms when they are older is not a reason to introduce these terms to second-level children.

    A general statement about pornography - ok, fair enough.

    But this level of detail - no way.

    Anyways, find me the teacher who will "teach" these terms???

    I never said all children know these terms but they're going to learn them and I'd much rather that they'd learn them in a safe environment where they can ask questions rather than down the back of the bus which is where I saw my first porn on a flip screen phone. That was in the 2000s when phones had very limited web access and zero apps. I don't even want to imagine what kids have access to now. And again the teacher didn't teach them these terms, they went through the alphabet and get the kids to suggest a porn or sex term for each letter. Everything on that white board was suggested by a child in the room.


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    #160
    Harvey Weinstein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 536 ✭✭✭Harvey Weinstein


    Geuze wrote: »
    All children do not know these terms.

    Even if some do, we should not be introducing all children to such obscenity.

    The fact that they may come across these terms when they are older is not a reason to introduce these terms to second-level children.

    A general statement about pornography - ok, fair enough.

    But this level of detail - no way.

    Anyways, find me the teacher who will "teach" these terms???

    They're going to bring in 'experts' from outside to teach. Ordinary teachers will not be doing it.


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    #161
    Harvey Weinstein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 536 ✭✭✭Harvey Weinstein


    FunLover18 wrote: »
    She didn't teach them these terms, these are terms the children already know, that's the point she's trying to make. This why we need decent Sex Ed because children are already getting a terrible one from the porn industry.

    Howe do you know the kids knew these terms..were you there?


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    #162
    Harvey Weinstein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 536 ✭✭✭Harvey Weinstein


    What this issue, and other issues show is that many Irish people have failed utterly in extracating themselves from the religious mindset. Far from casting off the religious mentality they have simply gone to the other extreme and are pursuing these liberal ideologies with the zeal and fervour of religious extremists....they haven't gone away you know.
    Its a testament to how weak minded they are.

    Personally I view these people as far worse than any Catholic extremist..far worse.


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    #163
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,168 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Harvey Weinstein wrote: »
    What this issue, and other issues show is that many Irish people have failed utterly in extracating themselves from the religious mindset. Far from casting off the religious mentality they have simply gone to the other extreme and are pursuing these liberal ideologies with the zeal and fervour of religious extremists....they haven't gone away you know.
    Its a testament to how weak minded they are.

    Personally I view these people as far worse than any Catholic extremist..far worse.

    That's a kind of all-purpose blanket comment that covers everything without actually saying anything specific about the topic at hand.

    Kind of AH equivalent of 'that would be an ecumenical matter'.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #164
    Harvey Weinstein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 536 ✭✭✭Harvey Weinstein


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    That's a kind of all-purpose blanket comment that covers everything without actually saying anything specific about the topic at hand.

    Kind of AH equivalent of 'that would be an ecumenical matter'.

    I think you know exactly what its saying..


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    #165
    victor8600
    Registered Users Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭victor8600


    Harvey Weinstein wrote: »
    I think you know exactly what its saying..

    Not exactly. Care to give at least a single concrete example?


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    #166
    Harvey Weinstein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 536 ✭✭✭Harvey Weinstein


    victor8600 wrote: »
    Not exactly. Care to give at least a single concrete example?

    There are none so blind as those who will not see...


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    #167
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,614 ✭✭✭Feisar


    GreenandRed wrote: »
    He might feel uncomfortable hearing from you and you'll probably not feel so comfortable either, but better than hearing from lads in school bragging about stuff they didn't do and know even less about.

    Sure I'll do my best, my wife gives out about my lack of filter so hopefully that comes in handy.

    First they came for the socialists...



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    #168
    Goodshape
    Registered Users Posts: 8,488 ✭✭✭Goodshape


    Harvey Weinstein wrote: »
    What this issue, and other issues show is that many Irish people have failed utterly in extracating themselves from the religious mindset. Far from casting off the religious mentality they have simply gone to the other extreme and are pursuing these liberal ideologies with the zeal and fervour of religious extremists....they haven't gone away you know.
    Its a testament to how weak minded they are.

    Personally I view these people as far worse than any Catholic extremist..far worse.

    Sex and sexuality is a fact of life. These are not "liberal ideologies".


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    #169
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,168 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Harvey Weinstein wrote: »
    There are none so blind as those who will not see...

    There are none so dumb as those who will not talk.

    When the seagull follows the trawler, it is because he knows the fish is about to be thrown.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #170
    Harvey Weinstein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 536 ✭✭✭Harvey Weinstein


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    There are none so dumb as those who will not talk.

    And yes, I know exactly what it's saying - nothing.

    It is saying that you are an extremist, which is what you are...an extremist.


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    #171
    FunLover18
    Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    Harvey Weinstein wrote: »
    Howe do you know the kids knew these terms..were you there?

    She literally says in the tweet that the exercise is to gain insight in to their level of knowledge. You don't do that by teaching them, it's a fairly common practice amongst sex educators to gauge what they're dealing with and it also makes the kids feel more comfortable, that they can use these terms and not get in trouble. The Second Captains did an excellent podcast with Richie Sadlier and Sinead O Carroll who run a similar programme in schools, it's a fascinating listen. Here's a link https://www.secondcaptains.com/2018/03/29/episode-1124-the-belfast-rape-trial-sexual-consent-and-a-toxic-dressingroom-culture/.


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    #172
    Harvey Weinstein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 536 ✭✭✭Harvey Weinstein


    One good thing out of all of this is that it is absolutely guaranteed to annihilate the alliance between the progressive left and the Muslim community in Ireland.


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    #173
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,949 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Harvey Weinstein wrote: »
    One good thing out of all of this is that it is absolutely guaranteed to annihilate the alliance between the progressive left and the Muslim community in Ireland.

    say wha!


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    #174
    Harvey Weinstein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 536 ✭✭✭Harvey Weinstein


    The Catholic Church deemed parents as not fit to provide sex education and that their version should be compulsory..the progressive left also feel parents are not fit to provide sex education and that their version should be compulsory...both extremist positions.


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    #175
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,949 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Harvey Weinstein wrote: »
    The Catholic Church deemed parents as not fit to provide sex education and that their version should be compulsory..the progressive left also feel parents are not fit to provide sex education and that their version should be compulsory...both extremist positions.

    i would class myself as progressive left, and i dont believe that, so i dunno


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    #176
    Harvey Weinstein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 536 ✭✭✭Harvey Weinstein


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    say wha!

    Haven't you heard? You might want to take a look across the water at our neighbours and see how the Muslim community are reacting to this type of sex education.


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    #177
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,949 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Harvey Weinstein wrote: »
    Haven't you heard? You might want to take a look across the water at our neighbours and see how the Muslim community are reacting to this type of sex education. Do keep up

    ah ive other things on my mind, i ll look, if im bothered


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    #178
    Harvey Weinstein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 536 ✭✭✭Harvey Weinstein


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    i would class myself as progressive left, and i dont believe that, so i dunno

    Then you would agree that any parents wishing to exclude their children from these classes should be free to do so?

    Great to hear..theres hope yet.


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    #179
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,949 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Harvey Weinstein wrote: »
    Then you would agree that any parents wishing to exclude their children from these classes should be free to do so?

    Great to hear..theres hope yet.

    oh absolutely, it truly does come down to the parents wishes, i suspect many progressive lefties like myself would actually believe this also


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    #180
    FunLover18
    Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    Harvey Weinstein wrote: »
    Then you would agree that any parents wishing to exclude their children from these classes should be free to do so?

    Great to hear..theres hope yet.

    Where has it been suggested that it should be mandatory??


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    #181
    Harvey Weinstein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 536 ✭✭✭Harvey Weinstein


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    oh absolutely, it truly does come down to the parents wishes, i suspect many progressive lefties like myself would actually believe this also

    Ok cool, thats good to hear.


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