All Blacks v Irish property developers

terrydel · 23-10-2019 2:12pm

Another reason we are 'good' at rugby, apart from the fact its a tiny pool in world terms and relatively easy to get to the top of, is that the game here is largely centered on well-to-do elitist private schools. And these schools use the sport as a form of propaganda to make themselves look good. The players are given professional level coaching, facilities, advice from a very young age, it is the closest thing to in this country to the American college sports system. This gives them the best of everything from a very early age, and the schools facilitate the time to train and focus on rugby at least to the same degree as the academic side, no other sport has these advantages in this country.
If our soccer players had this kind of access to elite and professional level coaching, facilities etc from the same age as the rugby lot do, they'd be in a far better place in the world pecking order, tho probably not as near to the top as the rugby lot allegedly are, because unlike rugby, the soccer pyramid is far higher and harder to scale, because it is the number one sport in dozens of nations, rugby is the number one sport in possibly 1-2 nations at most.

GreenandRed · 23-10-2019 2:13pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

I've been going to rugby internationals (here and abroad) for more than 40 years. I've also been to a few soccer matches. Granted, Irish soccer fans are generally speaking a sound bunch, out for the craic and not prone to nastiness.

The same cannot be said for many of the other "stakeholders" such as English football fans (in particular) but also those of other countries. There's a reason soccer fans have to be escorted by police from train stations and coralled into tightly segregated enclosures whereas rugby fans (and GAA fans, let's be fair) can mingle before during and after the game with impunity and no threat to the local populace.

Here's the acid test: when and where was rugby (or the GAA's) equivalent of The Heysel riot, the Hillsborough catastrophe, the Lansdowne Road riot, the (sic) Hampden riot........I could go on.

Better people. It's the only explanation.

Rugby Union has upper class origins, still in Ireland a large upper class support base,and soccer is a working class game and maybe 8 or 9 times more soccer supporters worldwide than rugby union. A bit easier to be a better person when you're family has some some money compared to working class kids and the route to a better education is easier. Heysel and Landsdowne riots were caused by idiots. Hillsborough was caused by woeful planning and bad policing.Your 'better people' comment would compound the mistaken belief that every rugby union person in Ireland is a snob. Plenty of rugby clubs, players, supporters around the country. And plenty of them participate in Rugby Union, GAA, Soccer and other sports.

terrydel · 23-10-2019 2:16pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

I've been going to rugby internationals (here and abroad) for more than 40 years. I've also been to a few soccer matches. Granted, Irish soccer fans are generally speaking a sound bunch, out for the craic and not prone to nastiness.

The same cannot be said for many of the other "stakeholders" such as English football fans (in particular) but also those of other countries. There's a reason soccer fans have to be escorted by police from train stations and coralled into tightly segregated enclosures whereas rugby fans (and GAA fans, let's be fair) can mingle before during and after the game with impunity and no threat to the local populace.

Here's the acid test: when and where was rugby (or the GAA's) equivalent of The Heysel riot, the Hillsborough catastrophe, the Lansdowne Road riot, the (sic) Hampden riot........I could go on.

Better people. It's the only explanation.

I've been to well in excess of 100 soccer games in the uk and seen only one incident, a small argument between 3 lads were a punch or two was thrown.
I've been to numerous games in other European countries too and seen nothing.
Better people my arse.

terrydel · 23-10-2019 2:18pm

GreenandRed wrote: »

Rugby Union has upper class origins, still in Ireland a large upper class support base,and soccer is a working class game and maybe 8 or 9 times more soccer supporters worldwide than rugby union. A bit easier to be a better person when you're family has some some money compared to working class kids and the route to a better education is easier. Heysel and Landsdowne riots were caused by idiots. Hillsborough was caused by woeful planning and bad policing.Your 'better people' comment would compound the mistaken belief that every rugby union person in Ireland is a snob. Plenty of rugby clubs, players, supporters around the country. And plenty of them participate in Rugby Union, GAA, Soccer and other sports.

I'd say its more like 80 or 90 times than 8 or 9.
You can go anywhere in the world and be practically guaranteed to meet someone, not speak eachothers language and still communicate about football. As a sport it is unique in that regard. Rugby is a drop in the sporting ocean, the preserve of in the main the professional classes who like to keep things for themselves. They are welcome to it.

PhilOssophy · 23-10-2019 4:26pm

terrydel wrote: »

Ah the typical irish response to anyone who doesn't climb on the bandwagon, call them a begrudger. Don't ever change.

No, I don't care who jumps on the bandwagon or whatever. I don't take any delight in any Irish person's failure, be that at rugby/golf/hockey/tennis/football/show jumping/whatever. Live n let live, enjoy what you want to enjoy and let others do the same. If it doesn't float your boat, don't worry.

FrancieBrady · 23-10-2019 5:09pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

No, I don't care who jumps on the bandwagon or whatever. I don't take any delight in any Irish person's failure, be that at rugby/golf/hockey/tennis/football/show jumping/whatever. Live n let live, enjoy what you want to enjoy and let others do the same. If it doesn't float your boat, don't worry.

Has Terry been dropped from Team Of Us as well as the others?

Muahahaha · 23-10-2019 6:18pm

Andreas77 wrote: »

Rugby is far more difficult game to succeed in than football because it requires more in physicality, more in discipline, more in intelligence, and more in bravery.
Reason many football matches are so close in score is not because of high levels of skill, but because beautiful game is fairly easy to be decent at, whereas being good at rugby is far more difficult. .

sorry not buying that, there is far more skill in a game where your feet are the primary way you play it. If you took a Premier League striker and asked him to make 10 conversion attempts from 30 yard his success rate would be far higher than if you took a professional rugby player and asked him to hit the top corner of the net from 30 yards. We all grow up using our hands, its natural to us. Using your feet requires much more skill and a deftness of touch. Im not saying rugby isnt a skillful game because it is but football is a harder skill to master.

terrydel wrote: »

Sorry mate, but you are talking absolute bollox.
Complete and utter bollox.
The simple fact of the numbers playing soccer mean reaching the elite level is harder. The argument ends there.

As a friend said to me recently when you think about it there are 8 billion in the world of which about half are male. Virtually every one of them will have at some stage played a game of football, even it is was just kicking an empty can of coke between school jumpers as goal posts. Out of those 4 billion who've played the game only around 400 ever make it into the Premier League each season. Its insanely difficult to reach the elite level of football and it has gotten harder and harder over the years as evidenced by Ireland only having a couple of international players now playing in the Premier League whereas 20 years ago more or less all our international players were playing at the very top level.

Mike9832 · 23-10-2019 6:51pm

terrydel wrote: »

To reach the top in soccer is simply far, far harder than it is in rugby.
Our achievements in the soccer world cup far outweigh those in the rugby world cup in terms of difficulty and achievement.

Not enough far's

Absurd even comparing them

I'd compare it with Cricket

Duckworth_Luas · 23-10-2019 7:01pm

I guess when rugby football made the jump from "foreign sport", like soccer, to a truly national sport, like Gaelic football and hurling, it was always setting itself up for criticism from the insecure soccer people.

terrydel · 23-10-2019 7:13pm

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

I guess when rugby football made the jump from "foreign sport", like soccer, to a truly national sport, like Gaelic football and hurling, it was always setting itself up for criticism from the insecure soccer people.

In terms of participation it's 12th on the list in this country, so hardly truly national I'd wager.
Soccer has nothing to be insecure about, it's a global phenomenon and transcends the notion of a mere sport. It is practically an international language in many ways. Put simply, it matters. Rugby doesn't.

Duckworth_Luas · 23-10-2019 7:28pm

terrydel wrote: »

In terms of participation it's 12th on the list in this country, so hardly truly national I'd wager.
Soccer has nothing to be insecure about, it's a global phenomenon and transcends the notion of a mere sport. It is practically an international language in many ways. Put simply, it matters. Rugby doesn't.

Vomit! Do insecure soccer people really believe this stuff.

Everybody knows that soccer massage their participation rates. They include 5-a -side nonsense, women, primary school participants in kickabouts.

Rugby football is a national sport, along with Gaelic football and hurling. Soccer is something people watch on TV on miserable Wednesday evenings in Winter.

terrydel · 23-10-2019 7:32pm

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Vomit! Do insecure soccer people really believe this stuff.

Everybody knows that soccer massage their participation rates. They include 5-a -side nonsense, women, primary school participants in kickabouts.

Rugby football is a national sport, along with Gaelic football and hurling. Soccer is something people watch on TV on miserable Wednesday evenings in Winter.

You lost me when you disregarded the inclusion of 50% of the population. Back to your private school so you can be educated into the 21st century.

GreenandRed · 23-10-2019 7:37pm

terrydel wrote: »

In terms of participation it's 12th on the list in this country, so hardly truly national I'd wager.
Soccer has nothing to be insecure about, it's a global phenomenon and transcends the notion of a mere sport. It is practically an international language in many ways. Put simply, it matters. Rugby doesn't.

Soccer is competing with Netflix as 'entertainment'. The art of defending is dying as football games want to be entertaining. Man City, deemed by some 'pundits' as great team haven't a decent defender. Always good at grassroots level as are rugby, hurling, gaelic football. But when Amazon Prime tell loyal supporters what time games will be on on December 26th a day with little or no public transport you realise quickly that top level football is about greed, supporters don't matter. Pity a few quid won't be dropped over here and let the League of Ireland, not the FAI, develop the League. Proper comitted players and supporters.

Duckworth_Luas · 23-10-2019 7:40pm

terrydel wrote: »

You lost me when you disregarded the inclusion of 50% of the population. Back to your private school so you can be educated into the 21st century.

GAA can't lie about their participation rates as females are completely different organisations, unlike soccer, who lie about their participation rates

Rugby football dosen't lie either.

GreenandRed · 23-10-2019 8:13pm

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Vomit! Do insecure soccer people really believe this stuff.

Everybody knows that soccer massage their participation rates. They include 5-a -side nonsense, women, primary school participants in kickabouts.

Rugby football is a national sport, along with Gaelic football and hurling. Soccer is something people watch on TV on miserable Wednesday evenings in Winter.

You seem to know nothing about soccer in Ireland or, indeed, any other sport. Trolling isn't a sport.

Duckworth_Luas · 23-10-2019 8:23pm

GreenandRed wrote: »

You seem to know nothing about soccer in Ireland or, indeed, any other sport. Trolling isn't a sport.

Lets be honest, nobody cares about soccer in Ireland. Unlike rugby and GAA it's not a national sport. Probably a regional game.

GreenandRed · 23-10-2019 8:29pm

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Lets be honest, nobody cares about soccer in Ireland. Unlike rugby and GAA it's not a national sport. Probably a regional game.

A Junior C troll. Try a new keyboard to strive for the Junior Bs.

Duckworth_Luas · 23-10-2019 8:34pm

GreenandRed wrote: »

A Junior C troll. Try a new keyboard to strive for the Junior Bs.

Junior B and Junior C is rugby football talk, exactly what I'm talking about. It's in our DNA, unlike soccer.

Iscreamkone · 23-10-2019 8:52pm

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

GAA can't lie about their participation rates as females are completely different organisations, unlike soccer, who lie about their participation rates

Rugby football dosen't lie either.

Rugby football doesn’t lie or cheat

Duckworth_Luas · 23-10-2019 9:07pm

Iscreamkone wrote: »

Rugby football doesn’t lie &#55357;&#56860;ðŸ‘

Soccer are so insecure!

terrydel · 23-10-2019 9:30pm

GreenandRed wrote: »

You seem to know nothing about soccer in Ireland or, indeed, any other sport. Trolling isn't a sport.

He's about as good at it as our rugby 'legends' are at world cups.

Duckworth_Luas · 23-10-2019 9:41pm

terrydel wrote: »

He's about as good at it as our rugby 'legends' are at world cups.

So soccer and rugby football are about the same when it comes to World Cup achievement then.

washman3 · 24-10-2019 12:54am

Luke Plump Gymnasium wrote: »

We're pretty good at showjumping, and women's hockey. Two more good respectable sports.

Again, dont forget Eurovision..!!
We've won it 5 times. Or is it 6.

blinding · 24-10-2019 8:38am

washman3 wrote: »

Again, dont forget Eurovision..!!
We've won it 5 times. Or is it 6.

They are well sick of us now though . Paddy / Biddy got carried away with themselves .

Pauliedragon · 24-10-2019 9:06am

blinding wrote: »

Somebody should start a drinking world cup . I’d be up for the practising and it wouldn’t be all that embarrassing if ya feel flat on your ar$e at it .

There is one its on the 17th March every year.

Dr. Bre · 24-10-2019 9:10am

No surprises that the best sport we are good at is 2 people punching the head off each other.,

s7ryf3925pivug · 24-10-2019 10:14am

Good to see a resurgence of our former national sport of cricket too.

begsbyOnaTrain · 24-10-2019 10:21am

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

So soccer and rugby football are about the same when it comes to World Cup achievement then.

Well soccer has a World Cup. Whereas rugby has a "World" Cup.

Bobblehats · 24-10-2019 11:37am

It’s not really the “world in union” the real union is the 8 nations that traditionally play rugby.

That same 8 that effectively only really play each other in any meaningful competition / on an annual basis. Of these Ireland is still the only nation that has not made it beyond the “last” 8 of the rugby WC

Andreas77 · 24-10-2019 12:05pm

They are insecure because they realise that interest in rugby will only grow in Ireland over next twenty years. There are people who are not traditionally interested in sport that will watch rugby because it is more dramatic, primal, people enjoy to see the players pushed to limit, the physical demands, the exertion, the variety of roles and skills and physical specimens, the combination of brute force and deft hands, players playing on with fractured faces and dislocated hands due to bravery. Rugby is more interesting spectacle for average person, and provides more interesting characters. I remember many French players from last twenty years, madmen, geniuses, brutes. Fact that you mainly play against your neighbors on these islands, and in Europe, only adds to novelty of game. Main thing of interest in football is not the game, but price of players and transfer windows, moaning about penalties, poor snowflakes falling and clutching knee after trip, in which offending player never touched the victim.

Iscreamkone · 24-10-2019 12:10pm

Andreas77 wrote: »

They are insecure because they realise that interest in rugby will only grow in Ireland over next twenty years. There are people who are not traditionally interested in sport that will watch rugby because it is more dramatic, primal, people enjoy to see the players pushed to limit, the physical demands, the exertion, the variety of roles and skills and physical specimens, the combination of brute force and deft hands, players playing on with fractured faces and dislocated hands due to bravery. Rugby is more interesting spectacle for average person, and provides more interesting characters. I remember many French players from last twenty years, madmen, geniuses, brutes. Fact that you mainly play against your neighbors on these islands, and in Europe, only adds to novelty of game. Main thing of interest in football is not the game, but price of players and transfer windows, moaning about penalties, poor snowflakes falling and clutching knee after trip, in which offending player never touched the victim.

You forgot to mention the supreme skill in booting the ball into the crowd unchallanged from a penalty. To be then rewarded with possession at the subsequent lineout. If only Messi or Ronaldo could recreate this wonderful skillset

FrancieBrady · 24-10-2019 12:13pm

Bobblehats wrote: »

It’s not really the “world in union” the real union is the 8 nations that traditionally play rugby.

In these supposedly 'media savvy' days, are people seriously not able to interpret what are basically PR/Advertising slogans??? 'Team Of Us', 'World In Union' etc

'Only the tastiest crumbliest chocolate' does not go into Cadbury Flake.

Shaw's 3 stores in Ireland do not constitute 'Almost Nationwide'

Budwieser is NOT the King of Beers (Carlsberg probably is!) and Gillette is not the best a man can get.

begsbyOnaTrain · 24-10-2019 12:18pm

Andreas77 wrote: »

They are insecure because they realise that interest in rugby will only grow in Ireland over next twenty years. ......

I recall Connacht nearly folding up as a team in the early 2000s. Somehow within a few years, the sport/team grew in popularity by a massive margin.

It wasn't due to some increase in "dramatic" "primal" "brute force" on display by the players... We all know it's to do with the increase of money, the social aspirations and such that changed in the mid to late 2000s.

My one and only trip to a match was in 2010/2011. Connacht versus Leinster. The fans from the east were decked out in head-to-toe banking paraphernalia. Waving their little BoI flags.

ErnestBorgnine · 24-10-2019 12:18pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

In these supposedly 'media savvy' days, are people seriously not able to interpret what are basically PR/Advertising slogans??? 'Team Of Us', 'World In Union' etc

'Only the tastiest crumbliest chocolate' does not go into Cadbury Flake.

Shaw's 3 stores in Ireland do not constitute 'Almost Nationwide'

Budwieser is NOT the King of Beers (Carlsberg probably is!) and Gillette is not the best a man can get.

That's a matter of opinion, and btw it's 'flakiest'.

Iscreamkone · 24-10-2019 12:18pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

In these supposedly 'media savvy' days, are people seriously not able to interpret what are basically PR/Advertising slogans??? 'Team Of Us', 'World In Union' etc

'Only the tastiest crumbliest chocolate' does not go into Cadbury Flake.

Shaw's 3 stores in Ireland do not constitute 'Almost Nationwide'

Budwieser is NOT the King of Beers (Carlsberg probably is!) and Gillette is not the best a man can get.

...and this is NOT rugby country!!!

ArrBee · 24-10-2019 12:20pm

In an effort to keep the current direction of this thread....

What gets me is this nonsense that potatoes are somehow supposed to be really good in Ireland.

If potato farming was a world sport where do you think Ireland would be?
My money is on "not in the medals"

Iscreamkone · 24-10-2019 12:28pm

ArrBee wrote: »

In an effort to keep the current direction of this thread....

What gets me is this nonsense that potatoes are somehow supposed to be really good in Ireland.

If potato farming was a world sport where do you think Ireland would be?
My money is on "not in the medals"

Would I be close if I said... 8th... again?

FrancieBrady · 24-10-2019 12:35pm

Iscreamkone wrote: »

...and this is NOT rugby country!!!

It is if you play, watch or like the sport.

There are people who can go through their entire lives without paying a second's attention to any sport. Get some perspective on life, sport and maybe live and let live a little?

Pauliedragon · 24-10-2019 12:55pm

Most people know a lot of any sports popularity is down to success. I'm late 30s and like a lot of people grew up with Jackie's army and worshipped that like we all did back then. Rugby was a lucky win against Wales in the 5 nations to avoid the wooden spoon. Fast forward after 94 soccer tournaments dried up cause we never qualified interest waned. Rugby then goes pro and slowly begins to build. Other factors kicked in like premier league getting obscenely rich. Instead of teams looking to us for young talent they were searching the world and our young fellas just weren't good enough as we didn't have the structures in place financially to compete. Couple that with still no qualification in soccer and rugby slowly building strong club competitions irish teams starting to do well focus for kids start to move to rugby. It's not a case of rich v poor its one sport wained at the same time the direct competitor internationally flourished. We can all like one sport no sports we all have our preferences in life so why is there constant bickering about which one is better. None is better. Its a choice. My choice can't be better or worse than yours by definition.

Canis Lupus · 24-10-2019 12:57pm

Grown ups arguing over whose sport (that they likely don't even partake in) is better. The state of yez.

jiltloop · 24-10-2019 1:12pm

This has to be one of the most ridiculous arguments I've ever seen on the internet.

Actually slagging a sport and arguing that yours is better than the other one as if you own it or something.

I enjoy both, I watch both, I sometimes watch other sports as well, other times I'd rather watch or do something else. Who bloody cares?!

robbiezero · 24-10-2019 1:28pm

Iscreamkone wrote: »

You forgot to mention the supreme skill in booting the ball into the crowd unchallanged from a penalty. To be then rewarded with possession at the subsequent lineout. If only Messi or Ronaldo could recreate this wonderful skillset

Ireland actually failed to get it into the crowd twice.

Mad_maxx · 24-10-2019 1:30pm

Andreas77 wrote: »

They are insecure because they realise that interest in rugby will only grow in Ireland over next twenty years. There are people who are not traditionally interested in sport that will watch rugby because it is more dramatic, primal, people enjoy to see the players pushed to limit, the physical demands, the exertion, the variety of roles and skills and physical specimens, the combination of brute force and deft hands, players playing on with fractured faces and dislocated hands due to bravery. Rugby is more interesting spectacle for average person, and provides more interesting characters. I remember many French players from last twenty years, madmen, geniuses, brutes. Fact that you mainly play against your neighbors on these islands, and in Europe, only adds to novelty of game. Main thing of interest in football is not the game, but price of players and transfer windows, moaning about penalties, poor snowflakes falling and clutching knee after trip, in which offending player never touched the victim.

I don't feel the hate against rugby but the game is dieing in Australia ( a former powerhouse), the same could happen here, unlikely but globally the sport is not growing at all

The Lost Sheep · 24-10-2019 1:55pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

I don't feel the hate against rugby but the game is dieing in Australia ( a former powerhouse), the same could happen here, unlikely but globally the sport is not growing at all

globally the game is growing. That doesnt mean the countries where rugby has developed extensively recently will be competitive with top sides for a while yet though. Game is struggling in Australia for quite a few reasons. None of which really apply to here though

Mad_maxx · 24-10-2019 2:23pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

globally the game is growing. That doesnt mean the countries where rugby has developed extensively recently will be competitive with top sides for a while yet though. Game is struggling in Australia for quite a few reasons. None of which really apply to here though

Where is it growing?

Iscreamkone · 24-10-2019 2:23pm

robbiezero wrote: »

Ireland actually failed to get it into the crowd twice.

Maybe I've underestimated the skill required so?

Probably not

Galwayguy35 · 24-10-2019 9:10pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

All of a sudden you're an expert:rolleyes:

I didn't hear any booing; I heard the Fields of Athenry being belted out, which I thought was great. I'm fine with the All Blacks doing the haka but they have no right to demand how other people react to it. It's a challenge, it can be met with a response.

The Irish fans singing their hearts out in reply was a great response. We should do it again. Next time.

Did you sing yourself as well, I'm sure you have a fine singing voice.

GreenandRed · 25-10-2019 11:04am

What state of mind can a squad be in going to Japan being told they have to meet South Africa in the quarter finals because they're not confident enough to play the All Blacks? Reminds a bit of ourselves when we get a certain stage in the championship and the draw is made We'll be grand if we don't get Donegal,Kerry, Dublin, Kerry'. Gameplans, injuries, conditions etc are massively important too but subconsciously, and maybe consciously, they were a team going to Japan thinking we're never good enough to win a World Cup, with a bit of luck we'll get to the last 4 which no other Ireland team could do. No point in having good players when they don't all have self-belief.

Muahahaha · 25-10-2019 12:49pm

Luke Plump Gymnasium wrote: »

Good to see a resurgence of our former national sport of cricket too.

I like cricket but in small doses. Just a pity our best player fecked off to play for England and then went on to captain them to winning the Cricket World Cup.

robbiezero wrote: »

Ireland actually failed to get it into the crowd twice.

*shudders* I watched the All Blacks game for a second time out (yes, I like picking at scabs) and the amount of handling errors was just shocking. I think there was around 11 or 12 occasions one of our players didnt even catch the ball or knocked it forward. Like others here the first ever rugby game I saw was a schoolboy ticket to Ireland v Japan in the 1991 World Cup and in almost 30 years of watching Ireland play rugby I've never seen such a shoddy performance as that one put out there last Saturday morning.

blinding · 25-10-2019 1:02pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

I like cricket but in small doses. Just a pity our best player fecked off to play for England and then went on to captain them to winning the Cricket World Cup.

*shudders* I watched the All Blacks game for a second time out (yes, I like picking at scabs) and the amount of handling errors was just shocking. I think there was around 11 or 12 occasions one of our players didnt even catch the ball or knocked it forward. Like others here the first ever rugby game I saw was a schoolboy ticket to Ireland v Japan in the 1991 World Cup and in almost 30 years of watching Ireland play rugby I've never seen such a shoddy performance as that one put out there last Saturday morning.

Any chance the Irish team were doped ?

All Blacks v Irish property developers

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