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Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

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Comments

  • #8312
    Letwin_Larry
    Closed Accounts Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Letwin_Larry


    it looks like Corbyn is now championing the Union and the stance of the DUP.
    the poor guy is all over the shop.


  • #8313
    GM228
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    Enzokk wrote: »
    The Wild Animals in Circuses Act were given a longer time in the House of Commons than this bill. Anyone saying there is enough time for scrutiny is lying to themselves about what is happening here.

    https://twitter.com/jl_owen/status/1186336047975809030?s=20

    +1, that Bill had 5 days in the HoC alone, and 5 days in the HoL, the WA Bill dosn't even have that time in total. Note my post yesterday on the point:-


    GM228 wrote: »
    3 days have been allocated.

    In total there are only 8 sitting days to allow the readings, the committee stage and the report stage in the Commons, then the same in the Lords and then the Parliamentary Ping-Pong session.

    For comparison:-

    The European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 which was only 62 pages of a Bill had 36 days for the above (allocated 12 days in the Commons).

    The European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Act 2017 had 11 days (allocated 5 days in the Commons) for the process - it contained the grand of of 5 sentences in the Bill and still had greater debate.

    Even the 2017 Act had 11 days and it only contained 5 sentences, yes sentences in the Bill.


  • #8314
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Boris Johnson just told the DUP - "if you don't like the arrangements then gather a majority in the assembley to change them".

    So, that'll be the DUP voting against his deal, then.


  • #8315
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Letwin_Larry wrote: »
    it looks like Corbyn is now championing the Union and the stance of the DUP.
    the poor guy is all over the shop.

    No, that is consistent with Labour policy, if Brexit is happening the whole UK should stay in a CU, no difference between NI and Britain.


  • #8316
    Letwin_Larry
    Closed Accounts Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Letwin_Larry


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    So, that'll be the DUP voting against his deal, then.

    i dont think that was ever in doubt.


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  • #8317
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Boris Johnson just told the DUP - "if you don't like the arrangements then gather a majority in the assembley to change them".

    Spot on.

    The DUP don't like democracy either when it does not suit them it seems.
    Quoting the GFA to make their argument is the ultimate irony. "But it says here in this treaty that we didn't sign and are virulently opposed to..."


  • #8318
    PropJoe10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,396 ✭✭✭PropJoe10


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    So, that'll be the DUP voting against his deal, then.

    I think he's taking the risk of ignoring the DUP on the basis that the ERG will vote for the deal. Most of the ERG seem to be on board (going by what they've said over the last few days) but time will tell!


  • #8319
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,206 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    So, that'll be the DUP voting against his deal, then.

    I actually predict they will abstain.

    For the simple reason they won't want to make themselves persona non grata with a Tory party heading for a majority after the next election having sabotaged their Brexit timetable.

    They can't work with Labour after the election after all.


  • #8320
    Letwin_Larry
    Closed Accounts Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Letwin_Larry


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    I actually predict they will abstain.

    For the simple reason they won't want to make themselves persona non grata with a Tory party heading for a majority after the next election having sabotaged their Brexit timetable.

    They can't work with Labour after the election after all.

    i'm betting they'll vote against.
    they are a one trick pony of a party, and anything that impinges/undermines that trick is to be vehemently opposed in their view.

    still will be interesting to see.


  • #8321
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    GM228 wrote: »
    +1, that Bill had 5 days in the HoC alone, and 5 days in the HoL, the WA Bill dosn't even have that time in total. Note my post yesterday on the point:-

    The wild animals and circuses act was in relation to 19 animals. Na na na na na 19!


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  • #8322
    briany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,051 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Letwin_Larry wrote: »
    it looks like Corbyn is now championing the Union and the stance of the DUP.
    the poor guy is all over the shop.

    "We can't support a Brexit that would put a hard border on the island of Ireland"

    "We can't support a Brexit that would put a hard border in the Irish sea"

    Looks like you can't support Brexit, then.


  • #8323
    Tea Shock
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 345 ✭✭Tea Shock


    I don't know how I've missed him but I never seen that Michael Fabricant before.

    I initially thought he was someone wearing a joke Boris wig!

    5d02283e2500004e12e35aa7.jpeg

    Most of the time Johnson is talking while looking around for someone to "give way" to. He clearly would rather be anywhere else!


  • #8324
    farmchoice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭farmchoice


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    I actually predict they will abstain.

    For the simple reason they won't want to make themselves persona non grata with a Tory party heading for a majority after the next election having sabotaged their Brexit timetable.

    They can't work with Labour after the election after all.


    ah come on!! they voted against government on Saturday, they have said the present deal is an existential threat to the union!! not only will they vote against it they are in such a bind they could very well vote for a second ref!!


  • #8325
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,870 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    I actually predict they will abstain.

    For the simple reason they won't want to make themselves persona non grata with a Tory party heading for a majority after the next election having sabotaged their Brexit timetable.

    They can't work with Labour after the election after all.

    The DUP couldn't care less about the Tories. For them the union is sacrosanct and they'll be voting on that basis.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #8326
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    briany wrote: »
    "We can't support a Brexit that would put a hard border on the island of Ireland"

    "We can't support a Brexit that would put a hard border in the Irish sea"

    Looks like you can't support Brexit, then.

    You can support a brexit with a uk wide CU. Maybe just remaining might be the prudent option but you can support it.


  • #8327
    Letwin_Larry
    Closed Accounts Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Letwin_Larry


    briany wrote: »
    "We can't support a Brexit that would put a hard border on the island of Ireland"

    "We can't support a Brexit that would put a hard border in the Irish sea"

    Looks like you can't support Brexit, then.

    and yet they accuse the Leavers of not knowing what they want!

    pot, kettle ..........


  • #8328
    liamtech
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭liamtech


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    No, that is consistent with Labour policy, if Brexit is happening the whole UK should stay in a CU, no difference between NI and Britain.

    I think the UK remaining in the SM/CU is the only practical way to do brexit

    GFA is fine - neither nationalists or unionists priorities have been violated - No Brexit Border in the Irish sea of the 6 counties (of course Unionists dont want it, cause for them it is a tacit admission of the UK not being able to leave the EU fully, because of the nationalists/GFA)

    The objections to this are obviously that its a weak remainer brexit - which lets be honest, it would be - but this is the situation we find ourselves in Brexit is Pointless

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • #8329
    liamtech
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭liamtech


    briany wrote: »
    "We can't support a Brexit that would put a hard border on the island of Ireland"

    "We can't support a Brexit that would put a hard border in the Irish sea"

    Looks like you can't support Brexit, then.

    Exactly but it is a matter of fact

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • #8330
    GM228
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    So Johnson threatening to pull the Bill and call a GE if Parliament does not pass the timetable, hope he realises he can't simply call a GE.


  • #8331
    liamtech
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭liamtech


    So Labor seem to not be whipping on this - do we think tonight's vote will pass then??

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



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  • #8332
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    briany wrote: »
    "We can't support a Brexit that would put a hard border on the island of Ireland"

    "We can't support a Brexit that would put a hard border in the Irish sea"

    Looks like you can't support Brexit, then.

    How many times must Labour's policy be explained? They would keep the whole UK close enough to allow no hard border, and then hold a referendum and Remain.


  • #8333
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    GM228 wrote: »
    So Johnson threatening to pull the Bill and call a GE if Parliament does not pass the timetable, hope he realises he can't simply call a GE.

    Lot of pressure on opposition to grant that election though. If bill goes down, where else can they feasibly go?


  • #8334
    briany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,051 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Tea Shock wrote: »
    I don't know how I've missed him but I never seen that Michael Fabricant before.

    I initially thought he was someone wearing a joke Boris wig!

    5d02283e2500004e12e35aa7.jpeg

    The first time I saw Michael Fabricant, it was like the Conservatives had got a more Borisy Boris. There's a fair few mad English-eccentric heads knocking around the Conservative party, hidden away on the back benches.


  • #8335
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    GM228 wrote: »
    So Johnson threatening to pull the Bill and call a GE if Parliament does not pass the timetable, hope he realises he can't simply call a GE.

    Boris goes for the broad picture all the time, that's just a pesky detail.
    liamtech wrote: »
    So Labor seem to not be whipping on this - do we think tonight's vote will pass then??

    Another sign of how weak and ineffectual the Labour Party are. Full of bluff and bluster but couldn't collectively organise a piss up in a brewery at the moment.


  • #8336
    liamtech
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭liamtech


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    Boris goes for the broad picture all the time, that's just a pesky detail.



    Another sign of how weak and ineffectual the Labour Party are. Full of bluff and bluster but couldn't collectively organise a piss up in a brewery at the moment.

    looks like the votes today may well go for BOJO in this scenario - Those parties opposed to a hard brexit and in favor of a possible second ref - im running out of sympathy for them - they should be able to get the numbers between the SNP Labor and the Lib Dems - but its the usual nonsense - swinson hates corbyn, feeling is mutual - labor defectees berger etc al, hate corbyn etc etc etc - and round we go

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • #8337
    briany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,051 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    How many times must Labour's policy be explained? They would keep the whole UK close enough to allow no hard border, and then hold a referendum and Remain.

    Where, exactly, is this second referendum that Corbyn keeps on 'hinting' he's going to back? Is the amendment coming today, or what? They should get a move on with it.


  • #8338
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    Boris goes for the broad picture all the time, that's just a pesky detail.



    Another sign of how weak and ineffectual the Labour Party are. Full of bluff and bluster but couldn't collectively organise a piss up in a brewery at the moment.

    You are underestimating labour. There was all manner of talk of 20-30 lab rebels on saturday and yet, with no 3 line whip in place, there ended up 6. Just 6! Corbyn doesnt want to see what hapened with tory expulsions and i think thats fair enough. Theres enormous pressure on lab mps at moment and to give them some credit i think it is holding together reasonably well so far.


  • #8339
    Letwin_Larry
    Closed Accounts Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Letwin_Larry


    briany wrote: »
    The first time I saw Michael Fabricant, it was like the Conservatives had got a more Borisy Boris. There's a fair few mad English-eccentric heads knocking around the Conservative party, hidden away on the back benches.

    that's brillant. he looks like BoJo's & Trump's lovechild.


  • #8340
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,206 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    With the bill being pulled if the timetable is not agreed tonight that means Labour MPs in leave constituencies have a big decision to make - back it or lose their seats.

    Labour are desperate to avoid an election at all costs. This will probably help focus minds.


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  • #8341
    farmchoice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭farmchoice


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    With the bill being pulled if the timetable is not agreed tonight that means Labour MPs in leave constituencies have a big decision to make - back it or lose their seats.

    Labour are desperate to avoid an election at all costs. This will probably help focus minds.


    if you were right surely they would have voted against letwin on saturday


This discussion has been closed.
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