Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

Enzokk wrote: »

Because legally the courts see the referendum as advisory, no matter what the politicians say. They could stop Brexit tomorrow and nobody could take them to court to have them implement the result because it was advisory only.

I know, politicians are treating it as binding but legally it isn't, up is down and black is white. That is another reason why Cameron will go down as the worst PM ever, because he made such a hash of the referendum he allowed the chaos of the last 3 years and May and Johnson to be leaders. He owns it all, and the sickening thing is other than very few voices in his own party and UKIP, nobody was even thinking about the EU.

Thank you, that makes sense, in terms of the legality. However there is still the question of why the remain MPs are not challenging the actions of the Government and Leave MPs. They are reacting to events as they unfold, but I don't recall any of them standing up and saying that the whole 'will of the people' argument is nonsense.

If the government had announced that as a result of an opinion poll in the Telegraph they were going to turn the economy of the UK upside down because it was the 'will of the people' I doubt they would have got any traction, but this referendum was much the same thing.

At this stage I do agree that the UK has to go, the situation is toxic, but it would be much better if they could stay. As a (long time away) Brit, I am very sad to see the state they have got themselves into, and I reluctantly can see broadly how they got there.

Igotadose wrote: »

Interesting, but so what? The amendment's been approved. Gina Miller's team has played chess versus seagull checkers played by HMG.

ya a post of no great import i just found it interesting, i suppose it highlights the kind of brains working behind the scenes on this on the remain side.
when the history of this come s to be written, this i feel will be the story.
how against all the odds a collection of sharp legal minds, Millar, grieve, Benn, Cherry and some others managed to thwart Brexit. And how on the other side a collection of ideological MP's got so hamstrung by their position they managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.......and of course the DUP

Igotadose wrote: »

If there'd been some sharp political minds campaigning for Remain, we'd have had this sorted long ago. Once the 2017 GE was done, it was clear to me there was an opportunity for strong Remain leadership to undo the clusterf*ck.

i didn't say sharp political minds i said sharp legal minds. there was a complete absence of shape political minds at the front of the opposition, in fact corbyn and the labour leadership were about as far away from sharp on this subject as you could get.
indeed the shape legal minds i mentioned previously were by and large battling both the government and the opposition most of the time.

edit: apologies i slightly mid read your post you didn't suggest i said sharp political minds, i think we are probably in agreement.

trellheim wrote: »

Since the EU let them have a little bit of compromise, to the DUP mind it stands to reason a little push will get them what they want.

They supported Boris going back for more and ended up worse off.

Will they never learn on a morning the world is moving on without them again on LGBT and Same Sex Marriage rights.

1. NI first - Abortion and same-sex marriage becomes legal at midnight tonight unless the DUP cave and Sinn Fein agree to form an Exec . Thats your background music


2. Commons : ruling on MV - widely held that Bercow wont let it go
3. Commons - PM introduces legislation to implement WA - it will be amendable and thus open to messing

4. EU - Boris has requested an extension - EU holding fire for the next few days to see how it plays they can extend right up until 31 October.

Expect serious messing over the next fortnight

Purgative wrote: »

Just listened to a DUP MP on Pat Kenny. Now I can take or leave Kenny but he seemed really on the ball today.


PK - Surely with a border down the Irish Sea you'd be as well choosing Remain.

DUP - Didn't work so well for Greece and Portugal has really high unemployment.

PK - But we're not Portugal or Greece.

DUP - No we'll see what they come up with.

PK - Go back to the EU? (Incredulous)

DUP - See what they come up with in the UK


FFS more unicorns

Support for the EU is actually very strong in Portugal and Greece. This guy has obviously been reading Daily Telegraph opinion pieces.

VinLieger wrote: »

So they should have another election bringing the count to 2 since they had the referendum and making it the 3rd election fought with Brexit being a core issue but the idea of holding a 2nd referendum is somehow unreasonable? The level of hypocrisy by anyone pushing this farcical argument is just astounding.

The people voted for brexit by the narrowest of margins and then voted for a parliament unable to implement it again by the narrowest of margins, that's a pretty clear message that the people don't know what they really want and should be asked directly again.

And what if remains wins by the narrowest of margins? Do we go again,?

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Thanks! So in short. Nothing has really been resolved. It will probably go into late next year before anything is done?

Quite likely i would think. Like was said, if we cant get to a GE or new referendum soon, it could drag on for ages. Depends on if or when eu pulls the plug, but i suspect they remain too concerned about no deal to take that route anytime soon.

So no quick resolution and just my speculation but if johnson gave up hope of getting his deal through he could just ditch it and put enormous pressure on opposition to facilitate election guarantee this week.

Water John wrote: »

Even Kuenssberg doesn't think Bercow will allow a second WA vote today.

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak

Looks very unlikely for sure but will end up feeding into the gov narrative of parliament frustrating the will of the people again so in a way the tories might see it as win-win territory.

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Looks very unlikely for sure but will end up feeding into the gov narrative of parliament frustrating the will of the people again so in a way the tories might see it as win-win territory.

if SM+CU had been tabled by the Tories it would have been done years ago as Labour would have fallen in with it ,
everyone would have moved on, instead faction fighting and political ambition rules the roost


The narrative of parliament frustrating the will of the people is seductive but wrong